Expert Top Gun/Airline Pilots say Flight 77's maneuvers are impossible

Originally posted by babybunnies
Politicians know that the general public will almost always by any "official story" that they are told, especially when they see it happen live, on the news.

The people screaming to Michael Moore in Fahrenheit 9/11 that "don't tell me it didn't happen like they said, I saw the planes fly into the towers on the news" are exactly the sort of people that Governments just LOVE.

"People will believe anything so long as you repeat it often enough" - Herman Goering.

Do you mean like how the conspiracy people keep repeating how the Pentagon is supposed to have extensive antiaircraft batteries? Or do you mean like how the conspiracy people keep repeating there wasn't any wreckage found at the Pentagon site? Od did you really mean like how the conspiracy people keep repeating Cheney issued a stand down order?

Noone is saying you should mindlessly believe everything the gov't says...but that doesn't mean you should mindlessly believe everything those damned fool conspriacy web sites are saying either.

Originally posted by Beldy

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
reply to post by Rafe_

 

That airline went out of business in 2002. All Reheat said was that Robby had flown "mostly Cessna's" and that he appeared not to have rating now. The latter appears to be true, the former an exaggeration. But not by much - I doubt Balsamo has ever flown a large passenger jet of the kind used on 9/11.

I just want to point out a couple things.

First is Atlantic Coast Airlines did NOT go out of business in 2002. It flew until 2004 at which time it's name changed to Independence Air. Independence Air finally went out of business in 2006.

en.wikipedia.org...
www.law.utk.edu...

Second thing is the aircraft that is listed on the dispatch release in this thread has a tail number of N428FJ which is a jet, not a turboprop. It's no where near the size of a 757/767 but it is indeed a jet.

So, a copy of one dispatch release that lists him as a crew member? Big whoop......if you notice, his name location (bracketed between to blacked-out names above and below) indicate that he was a First Officer, at the time. Captain's name on top, F/O in the middle, and the one lone Flight Attendant on the bottom. That is standard crew listing order, most companies. Each company's Dispatch Release is differently formatted, though.

What does it matter if he was a Captain or FO? They are both pilots. In fact, sometimes the FO is actually more experienced than the Captain. I'm not saying this is the case here but to hint that just because he is a FO and not a Captain he is somehow less qualified is not right.

The "J328" is probably the 'short hand' code for the Dornier 328. Although, I have other references showing the proper coding for that airplane type is "D328"....but, I don't know much about those smaller turbo props....never bothered to learn them.

Again, the aircraft listed on the dispatch release is a jet. I'm just pointing this out because as I read your post I felt as if you were trying to hint that RB flew turboprops only.

In the end it doesn't really matter what kind of plane he flew. But what does matter is that you guys are so adamant that your version of the events is the one and only true version, not everything you post is correct.

BTW I am NOT RB. I do not know him, I do not belong to his website.

Amazing ,well done

This sure sets the record straight
I will be looking forward to your future posts!

I love the "SHILL" comments. Seriously, we know the government wastes an obscene amount of money for ridiculous reasons. But really, do the Truthers really think the government would pay people to debunk No-Planers?

*snip*

This is getting just a bit old...

There is obviously a lot of disagreement on this topic...

However...

The back and forth of name calling...

"shills", "idiots", and assorted other rudeness are, as most of you damned well know, against the rules as defined in the terms and conditions...

If you can't discuss the issue without resorting to this sort of juvenile stupidity, don't bother.

Originally posted by Rafe_
This posts certainly makes the " believers" look quite ridiculous now (more then usual). "believers" like Proudbird,goo'olldave and the rest of the crew of course.

You have just shown in one post how much they have lied about these points you just made on these boards , they do not even have a rebutal.

KUDO'S


And thus so far we still have only 1 confirmed REAL pilot on here and that is Rob balsamo, interesting fact.

edit on 23-2-2012 by Rafe_ because: (no reason given)

Who has lied? Nobody.

And why are you so fascinated by Balsamo's credentials? No one is suggesting that he wasn't some sort of pilot. But if you think that automatically imbues everything he says with the light of truth then you're basically a sucker.

Originally posted by Rafe_
This posts certainly makes the " believers" look quite ridiculous now (more then usual). "believers" like Proudbird,goo'olldave and the rest of the crew of course.

You have just shown in one post how much they have lied about these points you just made on these boards , they do not even have a rebutal.

What exactly have I said that's a lie? Please, point it out to me or retract it.

And thus so far we still have only 1 confirmed REAL pilot on here and that is Rob balsamo, interesting fact.

