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Expert Top Gun/Airline Pilots say Flight 77's maneuvers are impossible

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posted on Feb, 19 2012 @ 07:43 AM
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Originally posted by ProudBird
reply to post by ThePostExaminer
 


Except.....this is perfectly representative of the misrepresentations of facts used to confuse the issue.... (not your fault, perhaps....maybe you are just too much of a "fan" of a delusion) .....:


......line up with the directional damage.



American Airlines 77 DID NOT not fly "over" the Navy Annex in the sight picture displayed, there (^ ^ ^)...

I just did not happen.

Anyone, at all, who has actually been to the area can clearly see the path, and with his or her own eyes survey the terrain. Take a ride up the elevators in many buildings, and gander even more (I have)....the Residence Inn Arlington Pentagon City, a Marriott property, gives a good vantage point.....the elevators empty to a PERFECT view for the vantage. Check out each floor's view....

But, it's best to just WALK the area.......I suggest starting at the Sheraton National Hotel and walking down the street....down past the Navy Annex, on Columbia Pike....it's a slight down-hill walk, from the Sheraton.

Really, just go there, and walk around.....it is illuminating..........




Okay, I'll spell it out for you Proudbird. Morin and many more witnesses place the aircraft over the Navy Annex but for the sake of argument and not wanting to spend another 25 pages dancing around this obvious fact, I was actually using Stutt's data for reference.

It has nothing to do with the OCT "evidence" but I'll humour this little government loyalist conspiratasty theory that you guys have cooked up (but haven't the stones to put your "expert" names to.

Here's a reality check on the pseudoskeptic conspiracy theory being spouted by you guys:

Stutt's alleged datapoints (which you won't step up to support)



Now look at datapoint 151365. 183ft AGL.
Look at what point this point was allegedly recorded on Warren Stutt's own image:



Got it so far?

The area of land on the alleged SOC path is 125ft ASL.



That's 183ft + 125ft = 308ft ASL

Was I right in my earlier post Proudbird? Whether it flew over the Annex or not (which it did), was the aircraft @120 ft over the height of the Annex (which is @69ft tall)?

Look at the next alleged reading. 89ft AGL.

The topomap shows that this area of land is 95ft



89 + 95ft AGL = 184ft ASL

That's 124fps descent at cruise speed. 7440fpm. Am I right or not Proudbird?

124ft is the same height as the world's tallest thermometer:



Or this 124ft water tower?



At well over 500mph shown in this clip (which incidentally covers an area of 750ft - almost the same area allegedly covered by the aircraft in the one second involved)



No probs, eh Proudbird? Cut the crap.




posted on Feb, 19 2012 @ 07:46 AM
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For the benefit of Mr Reheat.





pilotsfor911truth.org...




posted on Feb, 19 2012 @ 11:28 AM
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reply to post by ThePostExaminer
 


No, it is something that amounted to perspective and a trick of angle, and distance, per the individual witnesses:


Okay, I'll spell it out for you Proudbird. Morin and many more witnesses place the aircraft over the Navy Annex.....


Now, as to the LEGGE de-code....it is fine.

Even the overhead Google Maps screen capture, with the big yellow "push-pins" in it show (at "Frame 151365") still south and east of the Annex building.

However, the plots are ALL from the FDR.....and the FDR only "knows" what it is told by the IRUs......and there are THREE IRUs.......so, which IRU is giving the positional data that is ultimately recorded by the FDR?? Is the Left, the Center, or the Right IRU?? Or, is the "Triple Mix" position (a nebulous "position" derived by an interpretative program of all three IRU inputs) the one that is provided to the FDR?

Do you know? If so, please enlighten us.

By the way......for American Airlines 77, the IRUs did NOT....I repeat, did NOT have GPS updating, and thus there is a rather large margin of error in their positional data, as recorded.

ANY real airline pilot who is familiar with how these systems work, today and back then, would know and understand this simple fact.


Sorry if you have been "bamboozled" and fooled by the charlatans at "PfffffT"......I do not know you, but if I may make a suggestion?

Talk to some real pilots. Politely.



posted on Feb, 19 2012 @ 02:48 PM
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Originally posted by ProudBird
reply to post by ThePostExaminer
 


No, it is something that amounted to perspective and a trick of angle, and distance, per the individual witnesses:


Okay, I'll spell it out for you Proudbird. Morin and many more witnesses place the aircraft over the Navy Annex.....


Now, as to the LEGGE de-code....it is fine.

