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The planet's future: Climate change 'will cause civilisation to collapse'

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posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 11:03 AM
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Originally posted by grover
reply to post by C0bzz
 

It is a political issue and would still be one even if Exxon and their right wing allies had never muddled the issue with all sorts of bogus reports.


[edit on 16-7-2009 by grover]


I agree with you that they have indeed muddled this issue with bogus reports. But the reasoning may not be entirely why you are stating. They are simply trying to keep this topic the focus instead of all of the destruction that they do to the environment for pure greed purposes.

Man can impact their environment and yes we need to get back to living in sync with it instead of trying to manipulate and destroy it for our own comforts and desires. But we CANNOT change the weather pattens of this planet. Period.




posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 11:08 AM
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Originally posted by grover
Oh and by the way flyerfan I am far too intelligent and well read to hold onto a position just because of my politics.

hun .. i just fed your own words back to you. As I will now ...

WE are far too intelligent and well read to hold onto a position just because of politics .... even though that's exactly what YOU are accusing us of.



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 11:11 AM
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Originally posted by grover
Go ask the people of the Maldives or some of the low lying Pacific islands whether the ocean level is rising or not.

The earth getting warmer isn't in question.
The question is if it is man made or a natural cycle.
The answer is ... natural cycle.
Which means that there isn't anything any of us can do about it.

Like I said - curb pollution so we don't wallow in muck ... we can do that.
Change the natural cycles of the earth or change sun spots ... we can't do that.



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 11:11 AM
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Global warming is a joke and it's sad to see so many people in the world falling for this nonsense.

This is just another way that Government will control your lives. They will tell you what to drive and they will use this for things like population control.

We have the technology to control whatever effects Global Warming might have on the planet. Most technology is controlled and classified by Governments in order to look for new weapons to give them an advantage in war.

This alarmist attitude by the Global Warming elite is silly and the poor masses are just following them blindly.

If this was really life or death then maybe Al Gore would stop jet setting around the globe and woodchip a house or two. Maybe Obama will stop eating 100 dollar a pound Kobe beef at parties and switch to something lighter like salads for everybody.

The Elite will want you to live in tree houses and use one sheet of toilet paper while they live it up.

Sadly, Hitler was right when he said:

"It's a fortunate thing for Governments that the people don't think."

He also said:

"People are generally stupid, if you repeat the same slogan again and again they will eventually believe it."

Governments of the world are still playing out of the same handbook.



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 11:14 AM
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Originally posted by grover
All of the right wing loon claims that global warming is not man made and by extension we don't or can't do anything about it begs the question and obscures the issue...

What if they are wrong...what if we are causing or contributing to it...isn't it in our best interests to take whatever measures that we can to minimize the damage?

As in most everything the right is wrong.


Wow, what a typical right wing attack! Using the term 'loon' loses yourself a lot of credence. When you resort to name calling and such you open yourself up for attack.

The problem with your 'what if' argument is that you are playing into the hands of the power hungry with that attitude.

What if our water supply dried up all of a sudden but it would come back in 5 years. You going to approve the whacking of 150 million just to get to the end of that 5 years? Probably not because your odds of being in that group are pretty bad.

The problem with your 'what if' argument is that we are talking about CLIMATE CHANGE!

Cycles that take thousands of years to run through. We HAVE NOT changed that cycle. And that is not only from the right wing 'LOONS' you are so fond of slamming. I do NOT consider myself a right winger or a left winger. I was a republican that used to believe in that party but has since figured out the BS division that they are trying to keep everyone in. I'm a citizen of this country (the U.S.) and of this planet.

Like I have said before, I agree that we are indeed polluting this world. Greed has allowed for that. I agree that we need to live more in sync with our surroundings. But I DO NOT agree that we have changed the weather on this planet. Sorry, there is too much to consider for that option to be viable right now.

However, I can see a pretty healthy tax coming for everyone based on their personal carbon footprint. Now THAT is the scam my friend. I would have that you, being an intelligent person, would see that as plain as the nose on your face. It's about stripping more and more from the people and placing more and more power in the hands of the people that feel they should rule the populace 'in the best interest of the people'. Which, put simply, means that the people work their rears off to make sure the people in power lead and live more comfortable lives than they.



