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New theory suggests that we may not be alone after all

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posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 10:36 PM
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Originally posted by visible_villain
reply to post by schrodingers dog
 

A perfect opportunity to cite one of my all time favorites -


Fermi paradox

... is the apparent contradiction between high estimates of the probability of the existence of extraterrestrial civilizations and the lack of evidence for, or contact with, such civilizations.

The extreme age of the universe and its vast number of stars suggest that if the Earth is typical, extraterrestrial life should be common. In an informal discussion in 1950, the physicist Enrico Fermi questioned why, if a multitude of advanced extraterrestrial civilizations exist in the Milky Way galaxy, evidence such as spacecraft or probes are not seen. A more detailed examination of the implications of the topic began with a paper by Michael H. Hart in 1975, and it is sometimes referred to as the Fermi-Hart paradox. Another closely related question is the Great Silence — even if travel is hard, if life is common, why don't we detect their radio transmissions?

There have been attempts to resolve the Fermi Paradox by locating evidence of extraterrestrial civilizations, along with proposals that such life could exist without human knowledge. Counterarguments suggest that intelligent extraterrestrial life does not exist or occurs so rarely that humans will never make contact with it.

Source : Wikipedia




(from the Wikipedia article you linked

Basis of the Fermi Paradox:

The apparent size and age of the universe suggests that many technologically advanced extraterrestrial civilizations ought to exist.

However, this hypothesis seems inconsistent with the lack of observational evidence to support it.

To this is say what I say to Carl Sagan when he says the same thing in Cosmos, which is, go to hell.

Secondly I say, this entire websites and hundreds more like it, if not thousands and hundreds of thousands, are devoted to all sorts of accounts, reams and reams of files, declassified information, eyewitness accounts, abduction stories with strange otherworldly implants and probes, YouTube is brimming with UFO videos, sure, most of these are probably frauds but UFOs and Aliens seem to have been with us for a very long time on this planet, judging from all this, which I would say is evidence.

If this isn't evidence, then I would like to see what evidence the Fermi Paradox or the Drake Equation has.

Because neither have anything but alot of guessing, and we have alot more evidence to show than they have to deny it with.




posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 11:06 PM
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The biggest thing I cannot for the life of me get my head around is:

What/who created all that is? It's a real chicken or the egg dillema because the universe just didn't suddenly *appear* where'd it all start.

Yeah I get the Big Bang or God Particle theories and evolution and all that. I even openly accept that there is a possibility that other intelligent life is out there. I sure hope they faired better than we did, but Why base 'intelligent' life from carbon only?

One thing to ponder is energy itself, it doesn't go away it transforms into some other kind of energy, everything on earth demonstrates that, the creation of the universe (using the Big Bang theory of course) was probably the largest example of how that works.

The question in my mind is where did this energy come from? who/what created it?, and let's not forget the existance of 'dark matter' proof that everything must have a balance...good/bad light/dark etc...

My biggest fear is that our whole existance of what we think is *REAL* is just an experience and one fine moment someone/something is gonn pull the plug and it will result in that feeling we've all had...watching our favorite TV show when the lights go out and we have that moment of "WHAT just happened?!".

Then what?, where do we go from there, what's next...thinking of course of 'transforming' energy. David Icke has raised some very DEEP questions about EVERYTHING most of which are frightening, exciting and wonderous all wrapped in one.

It would be great to envision someone or something that understands how this all came to be, where it's heading and WHY our world's "powers that be" insist on destroying things instead of setting each and every one of us on the 'right path' so we can be as enlightened as they are and make use of ourselves in the most productive manner.

It wasn't till very recent (within the last half a year or so) that I began to stop pushing/focusing on individual events trying to make them go the way I want at the speed I want. I have to tell you since adopting that change, I couldn't be happier...pleasantly surprised on a daily basis with observing how things go when they're not forced.

My friends pretty much think I'm nuts for adopting such a worry free lifestyle, but I can tell you months before, stress strain and worry...ohh yeah that got me real far...NOT!