You forgot to mention that Rob Balsamo is also the only confirmed con artist on here who's simply out to make a fast buck off of gullible internet surfers. Everything he insists from "no wreckage found at the Pentagon" to "planes can't fly low to the ground" has been disproven time after time and yet he's still repeating them. If he simply didn't know he was wrong, he would just be mistaken. Since he DOES know he's been shown to be wrong and yet he's continuing to repeat them anyway, it means he's a liar.

His status as a pilot is therefore irrelevent.

reply to post by GoodOlDave

Everything he insists from "no wreckage found at the Pentagon" to "planes can't fly low to the ground" has been disproven time after time and yet he's still repeating them. If he simply didn't know he was wrong, he would just be mistaken. Since he DOES know he's been shown to be wrong and yet he's continuing to repeat them anyway, it means he's a liar. His status as a pilot is therefore irrelevent.

Hey Dave, I've seen you've joined the best forum online concerning 9/11!

GoodolDave, Pilotsfor911Truth forum member

Why not post that accusation there? Show these guys hiding here how it's done. Good job!

PS. Read this before you do..

pilotsfor911truth.org...

Cheers.

reply to post by ThePostExaminer


WHAT a shame!!!!

Sad, really.....

Originally posted by ThePostExaminer
Hey Dave, I've seen you've joined the best forum online concerning 9/11!

GoodolDave, Pilotsfor911Truth forum member

Why not post that accusation there? Show these guys hiding here how it's done. Good job!

Hmmm. May I ask what your relationship is to this "best forum online" site that a) you'd be so ecstatic that I signed up for it and b) you'd be so intimately familiar with it that you'd know I signed up for it to begin with?

It seems to me that you have more of a "behind the scenes" connection to them than what you're acknowledging.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by ThePostExaminer
Hey Dave, I've seen you've joined the best forum online concerning 9/11!

GoodolDave, Pilotsfor911Truth forum member

Why not post that accusation there? Show these guys hiding here how it's done. Good job!

Hmmm. May I ask what your relationship is to this "best forum online" site that a) you'd be so ecstatic that I signed up for it and b) you'd be so intimately familiar with it that you'd know I signed up for it to begin with?

It seems to me that you have more of a "behind the scenes" connection to them than what you're acknowledging.

Stop being so paranoid Dave!

New members are highlighted at the bottom of the forum's front page.

Originally posted by ProudBird
reply to post by ThePostExaminer

 

WHAT a shame!!!!

Sad, really.....

Pot calling kettle?

pilotsfor911truth.org...

Approximately 20,000 TT Over 15,000 Transport Category with Major U.S. Airline Types in: DC-9, B737, B757/767 Flown Right Seat: B727, A300, DC10 Left Seat: DC-9, MD80, B737(all except -400/-600) B757/767

Are you sure given the roasting you got in that thread??

Originally posted by ThePostExaminer

Stop being so paranoid Dave!

New members are highlighted at the bottom of the forum's front page.

How is it being paranoid when I point out there's something odd about your thinking it's such a celebratory event that I signed up for a different conspiracy web site? You must know that noone else on ATS cares about such a thing...and besides, I shouldn't need to point out it's the conspiracy mongors exactly like Rob Balsamo who are preaching abject paranoia, not me. How many sinister secret agents plotting to murder us all were needed to pull off this "no plane hit the Pentagon" conspriacy, precisely?

I notice you didn't answer the question I asked earlier- what IS your relationship to that web site, anyway? It's obvious you're a member, too.

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade
reply to post by Beldy

 

I'm less sure that your admonitions about being "sure your version of events are correct" are so on the money. I doubt you know what I think happened. But if you mean I think that Balsamo's claims are ludicrous, and that anyone who believes them, or those of his cohorts, on the strength of them once being pilots are foolish, then yes. You're correct.

You are correct in that I don't know what you think. That is the impression I get though, reading through your (and others)posts.

My point is not everything you guys post is accurate. That is a problem because people read your posts and take what you post as true. Yes, people should look things up themselves for verification but you and I both know that does not happen in all cases.

It's important to post accurate things. Especially about this subject I think.

Anyway, I guess this is off topic but I wanted to point this out.

Originally posted by ProudBird
reply to post by Beldy

 

but apparently the research into the fleet history of Atlantic Coast Airlines is more up your alley.....

No it isn't. I was just curious and wanted to check out the facts.

Problem is with N428FJ is, that N-Number DID used to belong to a Dorner Turbo-prop:

That is interesting. I'm going to research that a bit.

N428FJ, and here it is assigned (but de-registered) to a Dornier 328-310 "JET"....so, hence the confusion, when tracking a particular N-Number. Surely you know that N-Numbers get re-assigned, yes?

