Prove to me that Dems and Reps are different political parties?

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posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 09:11 PM
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I have tried to spark discussion on this at numerous occasions here at ATS, but this time I'd like to be more direct. I see thread after thread supporting one ideology, or another, as if Americas problems, or the Worlds for that matter, are caused by ignorantly supporting the wrong political party. Some think the Democrats are guilty, while others believe it's the fault of Republicans? Either way, the general conclusion that one of these two parties is the answer seems to be unanimous?

History plainly shows evidence to contradict this argument. The two party fraud is being used successfully time and again despite history, and is the very root of why things never change. These two supposed oppositional ideologies are merely two separate strategies seeking one agenda. Alternate routes to the same destination where, depending upon current political conditions, there always remains a detour to a never ending single goal. If the party in power finds themselves falling out of favor with the people, plan B is right there to continue without a hiccup.

This cannot be denied when looked at historically. The best two things showing this to be true are; total abolition of any relevant, or third party candidates; and consistent, unprecedented events that derail domestic agendas. Failure after failure is seen throughout American politics. Time and again the newly elected has their campaigned hopes cut off by one situation or another, never to be realized. Were it not for some unavoidable happening in the world, be it catastrophe or other, the promised agenda would surely have been met. Again and again, Americans are met with unseen challenges needing their perseverance, while the peoples needs are again replaced with more sacrifice.

The point is, these unseen events that postpone the agenda of our newly elected are actually the real agenda itself. Our greatly needed domestic issues are the agenda of the campaign for election only, never intended to be realized. How can we see it any different?

George W. Bush campaigned on tax breaks for all, though significant benefits were seen by only high income earners. Also, no nation building? We all know how ridiculous this is! One thing he did not run on was taking care of those that supported him financially during his campaign.

The info below shows Bush's immediate, and basically only, action on domestic policy. Rewarding those large contributors by repaying them with tax payers money, nice!


www.georgewalkerbush.net...
Funding for favours: Bush's paybacks Table shows amount paid (in millions of dollars) to the Republican election campaign and that amount as a percentage of each industry's election spending.

Industry | $m | % | The payback

Tobacco | 7.0 | 83% | Killing off federal lawsuits against cigarette manufacturers

Timber | 3.2 | 82% | Restrictions on logging roads scrapped

Oil and gas | 25.4 | 78% | Restrictions on CO2 emissions abandoned; Kyoto scrapped; moves to open Arctic refuge to drilling

Mining | 2.6 | 77% | Scrapping of environmental clean-up rules; arsenic limits in water supply

Banks and credit card companies | 25.6 | 60% | Bankruptcy bill making it easier for credit card companies to collect debts from bankrupt customers

Pharmaceuticals | 17.8 | 68% |

Medicare reform without price controls

Airlines | 4.2 | 61% | Federal barriers to strikes; backpedalling on antitrust legislation


This is one example of what this two headed monster is really trying to do. This is the Dem/Rep agenda that everyone is taking sides with. Arguing with each other when the opposing sides are not Dem vs Rep, but them vs us! This is an undeniable fact whether we like it or not, and exactly why a third party is our only hope for change. If this political party loyalty is this prevalent here at ATS, how strong is this bond outside the walls of supposedly skeptical thinkers? What chance is there to change this illogical thinking amongst the masses when, even in this forum, it's deeply rooted?

We need to stop supporting this system of two parties now! We need to demand a fair system of voting, and insist that a third party candidate be able to enter and compete in our elections. There also needs to be a limit on contributions and where they may come from. Can we really be satisfied with the winners being those that collect the most money? Like it or not, that's what we have now! Does that sound fair to you?

What we need is a cap on campaign funding that's equal, as well as achievable, for all candidates. Where they all begin with equal funds that can be used at each candidates discretion during their races. That coupled with a fail proof voting system should be mandatory and demanded by everyone!

So, I want to hear arguments opposing this theory. Give some reasons behind supporting only Dem/Rep, and why third party is not allowed to fairly compete? Why people like Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich were banned from public debates last election? Why last time the only final contestants were those that received the most contributions, the winner overall being the one that had the most? How can you support this system?

Save the "that's the way it is" or "the system may not be perfect, but it's the best" garbage. I want to know why it is you keep falling for the same failed government and keep coming back for more?

Peace.




posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 09:20 PM
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Because we are addicted to pain and crazy as hell.


Both parties are different in platform issues for the most part. However, they are all the same when they get elected. They take care of their friends, pass legislation that further benefits their friends, and try to get everything they can out of the taxpayers to further cater to their friends and their own self interest.



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 09:31 PM
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Highly doubt that you will find any debate as those who may be willing to attempt to counter your argument are likely not on this site. S&F for denying ignorance but I don't have much more for ya.



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 09:41 PM
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Originally posted by Chemley
Highly doubt that you will find any debate as those who may be willing to attempt to counter your argument are likely not on this site. S&F for denying ignorance but I don't have much more for ya.



Thank you, Chemley.

I thought the same as you, but there are plenty here that support this fraud. You see posts all the time here supporting Obama, or even defending Bush?



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 09:43 PM
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Originally posted by jam321
Because we are addicted to pain and crazy as hell.


Both parties are different in platform issues for the most part. However, they are all the same when they get elected. They take care of their friends, pass legislation that further benefits their friends, and try to get everything they can out of the taxpayers to further cater to their friends and their own self interest.

