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Flight 77 where are you?

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posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 03:09 AM
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I have seen each of these cases/people presented here in this forum, yet I have not seen them presented together. I thought I would make this thread and ask for the usual suspects to come forth and do their worst, so to speak. Here we have the testimony (actual legal testimony in some cases) of over a dozen experts in different fields all laying down claims against the OS.

We have expert testimony from on the tower...

I, Robin Dirk Hordon, declare, under the penalty of perjury:
1. I am a former Air Traffic Controller who worked at the Boston ARTCC [Air
Route Traffic Control Center] located in Nashua, NH, and further, worked the specific
airspace in which American Airlines flight Eleven [AA11] went off course and showed
signs of an “in-flight emergency” before being considered a “hijacked aircraft” on
September 11, 2001.
2. As an employee of the FAA [Federal Aviation Administration], in addition to
performing all the skills and requirements of an Air Traffic Controller, I also served for
several years in a management capacity [in an “Area Office”] which is charged with
developing and coordinating airspace and procedural changes, improvements and
modifications, and this included working closely with the U.S. Military aviation
operations.

He goes on to list more credentials before arriving at the conclusion..

37. After analyzing all the radar data available to me from the FAA via the 84th
RADES Radar Squadron, a military facility tasked with monitoring and recording all
radar data fed into it from its various military radar sites, FAA radar sites, and joint use
radar sites, I have concluded that three of the four airliners, AA11, UA175 and UA93
were kept in full and positive radar contact from just after lift off at their departure airports up until their respective crash points as follows:
AA11-Boston to WTC1
UA175-Boston to WTC2
UA93-Newark to Shanksville, PA
38. AA77 was lost to positive radar contact in eastern Ohio, and was NEVER re-
radar identified. The high-speed eastbound primary radar target eventually seen by
Danielle O’Brien at Dulles Tower-Potomac Approach and on a heading towards
Washington, D.C., which then made a large turn into, or over, the Pentagon, has been
PRESUMED to be AA77, but that presumption is based upon unreliable evidence found,
or placed, at the Pentagon crash site, or misread in a reverse-engineered identification
process.


We have experts in the air...

I, and the following listed members of Pilots For 9/11 Truth, completed our analysis
and arrived at conclusions that we published in a press release dated March 26, 2007:
Glen Stanish 15,000+ Total Flight Time American Airlines, ATA, TWA,
Continental Captain Russ Wittenberg (ret) 30,000+ Total Flight Time Former
Pan Am, United United States Air Force (ret) Over 100 Combat Missions Flown
John Lear Son of Bill Lear Founder, creator of the Lear Jet Corporation More
than 40 years of Flying 19,000+ Total Flight Time Captain Jeff Latas USAF
(ret) Captain - JetBlue Airways Ted Muga Naval Aviator - Retired Commander,
USNR Col Robert Bowman USAF (ret) Directed all the “Star Wars” programs
under Presidents Ford and Carter - 101 combat missions
John Panarelli Friend and fellow aviator of John Ogonowski - Capt. AA #11
11,000+ Total Flight Time Eastern Metro, Braniff, Ryan International, Emery
Worldwide, Polar Air Cargo Lt. Colonel Shelton F. Lankford United States
Marine Corps (ret) 10,000+ Total Flight Time 303 Combat Missions
Captain Dan Govatos 10,000+ Total Flight Time Former Chief Pilot of Casino
Express airlines Director of Operations Training at Polar Air George Nelson
Colonel USAF (Ret.) Licensed Commercial Pilot and Aircraft Mechanic Dennis
Spear Army Aviator (ret) 7000+ Total Flight Time Operations Officer, Aviation
Safety Officer Captain Joe H. Ferguson 30,000+ Total Flight Time (ret) USAF
(ret)
10. We concluded that:
(1.) The NTSB Flight Path Animation approach path and altitude does not support
official events.
(2.) All Altitude data shows the aircraft at least 300 feet too high to have struck the light poles.
(3.) The rate of descent data is in direct conflict with the aircraft being able to impact
the light poles and be captured in the Dept of Defense "5 Frames" video of an object
traveling nearly parallel with the Pentagon lawn.
(4.) The record of data stops at least one second prior to official impact time.
(5.) If data trends are continued, the aircraft altitude would have been at least 100
feet too high to have hit the Pentagon.
(6) The NTSB and FBI have been contacted and refuse to comment.
The foregoing is true and correct.
Dated : June 18, 2009
/S/
Robert Balsamo


We have experts on the ground...