I'm aware of that yes. From your link I see that this particular aircraft is now operating as OY-NCN in Denmark. I'm not sure what that has to do with the subject at hand though.

Who has lied? Nobody.

That airline went out of business in 2002

What's this then?

Originally posted by Beldy

Who has lied? Nobody.

That airline went out of business in 2002

What's this then?

An error, made in good faith.

The fact remains that Balsamo's credentials are unimpressive. That he uses them to make claims that are so outrageous that only the very gullible could believe them. And that the subject will soon be changed (probably by him in one of his numerous other guises) to Ralph Kolstad and his nonsense.

I used to think it was worth trying to counter some of this stuff. But it's now become so pathetic, so obviously the product of marginal oddballs, that there's no point. It debunks itself.

Originally posted by TrickoftheShade

The fact remains that Balsamo's credentials are unimpressive. That he uses them to make claims that are so outrageous that only the very gullible could believe them. And that the subject will soon be changed (probably by him in one of his numerous other guises) to Ralph Kolstad and his nonsense.

What is really entertaining is the same people who claim there was "no" wreckage at the Pentagon because they either ignore the photos or claim the photos are photoshopped or think they should be privy to every piece of evidence gathered and are all wussy-like that they aren't are the first to ascribe gobs and gobs of credibility to Cap't Bob's postings of some supposed certificate or a printout of something that "proves" his aeronautical "expertise".

For the record, I don't doubt Cap't Bob was at one time and may still be (heaven help us) a working pilot, but I have also been on this earth long enough to know that that credentials (as he always likes to mention) do not in any way, shape or form equate to credibility or competence or logic or acumen or even experience. There are morons and idiots and lunatics and poseurs and stupidity at every level of any organization/profession...and PfT/Balsamo/Kolstad/et al are the perfect examples of that

I couldn't care less if Cap't Bob flew the space shuttle...the tripe he is passing out destroys any sort of credibility he has about anything.

I used to think it was worth trying to counter some of this stuff. But it's now become so pathetic, so obviously the product of marginal oddballs, that there's no point. It debunks itself.

Word.

Originally posted by trebor451
For the record, I don't doubt Cap't Bob was at one time and may still be (heaven help us) a working pilot, but I have also been on this earth long enough to know that that credentials (as he always likes to mention) do not in any way, shape or form equate to credibility or competence or logic or acumen or even experience. There are morons and idiots and lunatics and poseurs and stupidity at every level of any organization/profession...and PfT/Balsamo/Kolstad/et al are the perfect examples of that

I couldn't care less if Cap't Bob flew the space shuttle...the tripe he is passing out destroys any sort of credibility he has about anything.

You know, when I was back in college I learned something valuable in my Sociology class...apparently back in the 40's there was a sociologist who theorised the Japanese were so warlike and aggressive because their culture forced everyone to go to the bathroom at exactly the same time. Essentially if you were in Japan and you had to go, you had a social obligation to hold it in until the publically accepted time, and the frustration of which instigated all sorts of Freudian issues that led to their using aggression as an outlet. He published a number of papers and discussed this sociological complex in public forums. When the war ended and he could now go to Japan and research this sociological behavior more fully, he found out it was complete nonsense- they did no such thing and he was only acting upon a wartime rumor against a culture not fully understood at the time, which he took to be legitimate. His research itself became a lesson in sociology because it showed the more you stared at something, the more your training will cause you to see patterns according to your own training that may or may not be there.

The moral of the story is that regardless of whether Balsamo is an unrepentent thieving con artist pulling our leg for financial gain or whether he's been studying all these goofball theories for so long that he actually believes them himself, the fact still remains that just because he's a pilot it doesn't mean what he's saying isn't horse [censored]. All it means is that the horse [censored] he's saying would specifically involve piloting an aircraft because he's a pilot himself.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave


the moral of the story is that regardless of whether Balsamo is an unrepentent thieving con artist pulling our leg for financial gain or whether he's been studying all these goofball theories for so long that he actually believes them himself, the fact still remains that just because he's a pilot it doesn't mean what he's saying isn't horse [censored]. All it means is that the horse [censored] he's saying would specifically involve piloting an aircraft because he's a pilot himself.

I agree with that. Just because he is a pilot does not mean he is 100% correct or believable. I certainly do not know him nor belong to his website. The only point I was trying to make in my posts is not everything you guys post is 100% accurate either.

Believe you me, some pilots are not the sharpest tools in the shed. I work with them. Most are highly professional and knowledgeable but there is a small percentage that are questionable at best.

I do feel that accurate posts are very important in subjects such as these though. From both sides.