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Oklahoma Octopus, Scientifically plausible/need more information

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posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 12:39 PM
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The Scientific Possibility of the Oklahoma Octopus

I recently saw the animal planet show “lost tapes” where they give a dramatization of what it would be like to encounter a cryptid.

In the past I loved cryptozoology but have not given the field much thought until I saw this. After doing some poking around on the internet I found that information regarding this creature was scarce and seems to be more of a localized story. I was wondering why this story has failed to be more popular, as the idea of a fresh water octopus is one of the most likely cryptids I have heard of for the following reasons:

1. Stories about fresh water octopuses are not new, fishermen all over the country claim to catch octopuses in fresh water lakes. (Even though they are much smaller that the Oklahoma octopus is believed to be.)

2. It is not unlikely to imagine a species of octopus that survived after the oceans receded from North America. Other ocean invertebrates like the freshwater jellyfish found all over N.A. as well as the fresh water lobster are examples of this ability to adapt.


3. Octopuses are the ultimate camouflage artist of the natural world. New species are discovered right under our noses all the time because of how well they are able to disguise themselves. Add that to the murky, nutrient rich waters of North America, combined by the fact that nobody is really looking for them and you have an animal that could very plausibly have escaped our notice and remained hidden all this time.

4. Most octopuses are very territorial and don’t like to share their niche with others of their kind. Meaning that in an average sized lake there may only be one or two breeding pairs that stay far away from each other most of the time. This would of course help account for their elusive nature.


5. Octopuses are truly indiscriminate eaters. The numerous mysterious disappearances attributed to this creature are no big surprise. Octopuses are willing and able to take down prey many times their size, and unlike shark attacks (who bite and let go) most cephalopods are not so picky about their meals. Even the unexplained drowning may simply be these creatures above mentioned territorial tendencies. Lashing out at something in its territory without any intent on eating it.

So in short I was wondering if there is anyone on ATS from the area that may have more detailed information. Such as:

Have there been well documented sightings?

Are any strange markings found on the legs or lower torsos of the drowning victims?

Are there any local stories about it that may not be in the main stream?

Like I mentioned above, I think this to be a very plausible cryptid. It really should get more attention in my opinion, and the lack of information is frustrating. So any new opinions, facts, stories, or speculations are desperately wanted.

Thanks for reading.




posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 12:49 PM
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I always enjoy posts of this type.

Nice job. Interesting and deserving of more research.

[edit on 15-7-2009 by Clark Savage Jr.]



posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 12:56 PM
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reply to post by NRA4ever333
 


I have never heard of an Oklahoma Octopus, and I spent many years in Oklahoma lakes!

I have heard, and seen photos of catfish the size of school busses blocking up the dam on Grand Lake. I have heard of Bull Sharks being in that lake. I remember when one of the lakes was overrun with diapers somehow, but I have never heard of an octopus!

Please provide more info, I would love to look into it further!!



posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 12:57 PM
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well I have no data to share, but I agree with you that this is a very plausible cryptid.

Why not? Like you said they could be in inland seas where the connection to the ocean has been lost. Or in major river ways. Or in lakes that are now freshwater but used to be attached to the sea through a now gone river. It's possible.

When the octopus dies I imagine 98% of the body would just disappear in a rotting mass that looks like anything. The only thing would be the animals beaks. Somebody should have found something like one before to make this more plausible. But a situation that they haven't found any beaks, and there turns out to be beaks, wouldn't surprise me.

I would imagine that the creatures behavior would be a little different than their ocean going bretherin. Having to live in shallower waters and contend with finding most of it's prey near the glades by shore or near underwater structures. maybe they spread out their tentacles like some sort of angler and don't keep them real close to the body unless they sea a largemouth bass or catfish nearby. Maybe they angle by sending individual tentacles each in a different direction in the reeds and catch only chad with them.

Probably wouldn't show up too well on a fish range finder or something similar a fisherman would be using. If anything like a moving mass of algae or lake water plants.

I think that in general these octopi would be rather small, but a big one could come along from time to time.

My question is are there relatively unexamined bodies of water, or tributaries where this creature could be making a living. places we don't really pay attention to or wade through or dredge up. I imagine a decent dredge job would scoop up one of these.