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 11:40 AM
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SO you are allowed to rant about the left but I'm not allowed to rant about the right? SURE!!!

I have never outlined the left once. Margaret Thatcher is the one who started the whole thing, and plenty of right wing people believe in it. I disagree with all of them whether they're left, right, middle, liberatarian, authoritarian or what. The point I was making was that calling most things right... wrong, calling right wing loons, blaming the right for Exxon reports, is just as absurd as labelling all left wing childish for death threats.


It's probably because they are such like Children that they just MUST have there own way. No I don't actually believe that, but it shows how silly it is.

'It' being left vs right crap getting in the way of science. It was used to show the indecisiveness of the arguement.


That is science...the pros and cons are an issue are debates, hypothesis are put forth and then defended and challenged to prove them right or wrong and then another series of ideas are debated until a general consensus is reached.

But the issue is.... What debates? Everyone just goes, "Oh it's already been proven, there is already a consensus... the debate is over.... it is not implausible... etc etc etc". When that's not the case. The point I'm making is that before jumping off a cliff with Carbon Credits, Wind & Solar power rammed down developing nations throats, they SHOULD be debating these papers. Yet with $4 billion a year in climate studies, they cannot even do that.

"It's not implausible", I hope that doesn't warrant any of the measures to prevent Climate Change...


Go ask the people of the Maldives or some of the low lying Pacific islands whether the ocean level is rising or not.

Nah, I'll ask scientists.


www.larouchepub.com...

www.21stcenturysciencetech.com...

scienceandpublicpolicy.org...

www.grida.no...

www.grida.no.../climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/409.htm

www.uu.nl...

www.johnstonsarchive.net...

The GRIDA one was good since it's IPCC not a less credible source like La Rouche or 21st century tech.

[edit on 16/7/2009 by C0bzz]



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 12:04 PM
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Originally posted by dariousg

Originally posted by grover
reply to post by C0bzz
 

It is a political issue and would still be one even if Exxon and their right wing allies had never muddled the issue with all sorts of bogus reports.


[edit on 16-7-2009 by grover]


I agree with you that they have indeed muddled this issue with bogus reports. But the reasoning may not be entirely why you are stating. They are simply trying to keep this topic the focus instead of all of the destruction that they do to the environment for pure greed purposes.

Man can impact their environment and yes we need to get back to living in sync with it instead of trying to manipulate and destroy it for our own comforts and desires. But we CANNOT change the weather pattens of this planet. Period.


Oh I understand that about Exxon...their obstructionist tactics are well documented...

We do not change the weather patterns...that is a misconception...

the argument is that CO2 and other so-called greenhouse gases which we spew into the atmosphere at a rate of thousands of tonnes a day worldwide stay up far longer than say the simple soots that cause acid rain and hold radiation in.

It is that radiation that is increasing the temp...instead of radiating out into space. Just like in a greenhouse holds in solar heat. Hence the name greenhouse gases.

And it is that increase in temp. that causes the glaciers to melt faster and the combination of increased temp and a destablization of both currents and water temp affects the weather.

It is really very simple...and easily understood especially if you have ever delt with greenhouses of any size.



To COBZZ...you really should credit your signature... Its Authur C. Clarke

[edit on 16-7-2009 by grover]



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 12:12 PM
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Originally posted by Matrix Rising
Global warming is a joke and it's sad to see so many people in the world falling for this nonsense.



Tell that to the people of Tuvalu





This is just another way that Government will control your lives. They will tell you what to drive and they will use this for things like population control.



So you don't think Government has any business Governing?



