It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

NZ Mason jailed over sorcery claims

page: 2
4
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 03:18 AM
link   
reply to post by grantbeed
 


So, Grant, are we going to petition?

Petitioning is boring and stessful.

But do we believe that it is worth it?




posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 03:51 AM
link   
reply to post by grantbeed
 


I hope the Lodge fired the Tyler...

He should have guarded that door with his life, stabbing and swinging away with his fake replica sword!


Seriously, biggest case of ignorant bigotry if ever I saw one.. Perhaps Fiji should take a note from the Civilized World and respect peoples rights to practice witch craft if they so choose.



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 04:01 AM
link   
I'm sort of curious why they reported them now, to be honest with you.

I checked the Lodge's site these fellows were at, and it seems its been active since the 1880's.
So, the locals should be pretty used to it.
Also of note is that their permit was ignored, and that the articles seem to not be sure if it was 14 or 15 members that were detained.



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 04:07 AM
link   
reply to post by Dorfl
 




But in this case it is about a group of middle aged men with a secret society fetish, and people are calling the police and locals ignorant. The NZ guy went to an unstable country for some secret skull and wands meeting...and this is not suspect?


Hmm, I doubt there were "wands" present, as I cannot imagine what they would be using them for.. it was probably some other tool that they didn't understand so they called it a wand? A Skull and a Compass would certainly not be unusual (though Skulls in a Blue Lodge is not "regular"), I would say the other story talking about a Bible a Mace and a Sword being more accurate.

Anyways, I digress. Symbolism and Ritual may be lost to the vast majority of Westerners (like your self, apparently) .. but many keep them. In all honesty the Rituals practiced by Masonry are not that much weirder than say, practiced by Jews or Christians in Mass? Not saying it's a religion, but hopefully even you can see the hypocrisy in the Religious condemning Ritual?




The who now? Surely they mean a judge...no? Really? The prime minister's office? Just 3 questions then:
1. How did the prime minister's office learn of the arrest of some men playing with their wands? (sorry couldn't resist)


Fiji is a small island nation with a population approx 900k .. smaller than the size of New Jersey and with far fewer people. Obviously the story made headlines because the crime in question is so absurd.. the PM probably released them because of the stupidity, and to not make a huge international scene when Western Government laugh their arses off at the ignorance of the whole thing. There is of course the whole issue of internationals being arrested here... Australia and NZ for one would not be pleased.



2. Why didn't a judge or public prosecutor order their release?


This is Fiji, not America. I know I know.. many American's have their head so far up their own asses they don't know the rest of the World doesn't operate in our political fashion, a Prime Minister of a tiny island nation getting involved really isn't that difficult to perceive.



3. Was the NZ guy the only foreigner in this group?


No, there was a few Aussies in the mix as well. Not that it matters.



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 04:19 AM
link   
reply to post by spellbound
 


I have decided that I will petition.

I am going to go out there, which is a bit scary, but I am going to do it - are you?



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 04:37 AM
link   
I find it strange that people are jumping to defend people who actually sit around conducting rituals in secret that involve a skull, wands and a compass, and will actually call the natives who did not like their clandestine actions "dopey village people".

I'm a born-and-bred city boy, and I don't like their actions. What kind of action could possibly be involved in secret rituals that involve a skull and wands? Do you trust the kind of people who clearly look down on others, and are prepared to hide their strange activities from everyone else?

And as for the poster who said "they probably weren't wands, they were probably tools the villagers didn't understand" - sounds like you are the only tool around here, mate. They aren't savage cave-men, and I'm sure they know what a freaking wand is.



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 04:44 AM
link   
Witch hunts happen in usa and uk too, just that you do not hear about it.

In england if you are not supporting the english national team, they may be doing these sorts of things too.

This stuff is still ahppening, but because of hollywood, all the profane, think these people are doing this stuff for no reason, lol.



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 04:45 AM
link   
reply to post by The Last Man on Earth
 


What qualifies as a wand to you?
Could have been dowles, for all you know.
For that matter, we're not even told if any of the objects were in use, or simply present in the Lodge at the time the police entered.
Maces are pretty common, next to swords, as decoration in renaissance/middle ages themed decoration.
Swords are part of the gear of a tyler. Fellow who stands outside to keep people from eavesdropping. Met the tyler of the Lodge here in Milton. Old fellow, decent guy though. Sword could pierce cardboard if you leaned on it.