I ask about relatively unexplored or examined waters, because there were these things called gorillas living up in some relatively unexplored mountains for thousands of years before they were discovered by science. they were right under their noses the entire time.

Like this idea.



posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 01:01 PM
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How big was this supposed Oklahoma Octupus supposed to be? Sorry, dont know much about it.



posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 01:08 PM
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reply to post by BASSPLYR
 



My question is are there relatively unexamined bodies of water, or tributaries where this creature could be making a living. places we don't really pay attention to or wade through or dredge up. I imagine a decent dredge job would scoop up one of these.


I wouldn't say "unexamined," but definitely murky deep waters. I am from the "Four State Area" of OK, MO, KS, and AR. There are dozens of very large lakes with fairly deep bottoms and ample food supplies. Grand Lake in OK in particular has been known to have a lot of wild fish stories. It is pretty deep and muddy. Overall, the entire area is a little spooky. Indian Reservations, Spooklights, 100lb spoon bills in a little river that runs right through Miami, OK. Giant catfish scaring away divers and plugging up the dam, Old caves, hideouts for Jesse James and many others. There are even some stories here on ATS about massive underground caves with Alien civilizations on the AR, MO border near Gravette, AR.

Overall, it would not surprise me a bit to run into an Octopus there!



posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 01:25 PM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 


These are the only two good links I could find. It's not much, one tell the lakes that are synonymous with the creature, the other is kind of like a commercial for the "lost tapes" episode I saw, but it has some information on it.

By asking around, anything you can give me would be greatly appreciated.

www.unknownexplorers.com...

www.youtube.com...



posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 01:31 PM
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reply to post by ConspiracySquid7
 


Love the name, squid are awesome.

Now supposedly they get a big as a horse, but I highly doubt that. Not to mentions that it would only need to be about as big as medium sized dog to take down most people. I think the size estimates they give don’t take this into account.

In the water we are out of our element, and we become more vulnerable to an attack from such a monster.

So in short they say it would have to be fairly big, I don’t agree.



posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 01:49 PM
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yeah there is that video of an octopus ambushing a passing shark that is twice the octopuses size and the octopus wins. THe shark really didn't have much of a chance. THis octopus was id estimate from the video about 3 or 4 feet in diameter. the shark was at least 4 feet long.

so a octopus where it's body is the size of a kitchen trash bag or a small hefty or large beach ball and it's tentacle span a good 5 feet could probably drown a woman or kid. I think there would be a major struggle but I think the octopus could do it.

I actually like the idea of a freshwater octopus. Didn't the entire region use to be a shallow very large inland sea millions of years ago. SOme vast shallow coral sea or something similar. It could be possible that a population were stuck behind when the sea closed off and dried up from climate change leaving the lakes that are thee. It could have evolved over the millions of years to live in lower salinity water. there's no real rule that says they can't evolve to live in less hospitable climates.

OCtopi like shell fish and stuff. maybe they hang out where the scampi and craw fish congregate and eat them. If so they must be nocturnal in nature because lots of people hunt for crawfish on the shores of lakes. bass love em, so they make great bait. Somebody would have seen one in the day time foraging for the critters. So maybe they come out only at night. maybe they are what steals your entire bait but leave nothing on the hook? never know.



posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 01:56 PM
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on youtube a person named jurrasici has the entire episode up in 4 parts. Incase anybody wants to watch it.



posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 05:16 PM
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maybe they are what steals your entire bait but leave nothing on the hook? never know.



If thats true I hate fresh water octopuses!



posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 05:32 PM
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yeah me too. I would be getting city limits on striped bass every time I go out if it weren't for the damned octopi. funny go fishing on the ocean and it's the mammals you have to worry about stealing your bait-seals and such. go fishing in the fresh water and it's the sea creatures (octopi) you have to worry about stealing your bait. go figure.



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 05:37 PM
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I am from the area mentioned and I have heard the stories about something like this. The only problem is that the lakes that are mentioned aren't the lakes that I've heard associated with this creature. So, here is what I have been told.

The creature is associated with lake Eufaula, a man made lake, as most of the lakes in NE Oklahoma are. The Story begins with local native legends of creatures lurking in spring-fed ponds that dotted the area before the lake was made. The tales say that all of the springs were linked underground and the large, tentacled creature would lurk just beneath the surface waiting for prey to come for a drink. It would then grab the victim and drag them to their deaths.