Main Entry:
gov·ern Listen to the pronunciation of govern
Pronunciation:
\ˈgə-vərn\
Function:
verb
Etymology:
Middle English, from Anglo-French governer, from Latin gubernare to steer, govern, from Greek kybernan
Date:
14th century

transitive verb
1 a: to exercise continuous sovereign authority over ; especially : to control and direct the making and administration of policy in

b: to rule without sovereign power and usually without having the authority to determine basic policy

2 a: archaic : manipulate

b: to control the speed of (as a machine) especially by automatic means

3 a: to control, direct, or strongly influence the actions and conduct of

b: to exert a determining or guiding influence in or over

c: to hold in check : restrain

4: to require (a word) to be in a certain case

5: to serve as a precedent or deciding principle for

intransitive verb

1: to prevail or have decisive influence : control2: to exercise authority
— gov·ern·able Listen to the pronunciation of governable \-vər-nə-bəl\ adjective





We have the technology to control whatever effects Global Warming might have on the planet. Most technology is controlled and classified by Governments in order to look for new weapons to give them an advantage in war.



Oh ok... so everything is kept from us eh? Like cell phones and Internet and Microwaves and voice tech etc?

Methinks you would rather anarchy, because you don't seem to think Government has a right to Govern.



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 12:17 PM
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For global warming to be a conspiracy you would have to enlist all of the thousands of scientists who are working on the studies from every nation in the world to sign on and a conspiracy of that size would collapse almost immediately...

The whole idea is patently absurd....even for a conspiracy site.



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 02:58 PM
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The same lame arguments from both sides.
"there is global warming", "there is not..."
Rabid liberals hate for humanity defies any logic. Yet they live in fairly comfortable caves and do not express any desire to go backwoods, with no welfare checks and foodstamps. They prefer whining and bitching while sitting on the necks of productive people.
CO2 IS NOT A POLLUTANT! It is food for the plants. The richest periods in Earth history witnessed thousands times more CO2 concentration in the air! Those are the periods that literally exploded with life. And supplied us with the fossil fuels. By burning them, we return a favor, so to speak.
A tax on CO2 is just that - another tax. A form of class warfare against the productive members of society. It will not benefit science, it will not push for innovation, it will choke and cripple the already ailing economy. Which is, I begin to think, the real goal of this liberal mob. One thing I can't comprehend though: how do they expect to feed their beloved constituents, the welfare bums, if they destroy the productive class?



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 07:03 PM
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reply to post by grover
 


Thank You for including the names of some of the very masters of the New World Order.
Welcome to the "Double Speak" of 1984 at work. In twenty-five years, 300 Independent Communications/Entertainment/Media Companies became 6 World Wide.
You and many others have chosen the Blue Pill of Propaganda.



There is no "Global Warming" it's Sun Spots and Solar Cycles.

"The Bail Out" was caused by the obviation of the Glass-Stegall Act of 1933, in 1999, by Phil Gramm and the Bankerboys on Wall Street who now serve on Obama's Cabinet.

There was no "Mortgage Crisis", it was caused by infusing greed into smaller Banks, tricking them into over-leveraging themselves into the derivatives market and then the calculated implosion that followed destroyed them, concentrating the wealth to the top further still.

30,000 Scientists headed by Dr John Coleman, founder of the Weather Channel are suing Al Gore for Fraud.

In the US, thanks to Cap and Trade, the Bankers have succeeded in taxing us for the air we breathe and are laughing themselves all the way to "The Bohemian Grove".

Read "Timeline of the Rothschilds", See "The Money Masters", Freedom to Fascism", "The Obama Deception", and David Icke , "Big Brother, The Big Picture".

Wake up Sleepy Head.....Ring!!!!!!!!!!!



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 08:46 PM
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Originally posted by halfmanhalfamazing
reply to post by Titen-Sxull
 


Off course parts of it is natural, but we as humans are pushing it above the threshold... we are making it worse than it would have been naturally.


It would be impossible for us to push the warming above what is natural because we are part of nature. And I've seen no convincing evidence that the 100 years of heavy industry we've had on this planet have done all that much to the Climate . Its verifiable that said industry is bad for the enviornment but I've seen no evidence that CO2 produced by industry is adding all that much to the warming when we have six billion people and trillions of organisms producin CO2 without any factories at all.