Fact is, we don't have enough info to day one thing or another. The entire story seems suspicious. W only have two versions of it that have been copied word to word for each news paper.



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 04:54 AM
link   
reply to post by RuneSpider
 


I need to get some kiwis to come out and petition - come on kiwis!

We need to get a petition that the NZ govt supports NZ over Fiji.



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 05:31 AM
link   
A bunch of Ozzies and a few NZers went to Fiji and late at night decided to play with swords, bibles, a skull, and a wand. I thought freemasonry was pretty 'normal'?



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 06:50 AM
link   
reply to post by Rockpuck
 



Symbolism and Ritual may be lost to the vast majority of Westerners (like your self, apparently) .. but many keep them. In all honesty the Rituals practiced by Masonry are not that much weirder than say, practiced by Jews or Christians in Mass? Not saying it's a religion, but hopefully even you can see the hypocrisy in the Religious condemning Ritual?

I'm not religious and as a result I only have to deal with the kind of rituals we tend to call 'tradition'. Westerners understand symbolism and ritual, but religions and cults that keep their rituals hidden from the public can not expect to much understanding. Symbolism is a way of communication between people initiated in that symbolism. So if you are saying that people don't understand your symbolism, than you also say the symbolism isn't meant for those people.
But I agree with your point that it is hypocritical for the religious (and followers of traditions) to condemn a (non harmful) ritual of another group.



Fiji is a small island nation with a population approx 900k .. smaller than the size of New Jersey and with far fewer people. Obviously the story made headlines because the crime in question is so absurd.. the PM probably released them because of the stupidity, and to not make a huge international scene when Western Government laugh their arses off at the ignorance of the whole thing. There is of course the whole issue of internationals being arrested here... Australia and NZ for one would not be pleased.

According to the other article the prime-minister was contacted by the Attorney-General's office. If the arrest was an obvious mistake, then why did they contact the prime-minister? They could order the release themselves...why the hesitation?



This is Fiji, not America. I know I know.. many American's have their head so far up their own asses they don't know the rest of the World doesn't operate in our political fashion, a Prime Minister of a tiny island nation getting involved really isn't that difficult to perceive.

How nice, you assume that I am American. And capable of some very impressive bodily actions. I'm sorry, but I am Dutch and not quite nimble enough for the position you propose. However, having seen quite a lot of the world, I would expect action from a lower authority. In most banana-republics (it's what you hint at, I believe), local authorities would not dare to arrest (foreign) masons of a locally known chapter. And those that do, are looking for a bribe. What possessed them to arrest these guys? And why did it take the prime-minister to set them free? What were the circumstances that made arresting them (and keeping them locked up) seem like the logical thing to do?



No, there was a few Aussies in the mix as well. Not that it matters.

Thanks, this info wasn't in the original article. And it does matter. If the group consisted of only foreigners then the arrest would make more sense. A group (calling themselves masons) could meet in a country with a not so strict police force, to do things they would be arrested for at home. But since it is a mixed group the chances of them being real masons are actually better.



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 07:18 AM
link   
My friends and I used to joke about invading Fiji all the time! Is there any easier target in the world? Ok, maybe Tahiti. We figured as long as the initial coup was successful, and we are Americans, we could immediately establish diplomatic contact with the US and UK, and it might just work.

I am a pilot, my brother is an Diver and Sailor, and my best friend was a Defensive lineman in the pros. He could storm the beach, while my brother controls the sea, and I take the air!

Of course it was just silly joking around, but if we felt that way, no wonder there are so many coups there!

As for the Mason's, that sounds like standard equipment. Since when is a Bible or a worn out old dull sword an odd thing to have lying around????

[edit on 16-7-2009 by getreadyalready]



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 07:27 AM
link   

Originally posted by Dorfl
This is a remarkable story.
It says amongst other things:


Nothing sinister had been going on

However, amongst the stuff the police confiscated were:


wands, compasses and a skull

If a group of teenagers (even in the US) would meet and the police would come knocking and found that kind of stuff, they would be all over the msm. Probably with headlines about satanism and things along the lines of 'WTF is happening to our youths, it must be all those video games'.
But in this case it is about a group of middle aged men with a secret society fetish, and people are calling the police and locals ignorant. The NZ guy went to an unstable country for some secret skull and wands meeting...and this is not suspect?

