Defenders of the Faith:Scientists who blast religion are hurting their own cause.

Judaism teaches that "if your understanding of God contradicts latest scientific evidence, you must revise your understanding of God". In this way a conflict between Religion and Science never occurs.

Most people of Science are respectful toward Religion and most people of Religion are respectful towards Science. The highest truth is the truth that is inclusive of all.

It is only recently that some of the psychotic-fringe gain a little bit of foothold in popular thought. Who is this fringe? A very small and very vocal group of hardcore "christian"- and "muslim" fundamentalists on the one side and a very small but very vocal group of hardcore commie-atheists on the other side. Their mission? To divide. To spread anger through incredibly narrow and uncompromising positions. They love to frequent internet discussion boards.

Originally posted by Republican08
reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows

 

Science, is like a final answer.

And science tends to lean to atheism, and lean away from theism.

I'm sorry but not a single word of that can be regarded as truth. Much like the posted article you are using a very broad brush to depict theists. At the same time you are demonstrating a rather poor understanding of what science can actually claim and by extension science in general.

Science DOES NOT lean towards atheism. The only thing science leads to is an explanation of the mechanical workings of ourselves and the universe. If gods work is self-evident such as claimed in the bible then we must assume that science is the descriptor for the mechanics of gods work. This means that even if evolution is 100% hole free and empirically proven there is still potential for a god to have had a hand in it. The only conclusion that science can make is that there is no definite conclusion. The very nature of science itself can only allow for this conclusion. Even if god came down right now and said " hey here i am, do experiments to make sure this is actually me" it still leaves the door open for contradictory data to manifest. In science when contradictory data is presented the hypothesis or theory is either modified or discarded in order to accommodate it. Prime example is the Big Bang theory. For many years it was thought that the universe had no creation and thus there was no need for a "big bang" but data was eventually discovered that served as evidence for a creation of some sort.

The fact that it hasn't proven atheism, isn't necessary, if you can provide to me how it proves theism, is it the gaps of knowledge we have, that are so quickly filled with mythical beings as a final answer?

No, it is neccessary. In order to claim that science leans towards atheism or a creatorless universe requires data to prove that claim. An absence of data does not equate to an overall absence of presence. It means that the data has either not be discovered or does not exist. There is no logical way to claim it is one or the other. I can't say that there is no such thing as the "big bang" or evolution without first presenting contradictory evidence. the whole reason there is junk science and logic in atheistic and theistic creation is because there is no evidence that currently fits into the oppositions criteria for evidence. The burden of proof is on atheists and theists alike. Both sides have to prove their case in order for either of them to be considered a theory or fact. If no evidence is present then both arguments must be discarded or left open for revision. So far science has "proved" that there was a creation of some sort, the question is why it happened and how it happened and definitive data can not be found without having witnessed said creation first hand. the best we have is mathematical speculations.

Furthermore creationism and theism do not rule out natural causes. god is not necessarily the final answer. God is only one part of the answer. Without the natural world god would not have been able to create us or our universe. And without god, us and the universe may not have existed to begin with. Again, No theist or atheist can truly claim one is more valid than the other without having witnessed the events first hand. And even then it is still up for debate.

At least atheism fights to understand the universe, whilst theism fights to say we can't understand gods ways, while we get closer and closer everyday to finding the universes ways.

This is a really big misconception about Theism and is quite frankly one of the most flammable strawmen used in these debates. In Christianity we are taught to examine gods work. We are taught and encouraged to seek out understanding of the universe and ourselves. It is believed by people such as myself That the more we understand about our universe the more we will understand god. To shun understanding of the universe by way of claiming not being able to understand god is itself a shunning of god. Science is vital to our undertanding of god. Why atheists and christians alike do not understand this is beyond my comprehension.

reply to post by Skyfloating


O yes all i want is to divide you... very pitifull belief you have.

Your going to be writhing around like a insect pinned on glass soon enough as reality is explained and the living quarters of your imaginary genie god evaporate. Im telling you this now so that when the fantasy of a soul, a god, and an afterlife are gone you might still choose to live.

I have my money the religious becoming deeply depressed and concidering suicide... or just dragging it out in some form of self-destruction.

[edit on 10-2-2010 by Wertdagf]

Originally posted by Wertdagf
I have my money on you becoming deeply depressed and concidering suicide... or just dragging it out in some form of self-destruction.

Thank you for providing a beautiful example of the hardened negativity that extreme-atheism is.

[edit on 10-2-2010 by Skyfloating]

reply to post by Skyfloating


O yes the truth is always viscious negitivity...... sigh.

There will be a WHOLE NEW class of physcological disorders when reality comes into focus. i pitty those who have built there whole existance upon seeing their loved ones in heaven... or a magical genie that loves them and grants wishes if you do good deeds.

The truth always seems terrible to a happily ignorant person.

Reply to post by Wertdagf

Really? How will reality be explained so as to have them commit suicide? Sounds like fanaticism speaking.


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reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


In a reality like that what would be your idea of the percentage of people who would self-destruct?

It would be horribly ignorant to say 0%

Originally posted by Wertdagf
There will be a WHOLE NEW class of physcological disorders when reality comes into focus. i pitty those who have built there whole existance upon seeing their loved ones in heaven... or a magical genie that loves them and grants wishes if you do good deeds.