We have to remember that we know very little about Climate science so let's not all go shouting that we're doomed to extinction just because it got a little higher, need I remind everyone that we survived the ice age and the little ice age after that and we survived the so called Global Cooling of the 1970s. Whatever is coming and whatever is causing the climate changes (my money is on the sun) we will likely survive it, however there is a real danger that in our attempts to stop the Warming, in our panicked hype, we might allow drastic measures that do threaten our species to be undertaken. Seems the PTB like to use Climate Change to sway the sheeple, and once they get their hands on a movement any info coming out of it must be looked at very skeptically...



posted on Jul, 17 2009 @ 10:57 AM
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reply to post by grover
 


I understand the process very well. My problem with the idea is that we have NOT experienced higher temperatures over the past few years. In fact, our temperatures have decreased at times and in many locations while in others it has increased. It's the pattern that the globe is throwing out there at this moment. There have been times in this planet's past when there was NO polar ice caps and there have been times when the caps covered the majority of the planet.

And the amount of CO2 we have 'spewed' out into the atmosphere over many years is but a drop of the amount a single volcano can produce in one eruption. This is why I find it hard to believe that we have actually 'changed' the weather patterns.

Again, we are indeed polluting this planet and there is greed at such high levels that we are truly damaging the environment but we are not yet destroying the weather.

This is the same argument used over 40 years ago when they said by 2000 we would all be dead because the weather patterns were changing too much and the temperature will be so hot that we will be like Venus.

Yup, that happened. This life is but a dream and I am imagining that the weather is still pretty much like it was back then.



posted on Jul, 17 2009 @ 02:00 PM
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reply to post by mcguyvermanolo
 

If there is a new world order running the planet they are doing a piss poor job and I want my money back.



posted on Jul, 17 2009 @ 02:03 PM
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reply to post by dariousg
 

No one ever said the warming of the planet would be even or consistent just that the overall average would rise, which it has.

As for volcano's you are right...but we have been spewing the stuff consistently since the start of the industral age and it has only increased...the difference being that a volcano spews only now and then.



posted on Jul, 18 2009 @ 03:53 PM
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reply to post by HunkaHunka
 


So who gets to be killed first?
Me? My Child?
I am certain that you won’t volunteer.

That’s were they are going with this, anyone who has looked into this would know that.
Bill Gates and all the elites are saying that there are way too many peasants and that some are going to have to die and here you are like a nice little Judas Goat telling us that they are right.


The people who control our governments are behind all of this, their corporations
pollute the land and rape the earth for everything she has but for some reason people
like you want us sacrifice and die.

If you want to live like a peasant and lose the right to have a family go right on ahead but don’t think for a second that
All of us will be foolish enough to believe a group whose greatest skill is lying.

If you want to save the Earth find an eco friendly to end your life NOW!

Just think of how much CO2 you will spare mother Earth!



posted on Jul, 18 2009 @ 04:49 PM
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reply to post by samhouston1886
 

WHAT A BLOODY CROCK OF COW MANURE.

And I wonder sometimes why I am incapable of taking the right seriously?
Posts like this remove all doubt as to their writer's I.Q.



posted on Jul, 18 2009 @ 10:14 PM
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What I find incredibly self serving and unbelievable, is that most people STILL THINK that it is their right to consume more than they need in order to live.
Everyone is going to face living with much less in the near future.

Eventually, and sooner than most want to think, the world is going to be pushed to the absolute brink. The world is fast becoming a massive colony of human aphids that are sucking its host dry.

It cannot continue on like it currently is..for " the stuff will hit the fan"...as they say.

This is where all the leaders of the world, well know, that they running out of time. Every one is jockeying for favorable positions, and access to the world's dwindling supply of essential resources.
They all know that the population of the globe cannot continue to keep growing at exponential rates. There has to be a massive human population culling. But, where and when, and by what measures?

The bull crap about the environment is all a smoke screen to hide behind, while the "best and brightest" come up with programs to save the planet!
The Cap and Trade/TAX bill will only serve to make a select few massively wealthy and save nothing.

Humans are breeding like rats out of control...and demanding ever more as their daily fair share. Nothing is spared, and everything is up for grabs!

What is coming, no one will like. No politician is going to save the world, or any one group of people on it.