When the lake was made, the creatures promulgated into the larger habitat, but still lair in the old springs dotting the lake bottom. It has been known to attack canoes and small boats and supposedly has been seen struggling with deer along the lake shore.

Other than that, I've really got nothing else. I can say that most of the lakes are connected to the ocean via the Arkansas river network, which feeds into the Mississippi river.



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 05:56 PM
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www.askabiologist.org.uk...

This is a cool explanation I found.


You're right, cephalopods haven't taken over the freshwater world, unfortunately. In fact, there are no freshwater cephs at all! The reason for this must be physiological - how their bodies deal with their environment, in this case, how they could adapt to low-salt conditions. Some experts think it might have something to do with their kidneys (actually, 'metanephridia' if you want to use the proper term) and how they function in freshwater.

Also, cephalopods are very active animals, with high oxygen needs. The molecule they use in their blood to transport oxygen (hemocyanin) doesn't work too well in freshwater. So, take your pick! If you want to know more about squids and the like, try these websites:

www.tonmo.com...

www.thecephalopodpage.org...

Hope this helped!



posted on Jul, 17 2009 @ 09:44 AM
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Lol you beat me to it. I was going to make a post about this very subject. It was going to contain media though so I guess I'll just post it here.

I always like the story of the Oklahoma lake monster because it seems to be different from all the others. It's not a giant croc or a lizard or a dinosaur that went extinct millions of years ago, it's a creature we all know and love, and have probably seen before.

The Octopus.

Here is a Lost tapes episode about the beast from animal planet.

Link to Vid

The lake in question.



I personally think the Octopus is plausible because of a couple things. One a species of jellyfish that adapted to fresh water and two a species of shark that did the same.

About three years ago I was cat fishing on the Mississippi river when I pulled in a 4 ft bull shark. This is not a super rare event and has been known to happen from time to time.


Oklahoma, known to many as the Sooner State, is known for being an average type of state. It has an average population, it is an average size, it has average sized mountains and average sized lakes. It is these average sized bodies of water that interests me today though. According to various reports on the internet Oklahoma lakes have a unique and deadly inhabitant - The Oklahoma Octopus. The Oklahoma Octopus is believed to live in 3 of Oklahoma's lakes; Lake Thunderbird, Lake Oolagah and Lake Tenkiller. The Oklahoma lake dwelling monster, described as Octopus like, it believed to grow as big as a horse, have leathery, reddish brown skin. Although no recent reports have come in of a man eating Octopus in the Oklahoma lakes, natives have long suspected the killer beasts are inhabiting their lakes. Is it possible that the Oklahoma Octopus is just a myth? Is it possible that an ocean dwelling creature such as an Octopus could live in a fresh water lake in Oklahoma? Well it is possible, though highly unlikely. The Bull Shark is a ocean dwelling creature that can be found in freshwater and not too far from us either. Lake Nicaragua has it's own collection of Bull Sharks that happily swim in their fresh water lake. These sharks are potentially dangerous and have been known to attack people. However, though an octopus can grow to the size of a horse and often had leathery, reddish brown skin, no reports have ever been confirmed of a freshwater dwelling octopus.


Source from Associated Content


“Lakes in Oklahoma rate high in instances of drowning. Some believe that drowning victims actually fall prey to the giant octopi living in the lakes.” reads the entry, written by the book’s author, Scott Francis, “Several of Oklahoma’s lakes, including Lake Thunderbird, Lake Oolagah and Lake Tenkiller, are said to be home to these monstrous creatures that are thought to be responsible for dragging swimmers and fishermen to their watery deaths.”


Here is a cheesy crappy remake of one of the events in question as was told.



[edit on 17-7-2009 by DaMod]



posted on Jul, 18 2009 @ 03:58 AM
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Originally posted by NRA4ever333
The Scientific Possibility of the Oklahoma Octopus

I recently saw the animal planet show “lost tapes” where they give a dramatization of what it would be like to encounter a cryptid.

