1,000+ page bill would make health care a right in the USA

1,000+ page bill would make health care a right in the USA

apnews.myway.com

WASHINGTON (AP) - House Democratic leaders, pledging to meet the president's goal of health care legislation before their August break, are offering a $1.5 trillion plan that for the first time would make health care a right and a responsibility for all Americans. Left to pick up most of the tab were medical providers, employers and the wealthy.

(visit the link for the full news article)

I guess we are rewriting the Bill of Rights now. I completely agree with the notion that the health care system in the US needs some form of overhaul, but having health care is not a "right".

What are the rights of the folks who are paying for these rights of others and what about their "right" to keep the current insurance they have, which ultimatelyt they will not be able to as this will mean the demise of private insurance.

What about the "rights" of the folks who will lose their jobs due to their companys being forced to lay them off rather than pay the 8% tax on wages.

Finally, why does someone who is obese, smokes, drinks heavily or wants an abortion or sex change have the right to have me pay for their medical treatment?

apnews.myway.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Well i don't trust polls,but i don't think the majority of Americans want an NHS so you shouldn't be going down that route.From my perspective though i think its a travesty that a country that likes to call its self civilized cannot take care of your own peoples health.You have no problem paying taxes for a military that surpasses all other military spending in the world combined,yet kick up a fuss about paying a small tax to ensure that all citizens rich or poor get equal health care...completely absurd to me.

I do think that our health care system should be improved. I also think there is a big difference between basic care, preventative care and the medical issues that require significant care.

The problem is that the economics don't work. Upper income folks will simply restructure their cash compensation to avoid the tax and we will definately be moving to a NHS. No private enterprise can compete with the government and they will be forced out of business. What you are left with is lengthy delays in getting significant treatments as well as new methods of treatment.

The US has the lowest cancer death rates in the world, depite our obesity, drug, drinking rates, etc. They are the lowest because we have access to the best drugs and treatments. One of the reasons we have that access is that there is a market environment which enables firms to make a profit to develop and distribute those drugs and treatments.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

Thousands of rheumatoid arthritis sufferers face a lifetime of agony because they are not being treated quickly enough, a report says.
Guidelines state that patients should receive treatment within three months of the first symptoms appearing.
But the average wait is nine months - and GPs are not trained well enough to know what help to offer.


Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk...&C


This is what we all have to look forward to.

In Australia we have Medicare covering all who are unable to afford to insure themselves, and we still have thriving medical insurance industries.

If you can insure yourself you are likely to be bumped forward on the waiting lists, but, as one of the "poor", I don't begrudge the wealthier that.

As a pensioner, relying on the government, I've been able to research who is the best doctor in my state for my condition, see them for treatment, and be treated just as well as any private patient.
I could see the best doctor in the country if I chose, I just don't see the need to travel that far. Besides, IMO the best are in my home state.

The payback to the state is that I'm still alive, able to do some work and pay taxes, and able to care for my disabled children at home, (young adults), instead of the government having to pay the much larger expense of keeping them in institutions.

It seems hard for an American to understand, but keeping people healthy is actually long-term cost effective for a country.

I don't see how you can come up with a bill that is 1000 + pages and expect there to be an adequate time for review of the bill within a few days.

This is just more business as usual in Washington.

I would have to assume that from the length of the bill, that it was actually put together by the lobbyists and protects the interests of the parties being lobbied for, rather than actually helping the citizens of this country.

reply to post by Solomons



Really? It is absurb to you that under the Obama healthcare the STATE, and not doctors, will decide if patients can have certain treatments, and operations onlly if they are cost effective, and if there is no doubt the treatment or operation will work?

Is it absurb that doctors who don't follow the new policies by the STATE will be fined? Even if the doctors think a treatment, or operation can help a patient, but the STATE decides is too expensive, or the treatment, or operation might not work so it is better if this is not done?

Is it absurb to not want to pay a hefty sum of $1,000 U.S. dollars if we do not have, or even can't pay for healthcare insurance?