The Earth is our ship. She only has so many stores and supplies for so many.
We are running out of supplies, and we've got way too many aboard.
The ship is floundering, and the draft is to low. It is about to capsize under it's own weight. Soon it will be sink and swim time.

It is going to be a very dark and frightening time as the world rips itself apart during its death throes. We are entering that time right now. It is beginning! There is no stopping it...

Of course you can count on;
USA Constitution null and voided
Loss of individual rights
Absolute and brutal Totalitarian/Autocratic rule
Everything heavily regulated, taxed, licensed, controlled
Forced living conditions and severe rationing
Forced labor ( no unemployment or welfare )
Enforced birth control
Proliferation of "underground" black markets
Gulags and work prisons
Wide spread poverty and disease
Fortified, Gated communities for the uber wealthy elite.
Cashless society
Hopelessness
Despair
An early death for many. (suicide or otherwise)



posted on Jul, 18 2009 @ 10:37 PM
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Originally posted by grover
All of the right wing loon claims that global warming is not man made and by extension we don't or can't do anything about it begs the question and obscures the issue...

What if they are wrong...what if we are causing or contributing to it...isn't it in our best interests to take whatever measures that we can to minimize the damage?

As in most everything the right is wrong.


REPLY: According to recent ice core samples from around the world, and data from most all of the weather records available, over the last one million years, Earth has been in a condition of Ice Age 95% of the time. 30,000 Earth scientists and climatologists say that Co2 is responsible for a minimal effect of Earth warming. If the atmosphere of Earth was a stack of $1 bills, it would be about $37,000. Co2 would be about $14 and change.
Co2 is one of the weaker gases in the atmosphere in it's reaction to the Sun.

Show me just ONE study that includes water vapor.... you can't, because they conveniently leave it out of the equation. Why? Because it's the reaction between the Sun and water vapor in the atmosphere that drives Earth's climate.

With the (rather small) increase in Co2 over the past 20 years, the "greening" has increased 6%, giving better crop yields in many areas.

Mankind has always fared better when the Earth was warmer. The sun is now almost one year late entering Solar Cycle 24. Google Maunder Minimum, and see what is coming to a neighborhood near you.


Climate change? Most definitely yes. Is man the cause? Hardly. In fact, the air in America is cleaner now than it was before the industrial revolution. The result of Capitalism and free markets is that it generates enough wealth to clean up after ourselves.

So, at a time when we should be stockpiling oil, gas, uranium and coal, the head fascist in America won't let us get it. Cap and Tax is just that, another way to take from those who produce, who are successful, and give it to third-world tyrants and dictators. What a guy!!

Edited to add: in Colorado alone, there's enough shale oil to last 600 years. There's a 1200 year supply of natural gas under Pennsylvania, and the crude oil under that state is so pure it smells like diesel fuel right out of the ground. America is awash in natural resources. Many scientists have said for 40 years that oil is not a fossil fuel, instead being a result of high heat, pressure, water and methane in the Earth's crust.

I forgot..... the cool weather in 2007 wiped out 100 years of global warming

[edit on 18-7-2009 by zappafan1]

[edit on 18-7-2009 by zappafan1]



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 02:56 AM
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reply to post by zappafan1
 


Yes you are quite accurate, there are unforunately no facts to back
anything.

Global demand is esimated at approx 80 million barrels per day.

Declared reserves are aprox 526 billion barrels. With a growing
population the demand increases. Okay so lets do the math
526000000000/ (80000000 x 365)
526000000000/29200000000 = 18.013698
mmmm... sure doesn't look like 800 years to me.

And thats not just America im talking globally and without a growing demand.
^ "World Proved Reserves of Oil and Natural Gas". US Energy Information
Administration. 2007.
www.eia.doe.gov... Retrieved on
2008-08-19

It is estimated that coal could peak as early as 2019!
www.huffingtonpost.com...

There are no facts only rough estimates.

Go and build yourself a bio dome and see for yourself the effects that CO2 gas and other pollution has on the climate and the oceans!






[edit on 20-7-2009 by halfmanhalfamazing]



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