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Obama is a citizen of kenya..with actual laws to back it up.

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posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 04:44 AM

sometimes i am seriously tempted to declare the nation of debunkistan, and start sending out tax forms.
... maybe make a law that makes owning US$s a criminal offense?

posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 04:58 AM

Originally posted by Geladinhu
Who cares really?

It's funny how most Americans cannot accept the idea of having a president that comes from another place.

I like soccer better than politics. So I'll try to explain my view point based on soccer. What really matters is if the team plays well together, the coach can be from anywhere if it makes the team play well together.

After all, it is just a game even if a lot of people take it way too seriously.
It's not about winning against other teams (oh no, the coach comes from another place so it will screw up the team on purpose
) , it's about the challenge to break down the contrasts as to unite and at the same time have fun.

The coach is also a player, and all a player wants is to enjoy himself and have a good reputation (in order to enjoy himself even more).

Nationalists have to chill the f. out!

[edit on 15-7-2009 by Geladinhu]

Here's an attempt to make your soccer analogy actually FIT this situation. I know nothing of soccer, and find it to be far more useless than even politics, but I assume there are still rules involved.

Are there any rules in soccer?

If the captain of the team ignores those rules, is there no penalty? If not, then why the hell have rules to begin with?

That's why Americans get upset when all indications are that the captain of their team has disregarded the rules. If he can, why can't the rest of us?

posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 05:09 AM
reply to post by JScytale

susposedly, though, according to some, well, he wasn't born in the US, he was born in Kenya....his father's home....his mother is american...
at the time he was born the laws in this country, by what I understand, did not pass citizenship automatically to him solely based on the fact that his mom was american, his mom was obligated to go to the US embassy and file papers for his citizenship....which, well, I don't think they ever found evidence that she did that...
I do believe there might be something in the constitution that kind of blocks those with multiple allegiences from holding the presidency..but I am not sure.

as for those who say who cares what country he was born in and weather or not he's natural born, well.....anyone who cares about maintaining what little integrity that the constitution still has SHOULD care!! our founding fathers put that requirement in there for a reason, after all, china already owns a good portion of our money, would we be so not caring if obama was the son of a chinese dad and american mom, born in bejing, attending school in singapore, and finally coming to the US at the age of ten or whatever?
maybe we should just lay the ole constitution to rest, shred it or something, it seems like it has become much like the bible, we can pick and chose what we like, but lay aside whatever we find unappealing as the whim hits us.

at first I figured that if there was anything to the claim that he wasn't a citizen, they would have checked before he won the presidency...but well, if the pentagon is allowing people to say no to deployment using this as a basis, I got a feeling that there might be something to it. if this is so, why was a person that isn't qualified to run for office allowed to be sworn in for president??? well....the dems would go along with it, because he's their man!!! and he was their best chance to get them into the white house..
the republicans would go for it, hoping that it would pave the way for the possible chance of the terminator getting his chance....
and of course the global elite would go for it, since it would be much easier to get a non american stooge into the office and seal our fate.

maybe that is why at least some of us care???

posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 05:13 AM
You are now a citizen of debunkistan, dawnstar. Congratulations! where can i send the tax form?

posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 05:21 AM
reply to post by debunky

I'm sorry, it's against my religious principles to pay taxes.....
and well, your new country does allow for all it's citizens freedom to practice their religion, doesn't it?? or does it fail to recognize my religion.....the FYLMMA religion?

so, would you have a gripe if arnie decided to run for pres? he's not a natural born citizen either ya know....
and well, he even has a stronger accent than obama does...

I wonder if any of bin laden's kin have been nationalized citizens of the US???

posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 05:37 AM
Oh absolutely. We have freedom of religion and water slides!

... well, we don't have waterslides, yet, since freedom of religion caused an unexpected drop in our tax income, but we are working on it.

Anyway: I think arnie mustn't. But he isn't is he?

Thing is: if you read the info about the revoked orders: the point is that he was *reserve* and *volunteered* for a tour. He is *entitled* to change his mind up to the day he needs to report. All he needed to do was to write on a piece paper "I don't wanna"
He chose to write "I don't wanna, because Obama is a Vampire" (fulfilling the "on a paper" and "saying "don't wanna"" requirements.) and to the birthers it's a "bombshell"

posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 06:18 AM
In order to be natural born you have to have both parents be citizens of the country?!!!

posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 06:29 AM
reply to post by Histopherness

WE don't get to vote on all our own laws, we have people represent us; again which we did not get to directly vote on to do so. That is the sad fact of the matter. You do not have the right in this country to challenge whatever you want. Congress can, and you have the right to ask your congressman to do something about it, doesn't mean he will.

Perfectly stated. I've just come [finally, after struggle] to the same conclusion. The cases regarding President Obama's birth have not been heard, and will not, as it has been ruled that Congress alone has standing to bring this type of suit and be heard. It's not a lack of evidence, It's a ruling that prevents the evidence (if it exists) from being heard.

Game over.

I don't like it either.

posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 06:37 AM
reply to post by nenothtu

Here's an attempt to make your soccer analogy actually FIT this situation. I know nothing of soccer, and find it to be far more useless than even politics, but I assume there are still rules involved.

Are there any rules in soccer?

If the captain of the team ignores those rules, is there no penalty? If not, then why the hell have rules to begin with?

That's why Americans get upset when all indications are that the captain of their team has disregarded the rules. If he can, why can't the rest of us?