Is it absurb that in a time of ECONOMIC CRISIS when Americans are losing 500,000 + jobs a month every month, many Americans can't even buy meals for their families, yet they HAVE TO pay for healthcare insurance, or they will have to pay a fine?

Is it absurb not to want the government in control over healthcare when the government is in control of Veteran hospitals, and there are horror true stories as to what happens in government run hospitals?

What is absurb is that someone who obviously hasn't even bothered to research the topic, is calling Americans absurb because we don't want this Socialist dictatorship to shove down our throats a healthcare policy that is going to be a lot worse than the healthcare we have had until now....




[edit on 15-7-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

reply to post by dolphinfan


Nobody can stop this. The votes are just a game.

After it sinks in to people what just happened to what was the best health care on earth, the health care people from the UK, Canada and others flock too because their systems don't work, they will boohoo but it will be too late. Once the government takes over something, they never go back.

This whole thing is based around the premise that good care for the youth will negate the need for good care for Seniors. The whole system will head that direction and the Seniors will be left to die, even if treatments are available.

It is part of this Secular mentality that reduces us to disposable products and the old or infirm to the level of a used car. Too many miles, no more tuneups. Smoke or are a couple of pounds overweight, too bad if you need care. Medical care will be targeted at the healthy and young and to hell with everyone else.

Obama, the Senators, the Representatives and those on the Supreme Court along with high ranking Officers in the Pentagon will continue to receive the very best care on demand, while we lowly Citizens who pay their damn paychecks will go without.

I've only had to deal with the Government one time in my life and I can tell you that this will be a mess like the world has never seen before. You will miss long hours of work and personal time standing in line to get a form so you can stand in another line. You will wait months for simple surgeries, unable to work, loosing money while you wait. I spoke to a Canadian once who had to wait 18 months, unable to work for a simple hernia operation.

I was injured once while working in Grand Forks, North Dakota and had to wait three days to get into an orthopedic clinic. It was a Canadian Holiday weekend and the MD told me that every Canadian Holiday all appointments are taken up by Canadians. The day I finally got in it was to late and I had waited too long to prevent future problems. The parking lot was completely full of cars with Canadian Plates. Don't let them tell you otherwise. Most probably don't know what it is like to get immediate, quality care on demand.

After seeing what the Canadians had to do to get quick, good care, I've dreaded somebody like Obama would come along while one party had complete control.

When these jerks are finished we will have no money, lousy medical care and most of our freedoms will be gone. Liberal my butt! These are the worst control freaks on earth. What is Liberal about that?

There will be people arguing the other way, from countries that have already given up many of the freedoms we still have. It's not their fault. The young people grew up in those countries without these freedoms that Capitalism gives us, so they don't miss something they have never experienced. Twenty years from now people won't even remember any more what they have given up.

Today I called my MD to renew my prescriptions. It cost me nothing, the prescriptions were at the Pharmacy and ready within minutes. In the future I will have to take time off work and stand in multiple lines, then wait weeks to do the same thing. ....and they have the nerve to say they can do it cheaper and better!

Everyone on your knee's before the Holy Trinity. Obama / Pelosi / Reid. All hail the DNC. Cover your heads though as they are preparing to take a giant dump on them.

This is contradictory...its a right and a responablilty? ISnt it alreadya right, right now? right, meaning its your free choice!!! INdeed, are they rewritting the bill of rights? or is someone their on congress confused over free rights? Its contradictory to and of itself.

reply to post by Kailassa


You are misunderstanding. This plan is to compete with the current private insurance companies. No private company can compete with the government who can subsidize with tax dollars.

We already have Medicare and Medicaid. That is not what this is about. This is a move to completely take over the Medical System by forcing the private insurers to fail. It is a back door method to get what they can not get through direct legislation.

Right now today, anybody in the US can get care on demand. The system needs to be simplified and the redundancy needs to be dealth with. The ridiculous judgments on frivolous law suits also need to be stopped. That is all that needs to be done. That is not what they are after though.

You are misinformed.

