Israeli soldiers break the silence about Gaza misconduct

Israeli soldiers break the silence about Gaza misconduct

www.nrc.nl

A new report, based on the testimony of 26 Israeli soldiers who took part in the last Gaza war, says the Israeli army used civilians as human shields, fired white phosphorous grenades and "shot at everything that moved".

(visit the link for the full news article)

The first youtube video is very interesting, showing Israeli veterans speaking out about the war crimes committed by the Israeli government and military. They are part of a forum called 'breaking the silence'.

I admire these people for telling the truth as there is too many lies in the mainstream media as well as generalization about Israel. An example is the fact that thousands of Israelis protested during the Gaza War, yet the mainstream media did not mention this.

Although many of those 26 soldiers agreed with the need for the operation, they strongly disagree with the way it was carried out and the inhumane strategies used. Soldiers had been given the task to destroy as much of Gaza as possible and kill on sight. As the first video shows, revenge actions and procedure as described in the article are not uncommon within the IDF. I remember a documentary that I saw some months ago about a project subsidized by the Dutch government, helping Gazan farmers cultivating flowers. The office had been fully destroyed by Israeli soldiers, all the furniture had been destroyed and desks were marked with ''hello from Israel with a star of David''.

No country would be allowed to act like this. Imagine the US acting like that in Iraq, the papers would be full of it, but when it comes to Israel, there's a huge silence.

Like the soldier says in the video, the American public opinion is Israel's most important weapon. AIPAC ensures they'll keep tight control of particularly the US media.

Not to speak of the fact that the majority of infrastructure projects, primarily subsidized by the EU, are destroyed time after time, such as Gaza Airport. Eventually, the West pays again for what Israel destroys.



www.nrc.nl
(visit the link for the full news article)

BRAVO TO THESE GUYS

Now back to reality, These guys will be in for a hard time and you can almost expect a few of them to "disappear".
We all know how ruthless the Zionists have become, Sort of like the abused becoming the abusers..... Personally i hate the guts of everyone who supported the slaughter of Gaza and Israel is determined to piss the world off in some kind of self fulfilling prophecy of endtimes.

Star&Flags for the op

SAM's&Frags for Israel

[edit on 15-7-2009 by Master Shen long]

oh oh

you know what's going to happen now!

Certain ATS'ers are going to storm in, call these soldiers anti-semites and claim that these soldiers have nothing but hatred for Israel!

OH OHHHHH!!!!!!!

Star and Flagged
I hope everyone else does the same

FLAG THIS THREAD!!!

Yeah this thread is sinking like a rock because nobody can even try and defend it, so they are staying out of it. I actually posted this thread and it just fell to page 2 without getting a reply.

Info here about Israeli soldiers using civillians literally as close quarters human shields.

Link

These soldiers are liars and are trying to seek attention. They dont know what they are talking about most of them are cowards and incompetent at what they where tasked to do.

The poor Israeli army only had billions of rounds of ammunition and tanks and helicopters to defend themselves, against the backwards but ruthless and talented killing machine known as the Palestinian.

You people are a joke thinking that that these so called soldiers are even remotely being honest about their experiences.

AHAHAHaHAH ok so is that better to keep the thread fresh? Is this sort of what can be expected to be said by those so blind to the truth that Israel for all the great things it provides is not infallible. That the Palestinians though backwards in many regards are still treated in the most ironic way possible, the same way that many of the Israeli's relatives where treated by the Nazi's

Originally posted by Desolate Cancer
You people are a joke thinking that that these so called soldiers are even remotely being honest about their experiences.

Please confine your comments to the topic.

Thanks.

reply to post by Mdv2



from the OP's link

"The principle of distinguishing between armed combatants and civilians was practically non-existent. The large-scale violence against the civilian population of Gaza was not so much the result of individual misconduct as of a system. There were almost nu rules of engagement. It was a war zone, so every target was legitimate."

I have never been in a war zone, never tried to kill someone, never even been in the military But I have to wonder . . . to my understanding, the ultimate goal of any armed conflict is peace. Whether that comes from capitulation, collapse, annihilation.. Basically, one party is secured in their position. Whatever means that takes is the means it takes. The sooner the better, it would seem to me. Take your enemy out as soon as possible, and leave them no means to retaliate.

The same could be said for the PA. But they don't have the means to fight this way. They will if Israel keeps dilly dallying around.

Operation Cast Lead was a complete farse. They accomplished nothing but to continually show how utterly inept they are at waging warfare and fulfilling what one would consider to be the ultimate goal of sending in your very limited resource: soldiers. The PA has no qualms about killing everyone, had they the resources to do so. Israel, on the other hand, does not have that capacity. This is why they will ultimately fail. War is hell. Either work things out socially or get it over as soon as possible.

But this nonsense about war crimes is ludicrous. It's as stupid as hate crimes. We as humans are circumventing our capacity to reason because one or both sides refuses to communicate effectively. Then we expect this "gentlemen's war. lol It's ephing war!! You know, war is hell. Get on with it and get it over with or shut the eph up. We all have lives to live.