Instead now I focus on being as much help as I can to others and to accept their help where needed so I am not trying to solve every problem alone, I find that some very interesting results come from it, not only satisfying to me, but to another person/persons involved in it. I truely think this is the way 'most' of us are heading, learning to work together and solve complex problems as a functioning "unit".

The real kicker is, ANTS have been doing this as long as they've been around...cooperation gets stuff DONE! Why can't we who are soo much more 'evolved' get a clue?



posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 11:29 PM
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Great find S-Dog…S+F

It’s nice when science finally agrees with popular public opinion…


Although having said that, science has already shown that many life forms on this planet are extremely durable…e.g. insects living in the ice in Antarctica and cockroaches that are able to survive the fallout, of a nuclear blast. Whether life is all carbon based or not, we know from our own planet that life can exist in the most extreme conditions. It seems to me that life just somehow finds a way…


- JC



posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 11:33 PM
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reply to post by zazzafrazz
 


You should focus on making a positive contribution for once...



posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 11:43 PM
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There is life out there that we wouldn't even immediately recognize as 'life' as we know it, consindering they are not carbon based and wouldn't be anything we could ever possibly imagine.

We are not alone, I will never accept that we are. There is life out there.



posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 11:57 PM
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Mans ability to view all things from his own knowledge perspective amazes and amuses me.

To contemplate other life forms we scew an idea to make it fit into what we know. Unfortunatly we know so very, very little.

IMO, to view the bigger picture and see what is realy there, we must throw off the shackles of all sciences as we know them. Anything and everything is possible. The catch phrase " Can support life" is the most absurd, imagination blocking and egostistical view imaginable.

We only know one existance, an existance based on perhaps living to see 80 years old. Where the majority of our programmed needs and wishes are money based and our imagination is socially chained like a prisoner, to the only history we know or allow ourselves to believe.

To the debate about whether there are other life forms I say.. "We are not advanced enough to ask that question due to our own miniscule view of what life could be". There are many mysteries waiting for us, one day man will look back and laugh out loud at the opinion we had of our own importance.

Respects



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 12:00 AM
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The more people that wake up, the better.



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 12:03 AM
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reply to post by schrodingers dog
 


Basically they are saying anything is possible, what an amazing theory
My mom used to tell me that when I was 6. life doesn't have to be biological.



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 12:06 AM
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The most idiotic self-centered thing anyone can ever mutter out of their little mouths is "We are alone". How can anyone EVER say such a thing? How can anyone ever even THINK such a thing? The size of the universe laughs in their faces, and that pleases me.

To think that outside this galaxy or even on the other side of the universe there's a retarded alien civilization stating the same exact thing amuses me. Haha, here we are mother #ers, you're not alone in this universe, don't worry! Some day we will meet.



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 12:07 AM
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Reading through the thread I was waiting to see the Fermi Paradox mentioned and was not disappointed.

I agree that intelligent life is out there but where is it and why can't we detect it?? I had to go back to the old book shelf to find S Baxter's Deep Future, Chapter 22-Silent Stars.

In 14 billion years our galaxy could have been colonized by someone many times over and the evidence should be observable-even to us. To resolve the paradox we have only 4 options.

1) We are alone-we are the first
2) We can't see them
3) They were here/there and have transcended
4) They choose not to be seen



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 12:08 AM
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reply to post by Deus Ex Machina 42
 


They are basing it on Observation of Evidence. I would not ridicule someone for attempting to make sense of what we see by using Science. At least they are trying.

Hell it is better than saying "God did it" and just stopping there. At least they are contributing in the name of Science.



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 12:11 AM
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Originally posted by Ownification
reply to post by schrodingers dog
 


Basically they are saying anything is possible ...


Hem no.
At least that's not the way I read it. As I understand it, they are rejecting uniformitarianism ...


Uniformitarianism, in the philosophy of science, assumes that the same natural processes that operate in the universe now, have always operated in the universe in the past, and at the same rates; and that the same laws of physics apply everywhere in the universe. Its methodology is frequently summarized as "the present is the key to the past," because it holds that all things continue as they were from the beginning of the world.