There was only one flag; two now.

Dozens of flags on threads about crop circles, but none on this. How sad.

It just struck me... if the committees only just made their final votes today or yesterday and the bill with all of the amendments totals 1000+ pages, then how in the world can anyone here possibly claim to know what is in the bill. Has anyone read it? Are you trusting what the MSM is saying? If so, why do you trust them on this issue but not other issues?

very puzzling. I withold final opinion on this health bill until I get a chance to attempt to read the bills as they stand.

I wonder if they'll read the bill before they vote...though it already is a done deal since the Democrats have a majority and they just vote with others with a "D" after their name.

Wonder where they'll get the money for this? I bet that millions of Americans will be happy when this gets past, then complain when their taxes go through the roof (like here in Germany) so that this can be paid for.

It's a shame that this won't work. A friend of mine in Michigan has government health insurance. They won't pay for him to go to a doctor though because, as they told him, "we don't want to pay for you."

I think it would be better if they went after people that sued the health care industry instead of giving state run insurance. If they did that, you'd see the cost of health care drop a lot, as doctors/hospitals wouldn't need tons of money for insurance and lawyers to protect them.

Originally posted by dolphinfan

I completely agree with the notion that the health care system in the US needs some form of overhaul, but having health care is not a "right".

It is in Canada, and I had my cancer cured for $32 out of pocket. Don't know why you folks need to fight that kind of logic.

reply to post by rogerstigers


Pundits and Congressional Media Hounds have been discussing its various elements for weeks. We watch and read the news. Easy really.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


Nothing is free. The money came out of taxes. The taxes come from the citizens.

The best MD's will always go were the best money is or they will move on to other more lucrative endeavors. That leaves the bottom of the barrel to service medical needs.

I was not exaggerating at all about what I saw happen in North Dakota. Are we to believe that Canadians overwhelm our medical system along the border because health care is adequate?

The fellow I met in Whitehorse who had to wait for 18 months for a simple hernia surgery while he and his family went broke was a real person.

Originally posted by Blaine91555 You will wait months for simple surgeries, unable to work, loosing money while you wait. I spoke to a Canadian once who had to wait 18 months, unable to work for a simple hernia operation.

I was injured once while working in Grand Forks, North Dakota and had to wait three days to get into an orthopedic clinic. It was a Canadian Holiday weekend and the MD told me that every Canadian Holiday all appointments are taken up by Canadians. The day I finally got in it was to late and I had waited too long to prevent future problems. The parking lot was completely full of cars with Canadian Plates.

That's poo...why is it that Americans can produce these tales of woe about poor unfortunate Canadians, but the vast majority of us praise God and Tommy Douglas for our health care.

Those who fight Universal Health Care...you're being suckered by the big boys. Go nuts...but up here, if you do, you're covered!

As a business owner, I want to see the cost differential.

To be honest the healthcare costs we pay for our employees have shot up astronomically since we started our company in 2004. It's to the point where it's becoming a huge problem. Something has to be done about it. And if "making it a right" comes in at a much better cost... then I'm all for it!

reply to post by Wildbob77

I don't see how you can come up with a bill that is 1000 + pages and expect there to be an adequate time for review of the bill within a few days.

Of course they don't expect anyone to really read the bill!
The tragedy is that the American voters did this to themselves-at least 53% of them. When one party is given complete control of Congress and the Executive branch, this is exactly what happens. With a filibuster-proof Senate, and a huge majority in the House, this will go on, until voters realize the only hope is a divided government, with parties blocking each other from accomplishing anything. As always, the best government is no government. Pretty sad, isn't it?

Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

 

Nothing is free. The money came out of taxes. The taxes come from the citizens.

The best MD's will always go were the best money is or they will move on to other more lucrative endeavors. That leaves the bottom of the barrel to service medical needs.

Where are they going to go?

Seriously... if the Health System goes where you think it will... what capitalist system will they go to in order to "ply their trade" for higher profit?

[edit on 15-7-2009 by HunkaHunka]