I'm George Nelson. I served four years of enlisted service and 30 additional years as a commissioned officer in the Air Force.

Please, let me begin by saying, that I get no pleasure or personal satisfaction whatsoever from speaking out in opposition to the US government's official conclusions, and the 911 Commission's official report, of the tragedy that occurred on September 11th, 2001.

I'm a trained aircraft accident investigator. I completed the University of Southern California's accident investigation course in 1989. I was an aircraft maintenance manager throughout my military career and was assigned additional duties as a member of accident investigations for the Air Force.

In every case of an aircraft loss, an accident investigation was always conducted and a report was issued through command channels, and it made no difference if the loss was due to an obvious accident or if it had been shot down by enemy fire. An investigation was always conducted, and a report was always filed, even if the plane was under 5,000 feet of water and not recoverable.

In the case of all four reported aircraft losses on 9-11, each one was reported to have been carrying commercial passengers aboard scheduled commercial airliners. Federal Aviation regulations in Part 121, governs the operations of all scheduled airlines that operate inside the United States, including foreign airlines, which transit through our airports in commercial operations. In the case of each aircraft loss that occurred on 9-11, the regulations are very clear and unambiguous-- investigations were required, and the reports would have covered the loss circumstances in excruciating detail, including all collateral damage incurred.

I guess there could be a legit reason to forgo an investigation...

Heres an expert in intel analysis...

In reference to Retires 2 Star General Albert Stubblebine...
Bert is a graduate of the U.S. Military Academy (West Point, class of 52) who enjoyed a distinguished 32 year career in the U.S. Army. He retired as the Commanding General of the United States Army Intelligence and Security Command (INSCOM). Prior to this assignment he commanded the US Army Electronics Research and Development Command (ERADCOM). During his active duty career he commanded soldiers at every level. After his retirement he served as the VP for Intelligence Systems with BDM, a major defense contractor. He has brought these experiences to leading-edge medical research and development in collaboration with his wife Rima E. Laibow, M.D.

He is a long-term out-of-the-box thinker who redesigned the U.S. Army?s Intelligence Architecture while serving as the Commanding General of the U.S. Army?s Intelligence School and Center. This intelligence restructuring earned him his place in the Intelligence Hall of Fame.

Among his other accomplishments, he participated in a special task force which defined the requirements of the U.S. Army for future conflict. Many of the innovations he developed helped the U.S. to conduct the First Gulf War effectively and swiftly with a very low casualty rate.


www.youtube.com...

Are all of these people crazy? Apparently only threads involving Dr Jones, Richard Gage, or CIT are worth debunking...




posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 03:36 AM
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your thread title does raise an interesting question.

if 77 didnt crash where it is reported to have crashed, where did it go?

it had to land at some point. but where.

wouldnt there be evidence of a landing at an aiport somewhere?

or was it wrecked deliberately into the sea?

what happened to all the passengers corpses? wouldnt they be in the wreckage in the pentagon?

and if they werent were they killed or hauled off to a secret prison camp?

just thinking out loud...



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 07:29 AM
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I usually don't get into these threads, and this kind of information usually leads me to the assumption that it's nothing short of shotty information meant to totally discredit the whole - deliberate misinformation if you will, spread to sabotage any real investigation.

But his is not my premise in this thread or when it comes to the pentagon as a whole. I've never thought the pictures we were given sufficient or even supporting of their supposed 'official time-line of events'. What do I see...well for some reason I can't help but see the nose of a missile in the video, indeed traveling in a parallel trajectory to the ground, and apparent missile damage at the pentagon.

