Apollo Hardware Spotted!

reply to post by ArMaP


moon hoax people isn't faded away, nawww

nothing proves nothing..

reply to post by R3KR


A 1080p image with no FOV reference does not indicate any magnification values. Using the metric base 10 ballpark figures of the LROC and HIRISE gives us astounding magnification values. HIRISE is averaged at double the magnification we will simply focus on LROC's magnification value and you can simply double the values for HIRISE.

At 50 km away from a half meter square LROC can image that square if it happens to match up with the square pixel grid of the image, that's a quarter million magnification value. Unfortunately the angle of the image is rarely 90º and image averaging comes into play to lessen the effective image magnification value. Even at 1/4 million, I'm afraid that clear images of recognizable equipment left on the moon by the Apollo missions is seriously compromised. We are not trying to image squares and will rarely be at a 90º angle of such a thing.

The primary mission of LROC is not to image half meter squares placed on the moon obviously, but the images so far posted in this thread have an effective resolution compilation of slightly greater than one meter per pixel, far from satisfying a recognizable outline of equipment. We do get an overview that indicates unnatural signatures.

The 2.5 km wide tiff image is 5,064 pixels wide and the whole swath length of 52,224 pixels indicates the length greater than the 25 km length projected for LROC's single image transfer.

But it's the best thing anyone has going for imaging the moon as the Japanese SELENE moon mapper has an effective resolution of 10 m/pixel. But more importantly the SELENE mapper data can be fed into a terrane mapper that basic 3D computer programs use to create a virtual terrane map of the surface to that resolution, and provide the capability of placing a viewpoint at any location of the data map thus exact locations and altitudes (a man's eye level) can image the viewpoint. The images of a SELENE map viewpoint was taken at the precise location of an Apollo 15 photograph and clear to see, that the computer generated image matched exactly. A technology that did not exist in 1971 for NASA to fake.

Originally posted by Illustronic
.....the computer generated image matched exactly. A technology that did not exist in 1971 for NASA to fake.

Here are some screencaps off the 3d model for Apollo 17 - showing that they could produce an accurate model of the terrain back then:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/45b4957bccb2.jpg[/atsimg]



Yeah .... so you thought we could put a man on the moon but not make a measly model?

We put a man on the moon, we could've faked it. You saying the nation that landed men on the moon couldn't have faked it? That incompetent eh....

reply to post by Exuberant1


And what software did they use back then and where did the terrane data come from?

reply to post by Illustronic


You should research that.


I believe the images I just posted come from Bell Labs and have to do with Apollo 17, but I don't memorize and file away every little detail so I can't say too much more than that. I'm old and forget things.

The artistic/scientific/educational image making efforts at Bell Labs were some of the first to show that electronic digital processing (using the IBM 7094 computer) could be coupled with electronic film recording (using the Stromberg-Carlson 4020 microfilm recorder) could be used to make exciting, high resolution images. With the dozen or so films made between 1963 and 1967, and the many more films after that, they showed that computer animation was a viable activity. Zajac's work, Sinden's films (eg, Force, Mass and Motion) and studies by Noll in the area of stereo pairs (eg, Simulated basilar membrane motion) were some of the earliest contributions to what is now known as scientific visualization.

Turner Whitted arrived at Bell Labs from NC State (PhD - 78), and proceeded to shake the CGI world with an algorithm that could ray-trace a scene in a reasonable amount of time. His film, The Compleat Angler is one of the most mimicked pieces of CGI work ever, as every student that enters the discipline tries to generate a bouncing ray-traced ball sequence. Whitted was also very instrumental in the development of various scan line algorithms, as well as approaches to organizing geometric data for fast rendering. In 1983, Whitted left Bell Labs to establish Numerical Designs, Ltd. in Chapel Hill. NDL was founded with Robert Whitton of Ikonas to develop graphics toolkits for 3D CGI. Key developments of NDL include

Silicon Graphics was founded in 1982.

reply to post by Illustronic


Okay....

The excerpt you posted does not mention Apollo.

You also don't make any point beneath that, it is just another factoid.

Can you please be more clear. Now, what is it you are trying to communicate to me?

I believe these 3D models were based off lunar topography photographs as well as images from the Apollo missions.

More details on the above pics, including figure two with the caption...

View from the LM window

.

next.nasa.gov...

The topographic maps are referenced but I haven't found them yet, still looking.

CAD software started its migration out of research and into commercial use in the 1970s. Just as in the late 1960s most CAD software continued to be developed by internal groups at large automotive and aerospace manufacturers, often working in conjunction with university research groups. Throughout the decade automotive manufacturers such as: Ford (PDGS), General Motors (CADANCE), Mercedes-Benz (SYRCO), Nissan (CAD-I released in 1977) and Toyota (TINCA released in 1973 by Hiromi Araki's team, CADETT in 1979 also by Hiromi Araki) and aerospace manufacturers such as: Lockheed (CADAM), McDonnell-Douglas (CADD) and Northrop (NCAD, which is still in limited use today), all had large internal CAD software development groups working on proprietary programs.