But the best part is:


At 8.30am yesterday, an officer let them go, saying the Prime Minister's office had ordered they be released.

The who now? Surely they mean a judge...no? Really? The prime minister's office? Just 3 questions then:
1. How did the prime minister's office learn of the arrest of some men playing with their wands? (sorry couldn't resist)
2. Why didn't a judge or public prosecutor order their release?
3. Was the NZ guy the only foreigner in this group?


Looks like some Masons who got caught with their pants down.



The New Zealander, who did not want to give his name,

news.bbc.co.uk...

Of course he didn't. Liars don't want the truth to be known.

Freemasons? What a bunch of freaks.

What is the fascination with skulls, anyway?

[edit on 16-7-2009 by Udontknowme]



posted on Jul, 17 2009 @ 01:51 AM
link   
reply to post by Udontknowme
 




Looks like some Masons who got caught with their pants down.


Well, they had a permit for the meeting. So the local government was aware of it.



What is the fascination with skulls, anyway?


Skulls represent mortality. It's a reminder that all things are not permanent.



posted on Jul, 17 2009 @ 02:05 AM
link   
reply to post by The Last Man on Earth
 


Skulls and Wands scare you?

Last weekend I was at this place where every one chanted/sang together, and simultaneously "prayed" while an old man in a dress claimed to represent the connection to us and God, all the while cannibalizing on human flesh and drinking blood.. Lots of candles, strange ritualistic objects and symbols and so forth...

Oh wait.

That was Mass.



posted on Jul, 17 2009 @ 02:12 AM
link   

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by The Last Man on Earth
 


Skulls and Wands scare you?


Don't be silly. What scares me is that grown men are taking what they were doing seriously, and they are too afraid of their activities being shown to the light of day.

If you aren't ashamed of what you are doing, why try to hide it from everyone?


Originally posted by RockpuckLast weekend I was at this place where every one chanted/sang together, and simultaneously "prayed" while an old man in a dress claimed to represent the connection to us and God, all the while cannibalizing on human flesh and drinking blood.. Lots of candles, strange ritualistic objects and symbols and so forth...

Oh wait.

That was Mass.


Yeah, wrong thrust there, I'm not a Christian nor am I religious in any way, so I find your Catholic Mass just as absurd, but at least they aren't trying to keep it on the sly.



posted on Jul, 17 2009 @ 03:13 AM
link   
reply to post by The Last Man on Earth
 


Then quite frankly your views are immaterial aren't they? You have no spiritual conviction of ritualistic form, you would view anything of this nature, ominous or otherwise in the same regard.



posted on Jul, 17 2009 @ 03:31 AM
link   

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by The Last Man on Earth
 


Then quite frankly your views are immaterial aren't they? You have no spiritual conviction of ritualistic form, you would view anything of this nature, ominous or otherwise in the same regard.


I believe his views are not immaterial. He is not commenting on the rituals themselves, but on the secrecy surrounding them.

Furthermore you cannot dismiss the opinion of another poster simply because his believe-system does not include ritualistic behavior. I would think that people that do have a ritualistic kind of conviction are more likely to view rituals of other groups as pointless or misguided. You yourself proved this in your description of catholic mass.

But let me ask you this. You claim to be a mason, so you are the perfect person to answer this. Why do masons insist on all the secrecy? Because if you guys are right in your believes (and why not) you would want the whole world to be masons right? Or does masonry claim to be only for the worthy and the unworthy are here just for entertainment?



posted on Jul, 17 2009 @ 03:54 AM
link   
No sorcery here please..We are Fijian you know.Maybe they could put up signs of say Harry Potter with the prohibited slash through it so tourists will know..No evil ceremonies you devil worshipors!



posted on Jul, 17 2009 @ 04:04 AM
link   
reply to post by Dorfl
 


Any male is free to join regular Freemasonry, and there exists Co-Masonry and female Freemasonry.

As for the rituals themselves, theyare available online.

however, during the actual processes of their lodge, they close the doors.



new topics

top topics



 
4
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join