Even the overhead Google Maps screen capture, with the big yellow "push-pins" in it show (at "Frame 151365") still south and east of the Annex building.

However, the plots are ALL from the FDR.....and the FDR only "knows" what it is told by the IRUs......and there are THREE IRUs.......so, which IRU is giving the positional data that is ultimately recorded by the FDR?? Is the Left, the Center, or the Right IRU?? Or, is the "Triple Mix" position (a nebulous "position" derived by an interpretative program of all three IRU inputs) the one that is provided to the FDR?

Do you know? If so, please enlighten us.

By the way......for American Airlines 77, the IRUs did NOT....I repeat, did NOT have GPS updating, and thus there is a rather large margin of error in their positional data, as recorded.

ANY real airline pilot who is familiar with how these systems work, today and back then, would know and understand this simple fact.


Sorry if you have been "bamboozled" and fooled by the charlatans at "PfffffT"......I do not know you, but if I may make a suggestion?

Talk to some real pilots. Politely.





We all know that the aircraft flew over the Navy Annex don't we Proudbird?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Before you pipe in Snowcrash..

www.abovetopsecret.com...

And Reheat, Alfie and GenRadek (where did you go by the way??)

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

And one for you Proudbird..

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Anyway....

Where but where in the above is the answer hidden to my post on the alleged 124fps descent??
Do you actually read the posts before you start tapdan..err..type?

All of the points mapped out in the images above were done by Warren Stutt himself in a PM conversation.

May I make a suggestion? Why not endorse Legge/Stutt if the paper is "fine", why don't you or one of your friends here come out and endorse the damn thing?

By the way, GPS is irrelevant in the alleged "final seconds" of the Pentagon aircraft. The OCT path is delineated by the directional damage and the lack of left bank data in Stutt's decode. Do we have to go through this again??

www.abovetopsecret.com...

It's bad enough that government loyalists blatantly deny the OCT claims yet claim to be defending it, but to twist and turn over your own pseudoskeptic theories?

Now. The alleged 124fps descent. Please read my post again.



posted on Feb, 19 2012 @ 02:57 PM
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reply to post by ThePostExaminer
 


WAIT a minute!!!!

EVERY link up above ^ ^ ^ goes back to your thread.....it is this one:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

What a shame....so pathetic......................................................................................


Wish I could add more,l but it would just be repetitive.......at this point.........


edit on Sun 19 February 2012 by ProudBird because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 19 2012 @ 10:37 PM
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posted on Feb, 19 2012 @ 11:46 PM
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posted on Feb, 20 2012 @ 12:12 AM
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posted on Feb, 20 2012 @ 01:45 AM
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posted on Feb, 20 2012 @ 12:55 PM
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Originally posted by robbybalsamo2
Hmm... ATS Staff really do not want me posting here. Instead, they will only allow those to libel me.

Wonder why that is?


I'm thinking it's probably because you have poor credibility, you cannot conduct discussions like an adult, and you're making up for your lack of actual evidence with spamming the same accusations over and over. Plus, I can't believe the ATS moderators approve of your making sock puppet accounts to get past their bans, either. I think that pretty much covers it. If you genuinely want a free, uncensored, and independent discussion of your outrageous claims, then why not create a discussion board of your own?

The fact of the matter is, dozens of eyewitnesses specifically reported they saw that it was a plane that hit the Pentagon. If your formulas, calculations, and dozens of pages of data can't address that fact then your claims aren't even getting out of the gate regardless of how many times you spam them.
edit on 20-2-2012 by GoodOlDave because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 20 2012 @ 01:24 PM
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reply to post by GoodOlDave
 


Yes, indeed....

Look, this thread (originally posted back in 2009! Check the OP) is a flimsy copy of many others that make similar claims. The entire American Airlines 77 question was put to bed back in 2004 in this EPIC thread by ATS member 'Catherder':

9/11: A Boeing 757 Struck the Pentagon

END. Period.


ALL of the rest, the nonsense distractions about "EAS" (Equivalent Air Speed...something only pertinent to aerodynamics engineers), "Dutch Roll" (something that is related to high Air Speeds at HIGH altitude/thin air situations) and "Mach Tuck" (again, only associated when actually nearing the speed of sound, for the environment the airplane is in....NONE of the 9/11 airplanes got anywhere near to the speed of sound for their environment)....

....these are utter red herrings. Those who remain informed and "deny ignorance" learn this, as a matter of course.

END. Period.



posted on Feb, 20 2012 @ 02:09 PM
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posted on Feb, 20 2012 @ 02:16 PM
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reply to post by Six Sigma
 


OK...we all know that "9/11 denial" is a business....on some levels.