Most CAD software programs were still 2D replacements for drafting, with the main benefits to manufacturers being: i) reduced drawing errors, and, ii) increased reusability of drawings. One of the most famous of those 2D CAD software programs, and one which still exists (in name only) more than 30 years later, was the CADAM (Computer Augmented Drafting and Manufacturing) system originally developed by the Lockheed aircraft company. In 1975 the French aerospace company, Avions Marcel Dassault, purchased a source-code license of CADAM from Lockheed and in 1977 began developing a 3D CAD software program named CATIA (Computer Aided Three Dimensional Interactive Application) which survives to this day as the most commercially successful CAD software program in current use.

So you see even in the aerospace industry true 3D computer aided design wasn't developed into well after the Apollo missions.

Since 1957 the huge cumbersome computer aided design capabilities resided in use mostly in the automotive industry to correct 2D drawing errors (if the company could afford it), then into the 60's to automate repetitive production tasks. Algorithm data translation didn't occur until well into the 70's well after Apollo and the laboratories sited built Apollo spacecrafts.

Moon mapping did not exist until just a couple of years ago. No way NASA could have got mapping data if they even had a computer to translate the data anyway.

Originally posted by Illustronic

So you see even in the aerospace industry true 3D computer aided design wasn't developed into well after the Apollo missions.

Yeah, except we are just talking about these images, which are probably from during the Apollo years (if I remember correctly). Edit: They are from 1972.

So insofar as they relate to your post that used the selene data and Apollo 15 imagery, it shows that the capability did exist to model the views from given positions as is indicated in the images. This would come in handy when faking moon missions. Right?

You mean after all this time they lost it and couldnt find it where they supposidly put it?

What kind of space agency is it?

reply to post by Exuberant1


How do you fake 1969 lunar landscape images. And you are confusing post data from pre data.

reply to post by zookey


You are referring to what, there, skippy?

Originally posted by Illustronic
reply to post by Exuberant1

 

How do you fake 1969 lunar landscape images. And you are confusing post data from pre data.

The images I posted are from 1972.

Apollo 17 took place in December of that year and these images are from before then.

You are confused, that explains why you think I am confused. And the name calling - please stop that.

reply to post by Exuberant1


How does that relate to the mapping verification of the SELENE data of the 1971 Apollo 15 photograph?

reply to post by Illustronic


Are you doing this on purpose?

You think this is a debate and think that you are losing, so now you are pretending to not know things that have already been stated.

But we are just having a discussion about Apollo, and how the landing sites could have been modeled and these models used to trick you into thinking we went to the moon - not a debate, just a discussion. Not need to become defensive.

Why don't you reread my recent posts and see if your question has not already been answered.



*Anyhow, where are the images of the Apollo landers taken by other nations?

All the photo evidence of the Apollo landers on the moon comes from NASA.

There aren't even any soviet images of the landing sites with high enough resolution to either prove or disprove the Apollo landers presence on the moon. The only lunar images with Apollo landers visible in them come from US probes. Anyone who says otherwise is a liar, so keep that in mind - it is a useful tip.

Uh, Let's keep in Civil , Folks.

Originally posted by Illustronic
reply to post by Exuberant1

 

And what software did they use back then and where did the terrane data come from?

are you asking where did the moon soil come from?? in the fake pictures and or the background of hill looking terrane??

Mission Mass (kg) Booster Launched goal Mission result

Lunar Orbiter 1*** 386 Atlas - Agena 10. (August 1966) ...Lunar orbiter Success ...1,160 km X 189 km x 12 deg orbit, 208 m period, 80 day photography mission

Lunar Orbiter 2*** 386 Atlas - Agena 6 (November 1966) ...Lunar orbiter Success ...1,860 km X 52 km x 12 deg orbit, 208 m period, 339 day photography mission

Lunar Orbiter 3*** 3 86 Atlas - Agena 5 (February 1967) ...Lunar orbiter Success ...1,860 km X 52 km x 21 deg orbit, 208 m period, 246 day photography mission

Lunar Orbiter 4*** 386 Atlas - Agena 4 (May 1967 ) ...Lunar orbiter Success ...6,111 km X 2,706 km x 86 deg orbit, 721 m period, 180 day photography mission

Lunar Orbiter 5*** 386 Atlas - Agena 1 (August 1967 ) ...Lunar orbiter Success ...6,023 km X 195 km x 85 deg orbit, 510 m period, 183 day photography mission

IMO
That's alot of photos taken huh?.. .. so now where you ask did they get the idea as how to create a FAKE lanscape like the moon ..
Heres your answer .. they were slick alright yeah they even made lunar orbits around the moon and took pictures lots of pitures .. yep and they scientificaly picked out the fake landing spots ,,

reply to post by NorthStargal52

Or, perhaps they took all of those pictures to look for the best real landing spots.