The truth always seems terrible to a happily ignorant person.

May you one day drink of the divine bliss as your spark of consciousness is absorbed into the vastly infinite and ecstasy overcomes your body and being 24/7 as you fly through eternity and at last surrender to the everlasting and pulsating source-energy that is both at the core and inherent in all of Creation. I hereby invoke the blessings of the Great Architect of the Universe in all your undertakings. May you be liberated from Depression, and delivered from darkness. So mote it be.

Reply to post by Wertdagf

You failed to answer the question. Answer it please. What is this discovery you are expecting?


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reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


Fractal universe, human AI, and alien contact in that order.

Now awnser my question please.

reply to post by Wertdagf


And in typical fashion the hardcore atheists eschew all logic and reason for the purpose of making themselves feel superior to people who believe in supposed "faerie tales"


I'm sorry but if your "truth" is so powerful then why aren't christians and theists alike killing themselves in record numbers? More than enough data exists to show that our planet and universe did not NEED a creator of any sort. The big Bang and evolution are taught as scientific fact in most american schools. There are far more christians in public schools than private schools where things like that could be left out. Better yet if religion is as powerful as you seem to think it is then why is it that in a predominantly christian nation there has not been a succesful attempt at permanently banning the teaching of Evolution and other theories that supposedly "contradict" religion? Even the catholic school i attended taught both the big bang and evolution as scientific fact. Many christians consider it to be theological fact as well, going as far as citing passages in the bible that they believe SUPPORT the modern scientific consensus on creation. The only difference is that god is the key factor to either get things started or to interrupt every now and then.


Psychological disorders? The only psychological disorder i see is atheists claiming that science is this magical system that is somehow immune to human error and interpretation.

Your truth consists of nothing more than pure emotion desire to be "right" in a case where nobody can truly be considered right. Please use the logic and rationality you claim to embrace.




Here, i'm going to give you the same type of response you just shot off.

My money is on the bet that Atheists will one day realize just how illogical they are when they realize that the world is inherently without meaning therefore existence itself is a futile struggle against natural laws without rhyme or reason beyond the simple idea that " because that is just the way it works" and soon they will all commit suicide because it is too much for their provincial self centered minds to handle.


Do you see how silly that way of thinking is?

reply to post by DeathShield

My money is on the bet that Atheists will one day realize just how illogical they are when they realize that the world is inherently without meaning therefore existence itself is a futile struggle against natural laws without rhyme or reason beyond the simple idea that " because that is just the way it works" and soon they will all commit suicide because it is too much for their provincial self centered minds to handle.

They may.... Although that choice and those thoughts carry an emotional content far less potent and are thus no source of discomfort. Only the cold pricklys that can be avoided or reduced in severity are of intrest.

Reply to post by Wertdagf

None of which disprove the proposed existance of a higher power. Why on Earth do you think it would?


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Reply to post by DeathShield

I made a comment to a co-worker something like that last part. "If democracy is not a perfect system that produces only justice and freedom then how can one realistically expect peer review to be a perfect system that only produces truth?"


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Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by DeathShield

 

My money is on the bet that Atheists will one day realize just how illogical they are when they realize that the world is inherently without meaning therefore existence itself is a futile struggle against natural laws without rhyme or reason beyond the simple idea that " because that is just the way it works" and soon they will all commit suicide because it is too much for their provincial self centered minds to handle.

They may.... Although that choice and those thoughts carry an emotional content far less potent and are thus no source of discomfort. Only the cold pricklys that can be avoided or reduced in severity are of intrest.

If scientist discovered a God, with some proof that he existed, then as an athiest I would believe in its existance, but which God, as ofcourse many people worship many different Gods.

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


You cant see how ANY of those could disprove a higher power? Maybe you should do some googling and comeback when you have an idea. Sentient Alien contact alone will change reality as you know it.

Its incredible how you dodge questions while whining about others doing it.

reply to post by Wertdagf


Oh and entirely by the way - whats wrong with fairy tales? I loved them as a child. They offered me strength, inspiration, motivation, imagination, concentration, happiness, exuberance, endurance and upliftment.

___________________________________________

I always wanted to express my heartfelt gratitude that you bump these threads. The OPs always contain very important topics which would go nowhere if it werent for your replies. Considering that most internet-surfers usually only read the opening post, you are doing the cause a huge favor.

[edit on 10-2-2010 by Skyfloating]

reply to post by Skyfloating


The placebo effect can go both ways. Youve purposefully deluded yourself to seeing only one side of it. This is a biggie for alot of folks. Let me propose the same question to you that Watcher refuses to entertain.

In the reality that i have discribed how many people that exist today would choose to self-destruct? Just give me a percentage.

Originally posted by Wertdagf
Youve purposefully deluded yourself to seeing only one side of it.

The truth is that I have very much seen the other sides, the dark sides.
You're Projecting.

[edit on 10-2-2010 by Skyfloating]

Reply to post by Wertdagf

I know the short sighted and silly arguments that propose what you propose. No need to google them. But I was asking YOU why you thought it would. Or did you draw your opinion piecemeal from a website you googled?
And I will not be answering your ridiculous question as I have no opinion on a event I do not agree with you will happen. Sorry. Rather like a Christian asking your opinion as to their God's hair color.


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