I don't know why, but the only thing it leads me to is that something more happened that day than just a terrorist attack. All other scenarios and events of that day aside, the pentagon incident seems nothing short of a clever addition to whatever plans were known might occur that day - readiness a the wait for said events.

I can honestly say that the only thing I believe from either side of the story of 9/11 is that the pentagon attack seems like nothing short of taking advantage of the terror attack for a few seconds of paper-shredding. Am I the only one who can see Chaney in full control of the events at the pentagon the entire time? And am I the only one who sees an almost obvious missile or projectile nose in the vid? I certainly do not see the big bulbous nose of a passenger jetliner.

All else, I stay on the fence...even tho I do teeter from time to time.

As for what happened to the plane or passengers of flight 77 - I don't have the slightest clue, but that doesn't lead me away from feeling this advantageous to a lot of people needing paper-shredding sessions.

EDIT: Small addition, spelling and structure.

[edit on 16-7-2009 by lagnar]



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 03:02 PM
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I admit that I don't even want to think about what happened to the people on flight 77. One of the problems I have with debating 911 is that people use that question to "debunk" the evidence that flight 77 did not hot the pentagon. It debunks nothing. It raises a chilling question.



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 03:22 PM
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reply to post by jprophet420
 


Great thread, OP!

Thank you for your research and effort into this madness. I need no convincing, so IMO we need to stop postulating on the "how" and instead begin our focus on the "who", "when" and "where".

This is a good start, you're bringing forth actual names, actual testimony.

Nice job.

[edit on 16-7-2009 by OnTheFelt]



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 10:29 PM
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Are all of these people crazy? Apparently only threads involving Dr Jones, Richard Gage, or CIT are worth debunking...


Are they crazy? No.

However, with some of the names posted....they debunk themselves with the statements they have made in other forums.

Showing me a pilot and telling me he has 5,000 hours flying time...doesnt impress me much. I deal with pilots every day....and maybe 5% of them could have an intelligent discussion about the data recorders on board their aircraft.

George Nelson...makes general statements about crash investigations and tries to show that his opinions are facts in regards to the hijackings that day...especially concerning Flight 77.

Albert Stubblebine....too kooky for words.

John Lear...should stick with flying the airplanes instead of trying to speak authoritatively on HOW they work.




I admit that I don't even want to think about what happened to the people on flight 77.



www.gilroydispatch.com...

"Rescue crews were able to pull Calley's body from Flight 77's wreckage"

[edit on 16-7-2009 by Swampfox46_1999]



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 10:55 PM
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reply to post by Swampfox46_1999
 

Are any one of them LESS qualified in their respective fields than you? Just wondering.



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 11:11 PM
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reply to post by jprophet420
 


Am I a licensed pilot? No. Can I fly an airplane or a helicopter? Yes.

However, when it comes to aviation maintnance none of the people listed there match my qualifications.



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 11:58 PM
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posted by Swampfox46_1999

www.gilroydispatch.com...

"Rescue crews were able to pull Calley's body from Flight 77's wreckage"



Gee, I wonder how they managed to do that when Flight 77 with Suzanne Calley supposedly aboard disappeared up near Ohio, and the replacement decoy aircraft flew Over the Naval Annex and North of the Citgo and high above the Pentagon 1st floor, and nowhere near the light poles and damage area inside the Pentagon?

How could most of the alleged aircraft including the tail and the wings and the fuselage and the landing gear struts and 9 of the wheels and tires and both of the engines and the luggage and the seats all be pulverized and gone gone gone, and some person's body somehow survived?

This must be another invented story by some dishonest journalist attempting to create his own Pulitzer, or some wild addition to the fantasy tale, by the 9-11 Pentagon OFFICIAL STORY script writer.



posted on Jul, 17 2009 @ 01:08 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jul, 17 2009 @ 01:14 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jul, 19 2009 @ 08:55 AM
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Albert Stubblebine....too kooky for words.