... in favor a broader interpretation to account for temporality.

So not 'anything is possible' but that ETI is more probable.



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 12:15 AM
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reply to post by schrodingers dog
 


thanks for clarification, I still believe everything is possible. I was just referring to my belief and my moms hahaha. Sorry if that is not funny



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 12:16 AM
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reply to post by Bear Creek
 


I think it is VERY important to understand that we are not looking at this from a self evolved human perspective.

We are basically placing a present day human into what could be a Million years of Scientific Space Travel Technology.

What would we do right now if we had very advanced space fairing technology. Colonize, Mine, Resource Gathering, Reproduce endlessly.

What would a Human with another Million years of evolution in the fields of Human Genetics, Computers, Nutrition, Robotics, Nanotechnology do?

Would we REALLY be going from planet to planet banging like bunnies populating them and colonizing everything in sight?

Would we REALLY be concerned with resource gathering if we mastered our need for food or water or even oxygen?

In a Million years Humans might never die due to unlocking what causes aging and unlocking all genetic defects and diseases.

What would someone who lives forever have in the way of goals in space?



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 12:19 AM
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Originally posted by TurkeyBurgers
reply to post by Deus Ex Machina 42
 


They are basing it on Observation of Evidence. I would not ridicule someone for attempting to make sense of what we see by using Science. At least they are trying.

Hell it is better than saying "God did it" and just stopping there. At least they are contributing in the name of Science.



Since when did science become a religion, again? Maybe you should realize that science is not always right and is evolving just as we are.



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 12:23 AM
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Originally posted by TurkeyBurgers
reply to post by Bear Creek
 


I think it is VERY important to understand that we are not looking at this from a self evolved human perspective.

We are basically placing a present day human into what could be a Million years of Scientific Space Travel Technology.

What would we do right now if we had very advanced space fairing technology. Colonize, Mine, Resource Gathering, Reproduce endlessly.

What would a Human with another Million years of evolution in the fields of Human Genetics, Computers, Nutrition, Robotics, Nanotechnology do?

Would we REALLY be going from planet to planet banging like bunnies populating them and colonizing everything in sight?

Would we REALLY be concerned with resource gathering if we mastered our need for food or water or even oxygen?

In a Million years Humans might never die due to unlocking what causes aging and unlocking all genetic defects and diseases.

What would someone who lives forever have in the way of goals in space?

Or in a million years humans might go back to the 2000 year old life style after bombarding each other to dust. Due to the bombardments people might turn against technological advancement and live life with nature and accept a different form of knowledge which could give them access to different ways of improving lifestyle. To give an example would be the Egyptians, we don't know what happened, they achieved much with their own form of science, just look at the pyramids. Any who the point is that any thing is possible.



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 12:39 AM
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reply to post by Deus Ex Machina 42
 



Since when did science become a religion, again? Maybe you should realize that science is not always right and is evolving just as we are.


For one since Scientology(I know it isn't as it sounds but the very usage of that word in a religious sense greatly skews real science) became a religion.

Two, many, far too many people erroneously treat science as a religion, when in reality it is nothing more than a point of view based upon documented and tested observations.



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 12:53 AM
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The problem is a lack of data.

I would suggest the Torino Scale.



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 12:56 AM
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Originally posted by AncientShade
The universe is simply a very big place and has lots of possibilities to spawn life and good possibilities to spawn intelligent life. This is simply a fact, we know it and can calculate it. That is a very good thing.

I do believe that there is other life out there.

However, I dispute your above statement. Please show me the calculations that 'prove' other life?

Trying to associate probability to other life forms is pointless. They either exist, or they don't.



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 12:58 AM
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reply to post by TurkeyBurgers
 


Great point. What would an evolved species without need of scarce resources do? Add number 5 to Baxter's list-Evolve and hide! This might be a sub category "can't be seen".

Between where we are and the super evolved race that has conquered aging, energy and resource replenishment there has to be some noticeable tracks we can detect.




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