Originally posted by Oeden
to my understanding, the ultimate goal of any armed conflict is peace.

I would respectfully suggest your understanding doesn't go far enough if you believe that. Certainly the official position of most nations at war is that they seek to restore order, but to believe "the ultimate goal of any armed conflict is peace" is naive in the extreme.

The ultimate outcome of war is, by definition, the cessation of war, but frequently this does not resemble "peace". Common goals are maintaining territorial, cultural and religious division in service of powerful political strategic interests and military industrial and other profit motives.

Originally posted by Lazyninja
Yeah this thread is sinking like a rock because nobody can even try and defend it, so they are staying out of it. I actually posted this thread and it just fell to page 2 without getting a reply.

Info here about Israeli soldiers using civillians literally as close quarters human shields.

Link

I've never understood how some can try and defend the indefensible when it comes to Israel. I'll wait to see what defenses will be made.

And if war crimes did occur who's going to file charges,the UN?Israel ignores their resolutions anyway.But if you notice the hamas rocket attacks have since ceased or has greatl diminished.

Originally posted by EvilAxis

Originally posted by Oeden
to my understanding, the ultimate goal of any armed conflict is peace.

I would respectfully suggest your understanding doesn't go far enough if you believe that. Certainly the official position of most nations at war is that they seek to restore order, but to believe "the ultimate goal of any armed conflict is peace" is naive in the extreme.

The ultimate outcome of war is, by definition, the cessation of war, but frequently this does not resemble "peace". Common goals are maintaining territorial, cultural and religious division in service of powerful political strategic interests and military industrial and other profit motives.

I understand your point, and I would agree; however, when discussing Israel/Arab conflict I used the word "peace" because Israel's 'stated' goal is, paraphrased, secured borders and that others acknowledge their right to exist. Since that isn't likely to happen in anyone's life time for whatever reasons then all out war is the logical next step to ensure "peace." In the case of all out war, the side to break the other's will first will be the victor and the one to establish "peace" in the region. At least, in respects to the jew/arab conflict. Should Israel's goal not be what they said it was, and that they want a continued/perpetual struggle between themselves and their neighbors, well . . . then I am being naive to think so black and white.

I find it bizarre that no public official, or anyone for that matter, can talk openly and honestly about Israel. There seems to be a major fear in taking about the subject - fear of being hounded on by pro-Israel groups and being called an anti-semite. And when someone does have the guts to talk about the reality of the situation head-on, they get called an "anti-semite jew hater" as in the case of President Obama. And he only touched on the subject - you can imagine what reaction he would have got had he talked in detail! The last US President to voice similar concerns over Israel was JKF... and we all know what happened to him unfortunately. Even the mainstream media can't help but report on the embarrassing happenings of Israeli ministers - from embezzlement to sex scandals.

Israeli DF: Criticism against IDF inappropriate

JERUSALEM, July 15 (Xinhua) -- Israel Defense Minister Ehud Barak said Wednesday that criticism on the operations of Israel Defense Force (IDF) was inappropriate, on response to a new released report accusing IDF of behaving without constraint in Gaza offensive.

"Criticism directed at the IDF by one group or another is inappropriate, and misdirected," the Israeli daily Jerusalem Post quoted Barak as saying.

"The IDF is one of the most ethical armies in the world, and acts according to the highest moral code," Barak said, "Any criticism of IDF operations should be directed to me, as the Israeli defense minister."

The Israeli army was claimed before of attacks at United Nations facilities, medical personnel and buildings, uninvolved civilians and civilian infrastructure and of the use of weaponry containing phosphorus during the 22-day military operation.
news.xinhuanet.com...

Did you hear that guys?
The users White Phosphorus on innocent civilians are one of the most ethical armies in the world.

Well I guess that settles it doesn't it!

Originally posted by ModernAcademia


Did you hear that guys?
The users White Phosphorus on innocent civilians are one of the most ethical armies in the world.

Well I guess that settles it doesn't it!

Explain to me how they are innocent, please. Is this not a conflict between one cultural group against another cultural group? Don't they have opposing ideologies? Doesn't one, in fact, openly call for the destruction of another?

Personally, it doesn't matter to me which group wins. They are both fanatical religious wacko groups with a small minority being secular, rational etc. Israel ?might? have more atheist and/or non-religious than the arabs, but they are still a, lol, democratic (theocracy). Were the arabs to actually organize themselves, put an end to all the idiotic bickering they do amongst themselves -- they would wipe Israel off of the map without a second thought. Just because they can't, yet, doesn't mean Israel should play "fair" until they can have their little "gentlemen's war."

Either the world should let them fight it out, or we go in and squash b o t h of them demanding an end to this nonsense.

A better question here might be, and for another thread, "Why do we focus so much on this little confrontation when there are so many other confrontations in the world with much much much worse outcomes with regards to human/property destruction??"