Well I guess we can close the thread now that thats done. I was under the impression he was an expert in his field, I am glad you corrected me.
/sarcasm

Seriously, thats the only type of debunking even attempted here, and it doesn't fly.



posted on Jul, 19 2009 @ 10:21 AM
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Originally posted by jprophet420


We have expert testimony from on the tower...
Robin Dirk Hordon




Robin Hordon was fired in 1981 during the Reagan PATCO strike. He chose another career path after that. (promoting Comedy)

Where was he on 911? He certainly was not in the tower in Boston. Heck I was closer to the tower than he was.

I would rather hear the words from those that were in the tower that day. Wouldn't you JP?

Colin Scoggins was the military liaison at Boston ARTCC on the morning of 9/11. He became the lynch pin of the air defense response by providing constant information to the NEADS control center. Perhaps you can do some research on him JP?

Here is a link to an interview with an ATC Employee:

911guide.googlepages.com...

[edit on 19-7-2009 by CameronFox]



posted on Jul, 19 2009 @ 10:39 AM
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I, Robin Dirk Hordon, declare, under the penalty of perjury:
1. I am a former Air Traffic Controller who worked at the Boston ARTCC [Air
Route Traffic Control Center] located in Nashua, NH, and further, worked the specific
airspace in which American Airlines flight Eleven [AA11] went off course and showed
signs of an “in-flight emergency” before being considered a “hijacked aircraft” on
September 11, 2001.
2. As an employee of the FAA [Federal Aviation Administration], in addition to
performing all the skills and requirements of an Air Traffic Controller, I also served for
several years in a management capacity [in an “Area Office”] which is charged with
developing and coordinating airspace and procedural changes, improvements and
modifications, and this included working closely with the U.S. Military aviation
operations.


So you are saying any part of this is not true? Back it up.



posted on Jul, 19 2009 @ 11:02 AM
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reply to post by jprophet420
 


Any statements made by him as to the procedures in place on 9/11/01 would be irrelevant because if he truly was off the job for 20 years, he wouldn't have a clue. And yes, that would be VERY relevant due to the changes in Air Defense procedures from 1981 to 2001.



posted on Jul, 19 2009 @ 11:03 AM
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reply to post by jprophet420
 



Hey, I do not claim I can walk through walls. If you think that isnt a bit kooky....

Have you watched some of the interviews he has given??????



posted on Jul, 19 2009 @ 11:10 AM
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reply to post by Swampfox46_1999
 


His area of expertise cited was photo analysis. Apparently in 1983 airplanes still left evidence. My bad that that has changed since then.


Hey, I do not claim I can walk through walls. If you think that isnt a bit kooky....


So if I say "4+4=8, and btw I can astrally project myself", it means 4+4 does not equal 8?


Have you watched some of the interviews he has given??????


I've heard the ones relevant to 911.



posted on Jul, 19 2009 @ 11:12 AM
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Originally posted by jprophet420

I, Robin Dirk Hordon, declare, under the penalty of perjury:
........


So you are saying any part of this is not true? Back it up.


He was stating his 26(give or take) year old credentials. What do his credentials have to do with what happened on 911. He was not there.

I gave you information regarding those that WERE THERE on 9-11. It's been decades since he stepped foot in the tower.

Again JP, who do you think knows more about what actions / procedures were taken on 9-11 from the Boston tower?

1- Someone who was there in the 1970's

2- Someone that was there on 9/11/2001

Thank you.



posted on Jul, 19 2009 @ 11:23 AM
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Originally posted by jprophet420
m

So if I say "4+4=8, and btw I can astrally project myself", it means 4+4 does not equal 8?




Not an accurate analogy. 4 + 4 = 8 is a mathematical fact. His "opinion" was that the hole was too small for a 757. Does he offer mathematical calculations for this?



posted on Jul, 19 2009 @ 11:30 AM
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Questions

Were there any witnesses in the airport that saw the 77 passengers get on the plane

Did the fbi release airport footage showing 77 passengers boarding the plane
And
Who talked with the security guards that checked the 77 passengers via metal detector



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