It is also a psychological and possible obsessive-compulsive delusion, on other levels.

I, for one, will step back from berating an obviously mentally ill person, from now on. Such actions diminish us, as adults and rational beings.

OK?



posted on Feb, 20 2012 @ 02:34 PM
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Originally posted by ProudBird


I, for one, will step back from berating an obviously mentally ill person, from now on.


There is not a doubt in my mind that Mr. Balsamo is suffering from some sort of mental disorder. I would feel sorry for him if he wasn't so arrogant. This of course could be part of his disorder. Obviously, I feel he would benefit with some sort of psychotherapeutic treatment. So, yes, I think it's in bad taste to further humiliate a man that has little or no control of their actions.



posted on Feb, 20 2012 @ 02:37 PM
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Originally posted by ProudBird
ALL of the rest, the nonsense distractions about "EAS" (Equivalent Air Speed...something only pertinent to aerodynamics engineers), "Dutch Roll" (something that is related to high Air Speeds at HIGH altitude/thin air situations) and "Mach Tuck" (again, only associated when actually nearing the speed of sound, for the environment the airplane is in....NONE of the 9/11 airplanes got anywhere near to the speed of sound for their environment)....


My rationale for dismissing these characters as BS artists are actually more simple than that. Whenever someone comes along and throws confusing calculations, unintelligible formulas, and data noone can comprehend and demands that we need to accept everything they say without question on the basis of "they're an expert so who are we to question them" my BS artist warning alarm starts to go off.

Case in point: Alan Greenspan. All throughout the economic boom he was portraying himself as a superexpert with a near supernatural talent for manipulating the economy, and he openly brushed off all those who brought up troubling warning signs they were seeing within the subprime mortgage market with "I know more than you do. I'm the expert". When the subprime mortgage market melted down he was brought before Congress and he openly admitted the subprime mortgage market was so insanely convoluted that he didn't know what the flip was going on in the market either. We all found out the hard way that just because the guy is an economist it didn't mean there weren't limitations to his understanding of things.

Now, compare stunts like that to the material that NIST, MIT, Purdue, etc are putting out, and you'll see what the difference is right away- they go out of their way to explain every little component so that we can understand what they're talking about. For example, here's a report on the collapse of the towers by MIT materials engineer Thomas Eagar. You can see he wants people to understand what he's saying, rather than copping "I'm an expert so who are you to question me" arrogance Balsamo and the other con artists are using to cover up the fact they're BS artists...

Why did the towers collapse, by MIT engineer Thomas Eagar

Not that it matters since my original statement still stands- unless they can address the hordes of eyewitnesses that specifically saw the plane hit the Pentagon, their attempts to show how mathematics can prove a cat is really a dog have no credibility.



posted on Feb, 20 2012 @ 02:59 PM
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Originally posted by Six Sigma

Originally posted by robbybalsamo


Be sure to keep an eye on the list folks... we have yet another update coming....



Winter clear out sale on PFFT Clocks and bumper stickers?? Getting ready for the PFFFT/911summer spectacular... Beach balls and BBQ grill covers?
Poor Capt. Booby....all alone with his thoughts....and TiffanyLA .


You laugh, but Alex Jones is actually selling Infowars license plate frames on his web site. It's made of genuine Chinese plastic and valued at $1.50, but it's yours for only $9.95

Infowars License Plate Frame

Plus, Balsamo is now releasing an exclusive five DVD collection of his "Director's cut" movies for only $49.95. After all, whenever anyone says that everything we know is wrong and we can only find out the REAL truth if we give them our money, we should believe them completely and without hesitation.

Pilot's for 9/11 Truth movie set

Sarcasm aside, how can these truthers NOT see they're simply being conned out of their money by a bunch of grifters.



posted on Feb, 20 2012 @ 03:03 PM
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reply to post by GoodOlDave
 


Epic evidence, by Thomas Eager.

It underpins the FACTS of 9/11, and the various dynamics, to be certain....however, this thread (polluted as it has become) was "all about" the Pentagon, originally.

And, that OP has been refuted, over and over.....the basic claims of "Ralph Kolstad" refuted, ad infinitum....

....so, until and unless Mr. Ralph Kolstad himself shows up?

This topic is "BUSTED!"



posted on Feb, 20 2012 @ 03:07 PM
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posted on Feb, 20 2012 @ 03:08 PM
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posted on Feb, 20 2012 @ 03:14 PM
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