Originally posted by Oeden

But this nonsense about war crimes is ludicrous. It's as stupid as hate crimes. We as humans are circumventing our capacity to reason because one or both sides refuses to communicate effectively. Then we expect this "gentlemen's war. lol It's ephing war!! You know, war is hell. Get on with it and get it over with or shut the eph up. We all have lives to live.

There is nothing better than experience to balance a perspective. I propose you go live in Gaza for a while and then tell us how you like the Israeli methods of winning wars.

Originally posted by Lazyninja
Originally posted by Oeden

But this nonsense about war crimes is ludicrous. It's as stupid as hate crimes. We as humans are circumventing our capacity to reason because one or both sides refuses to communicate effectively. Then we expect this "gentlemen's war. lol It's ephing war!! You know, war is hell. Get on with it and get it over with or shut the eph up. We all have lives to live.

There is nothing better than experience to balance a perspective. I propose you go live in Gaza for a while and then tell us how you like the Israeli methods of winning wars.

I suppose the same could be said about living in Israel. I have spoken to survivors/witnesses of suicide attacks and have seen the damage that they do to us mere fleshlings. I'm the last to propose violence, but when violence is called for then it is irresponsible to go at it half heartedly.

Originally posted by Oeden

I suppose the same could be said about living in Israel.

I really don't think so though, Israel is unquestionably safer than Gaza.




Don't worry, nothing gory, it's just a kill death ratio chart.

I have spoken to survivors/witnesses of suicide attacks and have seen the damage that they do to us mere fleshlings. I'm the last to propose violence, but when violence is called for then it is irresponsible to go at it half heartedly.

I'm pretty much a pacifist myself, but I do believe violence is needed in certain situations. But I believe in properly targetted violence if there has to be any at all.

[edit on 16-7-2009 by Lazyninja]

First I would like to commend these soldiers for their bravery and honesty, it is such people that reaffirm my ultimate faith in humanity.

It is also why I say again and again often to deaf and disbelieving ears that there is a huge difference between Zionists, and Israelis and Israelis and Jews.

Not liking the Zionist agenda, and not liking the Israeli agenda in my humble oppinion should never be construed to being about Jews because clearly these Jewish soldiers to have a conscience and are brave enough to speak to the differences between right and wrong, humane and inhumane.

Though I am anti-Zionist, and anti-Israel I truly am not anti-Jewish, I see Jews as being victims not to Nazis or Klu Klux Klan or Red Necks but of Zionists and Israel who exploit and extort Jews when ever possible to not publicly buck, question or criticize the Zionist/Israeli agenda and strategy.

Peer pressure and absolution turns more people into victims and drones without effect of conscience than any other force with a more obvious sinister intent.

Ultimately the only way we are going to defeat the Zionist agenda of one world authoritarian government brought about through biblical mimicry, religious conflict and manipulation and bigotted prejudices is to free the Jews from the yoke and spell of Zionist and Israeli tyranny so they can act with conscious and humane and moral integrity just like these Jewish soldiers are doing.

Some how we have to seperate the 'circle the wagons mentality' that expertly plays upon Jewish fears and identity from the human conscious and morallity that exists in all human beings including Jews and everyone else.

These men are the true heros of the IDF in my humble oppinion.

These men represent what Judiasm should be and ought to be and would be and will be if the world ever gets the Zionists and their absolute quests for absolute dominance defeated.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
First I would like to commend these soldiers for their bravery and honesty, it is such people that reaffirm my ultimate faith in humanity.

It is also why I say again and again often to deaf and disbelieving ears that there is a huge difference between Zionists, and Israelis and Israelis and Jews.

Not liking the Zionist agenda, and not liking the Israeli agenda in my humble oppinion should never be construed to being about Jews because clearly these Jewish soldiers to have a conscience and are brave enough to speak to the differences between right and wrong, humane and inhumane.

Though I am anti-Zionist, and anti-Israel I truly am not anti-Jewish, I see Jews as being victims not to Nazis or Klu Klux Klan or Red Necks but of Zionists and Israel who exploit and extort Jews when ever possible to not publicly buck, question or criticize the Zionist/Israeli agenda and strategy dominance defeated.

Sadly enough, Zionists and their supporters deliberately mix up Judaism and the Holocaust with Anti-Zionism. They will not call you an Anti-Zionist, instead they will classify you as an anti-Semite, because the relation to the Holocaust is a strong psychological weapon. Don't you dear criticizing Israel you dirty anti-Semite, we've been through the Holocaust, justifying all we do. In such a way, most people don't even attempt to criticize Israel.

In fact, I'm not even anti-Israel. Although I am of opinion that that particular piece of land should never been given for the creation of Israel, it happened. Accept it. Israeli's have every right to live there. However, it's the way in which the state of Israel behaves that bothers me. The ease with which they murder, destroy and violate international jurisdiction as a sovereign state. Even more importantly, the excuses they use to defend their behavior as well as the denial about their crimes.

These soldiers are courageous men whom should be highly respected for telling the truth that is withhold by our mainstream media.