In the past I loved cryptozoology but have not given the field much thought until I saw this. After doing some poking around on the internet I found that information regarding this creature was scarce and seems to be more of a localized story. I was wondering why this story has failed to be more popular, as the idea of a fresh water octopus is one of the most likely cryptids I have heard of for the following reasons:

1. Stories about fresh water octopuses are not new, fishermen all over the country claim to catch octopuses in fresh water lakes. (Even though they are much smaller that the Oklahoma octopus is believed to be.)

2. It is not unlikely to imagine a species of octopus that survived after the oceans receded from North America. Other ocean invertebrates like the freshwater jellyfish found all over N.A. as well as the fresh water lobster are examples of this ability to adapt.


3. Octopuses are the ultimate camouflage artist of the natural world. New species are discovered right under our noses all the time because of how well they are able to disguise themselves. Add that to the murky, nutrient rich waters of North America, combined by the fact that nobody is really looking for them and you have an animal that could very plausibly have escaped our notice and remained hidden all this time.

4. Most octopuses are very territorial and don’t like to share their niche with others of their kind. Meaning that in an average sized lake there may only be one or two breeding pairs that stay far away from each other most of the time. This would of course help account for their elusive nature.


5. Octopuses are truly indiscriminate eaters. The numerous mysterious disappearances attributed to this creature are no big surprise. Octopuses are willing and able to take down prey many times their size, and unlike shark attacks (who bite and let go) most cephalopods are not so picky about their meals. Even the unexplained drowning may simply be these creatures above mentioned territorial tendencies. Lashing out at something in its territory without any intent on eating it.

So in short I was wondering if there is anyone on ATS from the area that may have more detailed information. Such as:

Have there been well documented sightings?

Are any strange markings found on the legs or lower torsos of the drowning victims?

Are there any local stories about it that may not be in the main stream?

Like I mentioned above, I think this to be a very plausible cryptid. It really should get more attention in my opinion, and the lack of information is frustrating. So any new opinions, facts, stories, or speculations are desperately wanted.

Thanks for reading.


When I lived and worked in Oklahoma I saw what had to be the biggest damn catfish EVER, simply blaoting in the sun, abandoned for some unknown reason by whatever amazing fisherman fished him up.

Probably because it was too heavy to carry very far. If you fished alone and had not planned ahead, you may have no way of doing anything but leaving it or releasing it if you aren't a bastard.

But we have all kinds of big things in Oklahoma, I wouldn't be doubtful that an Octopus of unusual size might live around there.

Never heard this before now though.



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 01:02 AM
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reply to post by ravenshadow13
 


That is a very good point to bring up, but for arguments sake life finds a way. There are numerous examples of organisms from the same families adapting to new environments (abyssal crabs living by sulfur vents, wingless flies living in Antarctica). Just because it hasn’t been seen before doesn’t mean it’s impossible, or that such a mutation does not exist.

Fossil records show a myriad of creatures living in the inland seas did not adapt, and died out when the water receded. There were probably hundreds of types of cephalopods living in the inland seas at the time, but that is the point of evolution and the adaptability of a broader genetic line.

Those whose unique alleles and phenotypes allow them to survive during cataclysmic changes pave the way for new species who can survive in the new environment.

But you do bring up a good argument.



posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 10:50 AM
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One of my fave cryptids! I can definitely see it being plausible!

There's another cephalopod type creature, I believe it's been reported from Kentucky....Licking River? If I'm mistaken, sorry!

It was said to be black in colour with an orange, shell-like centre and long tentacles.....sounds a bit like a cuttlefish or something, massive snail of sorts?

Either way, its awesome!



posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 11:31 AM
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I've heard a story about that coming from lake Thunderbird (or, as we call it, Lake Dirty Bird).
If you've ever been to lake Dirty Bird you'd know that everything looks like a monster in that water;
especially if you've been downing a few cases of beer (which seems to be the norm in that area).

I don't know of any drowning victims that have had sucker marks found on them post mortem.

As a side note: Oklahoma has had some sea incursion in the past and may have left some adaptable
remnants behind.
link
edit on 29-9-2011 by whitewave because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 12:13 PM
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www.unknownexplorers.com...

"Modern sightings of the creature are almost non existent, however it is reported that Native Americans long feared this creature that they likened to a leach. Described as having the overall appearance of an octopus, with leathery, reddish brown skin, the Oklahoma Octopus is said to grow to the size of a horse."

I've never heard of this one!





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