Yes. You make the soccer analogy work. Well, unless the soccer commission -- which oversees the enforcement of the rules -- has a higher authority one can appeal to, whatever the soccer commission rules is law. Your only recourse, as a team captain who believes they have a valid grievance, is to elect new commission members, and try again.

You are not, of course, prevented from speaking out about the situation, however the commission may decide to........... suspend your membership. [ominous music swells and fades]

posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 06:43 AM

Originally posted by THX-1138
In order to be natural born you have to have both parents be citizens of the country?!!!

If you live in the country proposed by a swiss lawyer obviously yes. But it's really hard to live in a proposition i heard. Don't you want to become a citizen of debunkistan instead? we have waterslides, and i can revoke your current citizenship from here.

posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 06:58 AM
And a hardy har!

Come on, dude. There is this phrase ''natural born citizen'' and it has a meaning doesn't it?

If it really is meaning that both parents need to be citizens then what?

It might all be set up to put Biden in office as President then?

These are alarming questions and I want to see Michael Jackson answer them now! From beyond!

posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 07:19 AM
Well.... according to US law

1862 opinion of the U.S. Attorney General

our constitution, in speaking of natural born citizens, uses no affirmative language to make them such, but only recognizes and reaffirms the universal principle, common to all nations, and as old as political society, that the people born in a country do constitute the nation, and, as individuals, are natural members of the body politic.

1857 opinion of Supreme Court Justice Benjamin R. Curtis

The answer is obvious. The Constitution has left to the States the determination what person, born within their respective limits, shall acquire by birth citizenship of the United States

(this was said earlier in this thread)

Now according to the OP:

The U.S. Constitution was based upon the encyclopedic "The Law of Nations," (Droit des gens; ou, Principes de la loi naturelle appliqués à la conduite et aux affaires des nations et des souverains) a treatise written in 1758 by Swiss lawyer and diplomat Emerich de Vattel as a manual for how government should function. Book I, Chapter XIX, part 212, codified the definition of "Natural born citizen" as jus soli jus sanguinus: “The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens.”[13]

So: If you live in a country that says the "droit du gens, principes de la loi naturelle appliqués à la conduite aux affaires des nations et des souverains" from 1758 is applicaple law, then yes: it must be parents, however said country defines parents. (adoptive and foster parents are legally parents in most of the world btw, though not biological)

posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 08:45 AM
I have a question which may be slightly off topic but as a newbie to ATS don't really know how to go about the whole thing so here goes:
If President Obama, who I actually thought (think) was the better choice but I have no say as I am not American and don't live in America, is going to be in power for another 3.5 years doesn't that mean he is in power until round about 21.12.2012 and does that thought set off any alarm bells in anyones mind?

Just a thought!

posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 08:57 AM
I don't think anything will be done about this even if it's true that he's not "eligible".

Maybe you can get a head-start on proving he's the Anti-Christ before he gets re-elected. There's a large demographic who will actually listen to that... and a few of them might not even know yet! I also heard that some of them still think their votes count.

I think there's a minority in Congress who care more about the Bible than the Constitution too. And if you're lucky, some of the Dems might be superstitious.

posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 09:13 AM

Originally posted by A.M.L.
I believe all Jewish people can gain citizenship in Israel (confirmation of this?).

That fact wouldn't seem to disqualify Jewish people with duel citizenship with Israel and the United States from being the POTUS.

I think it would actually. There is already controversy about certain politicians having "duel loyalties" to both the USA and Israel. However, the current issue is in regard to the position of President of the USA - not other positions. Correct me if I am wrong, but is it not only the position of President that constitutionally requires a natural born citizen to fill the role?

posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 11:11 AM
The United States does not recognize laws from other countries. The other country is responsible for it's own laws. Obama, being Born in Hawaii is a natural born American citizen by Jus soli. He may have dual citizenship in Kenya because his father is Kenyan.

The concept of dual nationality means that a person is a citizen of two countries at the same time. Each country has its own citizenship laws based on its own policy.Persons may have dual nationality by automatic operation of different laws rather than by choice. For example, a child born in a foreign country to U.S. citizen parents may be both a U.S. citizen and a citizen of the country of birth.

OOOH look Birthers! Actual links to real things, not a blog, not wiki, not some made up garbage.

posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 07:52 PM
I think it is about time that the brain washed obama followers accept the evidence put forth over and over. They actually are the picture perfect example of what they say our issue is. (as Southerngardian says "nothing will ever be enough proof")

I think it is time you guys and obama start to prove your side and release the information we request. You cannot say that there are not enough to warrant an investigation.

Oh, and by the way if it turns out he has lied, he and anyone involved should be HUNG!

and I mean this seriously!

posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 07:54 PM

off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 07:58 PM
I'm sick of this argument. every other dya there is a new thread about Nobama not being a legal citizen.
He probably isnt a legal citizen. Your commander in chief is not a US national. He is ineligible to be President.
Yeah well get over it.
You know it, I know it, Nobama knows it. But a sad fact is, nothing can be done about it but whine and complain that does no good.
You want change, vote against him in 2012.
Cause we can't do anything about it unless you're planing osmehting with a rifle, and even then that won't get anything done(secret Service is too good at what they do) but sending you to prison.

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posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 07:58 PM
reply to post by xyankee

What evidence? What evidence have you birthers put forward that hasn't been debunked immediately?

Really now. I think this is a dead horse and really people should if they are so determined write and call their reps in Washington and make them force Obama to publish his long form birth certificate. Cause they are the ONLY ones that can.

And thank you Heir Grammar Nazi for the tip.

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