There is no difference at this point both spend taxpayer's money like mad both have there pet projects they want
.The one and only difference is the far left do have a socialist agenda and believe they should manage peoples lives to make it better. And the repubs believe socialism is bad.

Its kinda funny where we sit right now the clock is ticking the democrats know they have to get everything they ant passed before the end of this year. The republicans know they have to hold out and block until then. When the mid term elections happen Americans will do what we all ways do vote the other party back in. Its almost a necessity we have to create grid lock to prevent one party or the other from doing something stupid.



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 09:45 PM
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Well, the main difference between reps & dems is this...

Republicans = smaller government, less involvement in your daily life, and you are responsible for your own actions, successes and failures

Democrats = bigger government, costing more money, more involvement in your life, telling you what to do, you aren't responsible for anything and they will do as much as possible so you don't have to at the expense of those who take care of themselves.


well, that's kinda how it is SUPPOSED to break down.... (yeah i know, i made the democrats out to be lazy irresponsible #$%'s, but i just said the truth in a different light, yet its still the truth) BUT, we all know that today they are the same party. Neither is really what it says it is. (with a few exceptions) The republicans violate the constitution daily, though they are supposedly for it, just sheep in wolves clothing, fakes, and the democrats are very liberal, and no longer moderate, or central.

Pretty much both sides are running on the same socialist ticket. But we are fortunate to have the illusion of a choice with these two parties.

It's a shame though that the 3d party candidates never make it, because they are snuffed out by the "social republicrats" to ensure a steady trend president after president, and stay on track towards the agenda laid out some time ago, as they steer us into a new world. Without distraction from REAL politicians, who really care about this country and ONLY this country.



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 09:50 PM
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reply to post by Zerbst
 


I had let it go until a couple of years ago. Ran into this guy named "Ron Paul" and thought he had a couple of ideas I could stand with. Hailing from one of the first primary states, I saw first hand how 1 sided this whole mess is. It is a carefully controlled situation, to be sure. Like 2 sides to 1 coin, the coin is still worth the same amount no matter how many times you turn it! Oh, and don't forget, the coins are made from junk metal these days



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 09:53 PM
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Nero blamed everything on the Christians.
Hitler blamed everything on the Jews.
The Republicans blame everything on the Democrats, and the Democrats blame everything on the Republicans.

As long as you can frighten the bejesus out of people, and point a finger at some arbitrary group as being the root of all societies problems, you're going to have a fruitful career in politics.


Btw, I voted Nader. Why didn't anybody else!?



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 09:53 PM
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reply to post by resist2012
 


My issue is that there don't seem to be many R's that are for the smaller government anymore. We have a few to be sure but a "maverick" is lauded when all that ever meant was that he would vote with the D's.



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 09:56 PM
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reply to post by Chemley
 


Actually almost every Republican is for small government. Almost all democrats are, too.

Guess what? We don't have a functioning media -- so you don't know this. You're forced to walk around thinking you're the crazy one for wanting reasonable spending, liberty, and lower taxes.

You're not. Almost everybody wants that. Too bad we don't have a functioning media that represents this nearly universal desire.



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 09:56 PM
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I have been saying this for some time in my personal life..
Dem and Reps are in essence working for 1 main agenda..
And in the public eye, they are said to be 2 different parties..

And that illusion works to serve the greater plan of divided we fall!!

Im always happy to see people who are asking these questions!!
As in my personal truths, They are one in the same.. And only serve to divide the masses and make us to busy fighting with eachother over right VS left ideas.. When at the end of the day its all an illusion!!

I have no proof they are different.. And I support your claim.



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 09:58 PM
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reply to post by Chemley
 




posted on 16-7-2009 at 09:53 PM reply to post by resist2012 My issue is that there don't seem to be many R's that are for the smaller government anymore.

Yeah, its true, I'm not going to deny it, but that's what the actual true republican party stands for. But all these fake republicans and democrats in office now, are all the same. calling themselves this and that. when we all know what they truly are...
(social republicrats
)

or more seriously,
Progressive Globalists.



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 10:43 PM
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reply to post by Zerbst
 


proof? one word "abortion"



posted on Jul, 17 2009 @ 02:20 AM
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reply to post by JulieMills
 

Democrats aren't really pro-choice. You've been lied to apparently by the mainstream media. There are a lot of moderate Democrats in there. They just care about popularity. It's one whole game to these fools.



posted on Jul, 17 2009 @ 02:23 AM
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[edit on 17 Jul 2009 by schrodingers dog]



posted on Jul, 22 2009 @ 10:41 PM
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I could not prove it to you...because they are the same. Only different in name.

We need REAL change and that has to start with the ability of a majority of the citizenry (registered voters) being able to OVERRIDE legislation by majority vote if they deem it unconstitutional or inappropriate. This would, in effect, enact a TRUE democracy in this country and would pave the way for real change.

That would only be a ground floor start, but it would essentially eliminate corporate influence directly on our elected "leaders". Knowing they cannot overtly ignore the best interests, as deemed by the people, they would then be forced to start working outside of the political "box" that they all function in and work FOR the people, knowing that if they fail to do so, they will be overridden anyway and eventually forced out of office.

CHANGE WE REALLY NEED.





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