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Originally posted by The Matrix Traveller
But you can find the roots of religion back before Plato and Socrates... In China for example we can go back at least 5,000 years and still find today many small temples scattered across China of many different gods.
Oh, we can go back a lot further than five thousand years. Evidence of religion in prehistory.
Religion is at least as old as Homo Sapiens.
Given this knowledge, how do you think it came into being, and why?
51. His disciple said to Him,
“When will the repose of the dead come about,
and when will the New World come?”
He said to them,
“What you look forward to,
has already come,
but you do Not recognise it.”
From Verse 3.
When you come to know yourselves,
then you will become known,
and you will realise, that it is you
who are the sons,
of The Living Father.
If you will not know yourselves,
you dwell in poverty, and it is you,
who are that poverty.”
Originally posted by Wookiep
Clearly, there is evidence of the "word" being around certainly a long time.
My question is, why did the meaning change, and if it wasn't spiritual in nature (perhaps we won't ever know) from the start, who incorperated it into Christianity and why?
Thats part of the great mystery, lets hear your theory Astyanax!
The evidence is not of the word, but of the behaviour. People have been doing religious (what you call 'spiritual' things) for about as long as they have existed. The earliest known religious acts were burials in which grave-goods were buried along with the deceased, showing belief in an afterlife and/or a spirit realm.
The meaning didn't change. Religion changed (though not very much).
We can go into more detail, if you like.
The earliest known religious acts were burials in which grave-goods were buried along with the deceased, showing belief in an afterlife and/or a spirit realm.
When did I state religion was 'spiritual things'?
Originally posted by Halley86
I strongly prefer spirituality to religion. I feel like I've become closer to God through spirituality
Originally posted by Wookiep
It seems you don't feel the defention is relevant in this conversation when in fact, how is it not?
Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
I think it originates during a transitional time when we went from hunter gatherer species living in small family units, to living in larger villages and communities thanks to the wonders of agriculture... religion was used to tie and bind the community and civilization together in order to assure their success... unknowns became gods and later became God though monotheism was barely ever practiced...
If it "originated" without "spirituality" then how is it in-fact just that today? We are not in disagreement that the action of "spiritual things" has been around since time started according to man.
Ok, explain to me how it didn't change in terms of *defenition*? Considering the origin compared to todays defention, it seems it has changed significantly!
I only ask that you please refrain from making an argument that is not in-line whith my inquiry.
* * *
The lore of the sky allowed priests to predict events like eclipses and the movement of the stars, which gave them seemingly awesome power in the eyes of their primative cohorts. Makes perfect sense.
I think religion serves many different purposes... (it) also comforts people, gives a sense of both meaning and mystery, imparts a sense of tradition and dignity, holds societies together, becomes a repository of common tales...
Religion also allows people to participate in something bigger then themselves. This is known primally as the sense of AWE. As in gazing at the sky and feeling tiny in comparison. This knowledge of our own weakness and mortality could crush us, psychologically. Religion allows us to transcend our limited selves in the form of mystical experiences, etc. or simple awe at something like a sunset...to "get outside" the limits of ourselves in some way, at least for a little while. Psychologically, this chance to participate in the Infinite balances the knowledge of our individual weakness and finitude.
* * *
It has to be remembered, there is a Political agenda at work, in the education system of today. This is in all education, also involving Human philosophy, Human Sociology, Human Sciences, and Human Religion.
If we stray outside these Political boundaries today, we are branded, as an outcast and discredited!
Its all a Matter of Interpretation based on our beliefs isn't it ???
Perhaps it would be truer to say you view religion as an unspiritual thing.
It is certainly relevant in order to define what we are talking about. Do you mean organized religion, which is a form of social behaviour with civic and political overtones? In that case, the thread loses much of its interest (for me, at least) because it is a common question and the answers are common knowledge, more or less. Titen-Sxull's post, with which you largely agreed, lays it out clearly enough:
Like you, I prefer to put the word 'spirituality' within quotes.
The first definition on the list is the one that hasn't changed (except in terms of ambit, perhaps; primitive religion was rather more modest in what it sought to explain). The second and fifth definitions were tacked on later as religion became institutionalized, but they did not and cannot alter the first.
I leave it to you to decide whether you wish to hear more from me, or not. In the meantime...
However, there is certainly no universal agenda, no overarching conspiracy. I have
travelled widely, not as a tourist but as a temporary resident of many countries, and I can
attest to this with confidence.
If we stray outside these Political boundaries today, we are branded, as an outcast
This may be your experience. Happily, it has not been mine. Society can be a lever
as well as a mould. Some of us use society to get what we want; that, after all, is what it's
Truth is not a matter of belief or interpretation.
I love finding these (people who love God but are not in a church because of the fallen state of man). You don't belong to something Christ is the head of?
All through the Bible God has 'called' men to lead other men in his ways.
With out a church you're in rebellion and are your own pastor, prophet, and counceller. You obviously have a heart for the lost, so arebringing them to Christ and nuturing them too.
Of course you aren't because then you'd have a chruch - and thats exactly what Christ wanted.
How many have you brought to God who are planted and who are growing God's chrcuh trough your guidnace as a more experienced Christian.
I can tell you because I know. 0!
And before you get all huffy. I was like you once but now I'm planted and thriving and so are those around me
39. Jesus said,
“The Pharisees and the scribes
have taken The Keys of Knowledge
and Hidden Them.
They themselves have NOT entered,
nor have they allowed to enter
those who wish to.
You, however, be as wise as serpents
and as innocent as doves.”
49. Jesus said,
“Blessed are the Solitary
for you will find The Kingdom.
For you are from it,
and to it you will return.”