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The planet's future: Climate change 'will cause civilisation to collapse'

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posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 10:42 PM
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I'd be more inclined to believe in the "climate change", emergency green bills rushed through the house and senate, and walking, talking pile of pig s**t Al Gore in his desperate pleas if we were suddenly thrust overnight in to solar/ wind energy, and the power plants were immediately shut down and expediently sought to clear their toxic refuse.

Charging more for the same problems- carbon footprints, energy, etc, etc- and not changing a bit beyond their "public image", is a clear indication something stinks, and it's more likely than not the crap we're being sold.

If our future is dire and extinction is near (The day the earth stood still, anyone?), then I and probably most are game for severe, quick changes. But until capitalism is eradicated in exchange for emergency free energy, I can't stop believing we're being sold a bill of goods that's going to fill more fat-cats pockets.

If it all boils down to a buck, then the pessimist in me can't see it any other way.




posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 11:06 PM
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... I'm sorry to burst your bubble, .... but climate change is inevitable, .... The earth's natural state is that of an ice age, .... this is just a small warm spike in the history of the world.

.... global warming will simply speed up the next oncoming ice age, ... but either way, it is inevitable.

.... can you say hooray for snowball fights !!!!

... It's ok, we have a couple hundred years to adapt, .... which is the essence of life isnt it ? .... adaptation.



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 12:52 AM
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What is it with human beings' need to believe we are on the cusp of some great cataclysm. It's almost always our fault as well. Our evil ways leading to destruction...such a big steaming pile of ****.

Please wake up people. This whole 'climate initiative' is simply a power grab for the governmental types and money for the coffers of them and their cronies.

Al Gore is a fraud strategically placing himself in a position to make billions from his doom and gloom parade. The only reason many large companies have signed on is because they've figured out a way to make money from it. Period.

95% of our greenhouse effect comes from water vapor. Don't buy it? spend a night in the desert then spend a night in a jungle and tell me if you notice a difference in temperature. CO2 comprises 0.038% of our atmosphere. It's not a particularly good greenhouse gas. There are many more that do a better job. For those who care, if you analyze the data correctly you will find that CO2 increses FOLLOW a warming they do not precede it. This whole issue is about control of our lives and economies and has nothing to do with science.

If you've noticed, over the course of the last decade the leading 'term' has been modified ever so slightly on a regular basis to try and stay one step ahead of common sense. It's just a psychological tactic, don't fall for it. It doesn't matter if its called global warming, climate change or climate initiative or any number of other things, its the same thing. It's a nasty trap to be avoided at all costs.

If you are truly concerned with 'climate change', pay a little more attention to the greatest contributor to climate on Earth...the sun. Also pay attention to clouds and moisture levels in the mid and upper atmosphere. You'll see very soon why. Hopefully this whole Carbon craphole monstrosity of a fraud will be dead by then. Or maybe we'll all be buying Methane credits every time we let one rip...



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 01:02 AM
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More drastic climate change than that which we are currently experiencing has happened throughout the history of the Earth and will continue to happen regardless of Man's activities and efforts to control the Earth's climate. The unbelievable arrogance of Liberal thought is shown by the idea that the small footprint of humankind can somehow control the climate of the entire planet.

Huge climate changes (hot periods as well as Ice Ages) have happened many times in the past with no human intervention at all, and yet we are supposed to believe that the 200 years of carbon dioxide emissions since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution could turn our planet into an equivalent of Venus? I don't think so.

There is no such thing as "scientific consensus" proving a theory. A theory is proven or disproven on its own merits by experimentation and verified data...NOT by "consensus" or "the science is settled...it is a fact" (which it is not).

I find it interesting that the term "Global Warming" has been Politically Corrected to "Climate Change". Why? Perhaps because in the past decade the world has cooled despite increased carbon emissions (which would negate the arguments of Al Gore and his minions)?

Given the actual facts, why is this fallacy still being pursued at all, let alone so aggressively? To increase Government revenues? To increase Government control over energy (and thus over every aspect of our lives)?
To make energy (electricity, heating oil, natural gas, gasoline) so expensive as to impoverish us and make us more dependent upon Government aid?

All of the above? I think that is the answer. Use propaganda from multiple sources with agendas of their own to scare the hell out of people who don't know any better or have the time or resources to look into the facts...everybody says so, so it must be so...SOMETHING MUST BE DONE NOW! NO TIME TO READ THE LEGISLATION, JUST PASS IT NOW!

Pathetic. People get the government they deserve. Too bad they have to take the rest of the people who disagree down with them.



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 03:09 AM
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Originally posted by grover
All of the right wing loon claims that global warming is not man made and by extension we don't or can't do anything about it begs the question and obscures the issue...

What if they are wrong...what if we are causing or contributing to it...isn't it in our best interests to take whatever measures that we can to minimize the damage?

As in most everything the right is wrong.


Why are so many ATS'ers "anti-Environmentalist?" - My take

As for civilisations collapse, I think it's far more likely that measures to prevent Global Warming will bring about collapse. For example - banning drilling in certain areas then telling us "we're running out of oil", then having the price get skyrocket. Or, the "ZERO GROWTH" policy that many love would be disasterious and even genocidal. "GREEN JOBS?" only if you take jobs and or money away from others, move often offshore, and green power is more expensive on a mw/h basis.



All of the right wing loon claims that global warming is not man made and by extension we don't or can't do anything about it begs the question and obscures the issue...

Stop turning what should be a scientific issue, into a political one to push your own agenda. Science does not have a political party. Additionally, there is tons of scientific evidence which points to anthropogenic global warming being nothing more than a myth. Read the links in the above link.



Also, I wonder what would happen if we power the world with Thorium based Generation IV reactors. Use them to provide not only electricity, but high temperature industrial process heat with applications such as Hydrogen production, which then can be used in hydrogen fuel cells to power all our cars. The technology is still some years away, however I do not think Wind and Solar are the answers - the energy density is far too small, and it is not always sunny or windy - you still need a base load from mostly coal plants. Carbon neutral, massive amounts of power, and cheap (though there is still lots of debate on nuclear costs).


Gas Turbine - Modular Helium Reactor.

The GT-MHR combines a meltdown-proof reactor and advanced gas turbine technology in a power plant with a quantum improvement in thermal efficiency. . . approaching 50%. This efficiency makes possible much lower power costs, without the environmental degradation and resource depletion of burning fossil fuels

Efficiency from thermodynamics

Conventional, low-temperature nuclear plants operate at about 32% thermal efficiency. GT-MHR power plants can achieve thermal efficiencies of close to 50% now, and even higher efficiencies in the future.

• 50% more electrical power from the same number of fissions.

• Dramatically lower high-level radioactive waste per unit of energy – today’s reactors produce 50% more high-level waste than will the GT-MHR.

• Much less thermal discharge to the environment. Plants can use air cooling, which allows for more flexible siting options.

Gas Turbine - Modular Helium Reactor.


Oh well, just some speculation...

[edit on 16/7/2009 by C0bzz]



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 03:31 AM
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reply to post by grover
 


I don't believe Climate Change is man made but I certainly believe its happening, obviously the climate is always changing and has since the planet formed. I agree that the collapse of this current civilization would not be a bad thing, hitting the reset button as a species is just what the doctor ordered if you ask me. Let's adapt to the changing climate and figure out a way to have a balanced society that makes sense, not one where a handful of super-rich deceitful corrupt old guys control the world's resources while the rest of the populace drools all over themselves basking in the glow of their TVs...

I'm not sure we know enough about which way the Climate Change will go and how fast, its an imperfect science (in the 70s we thought a new ice age was on the way and that it was getting colder). I think as a species we'll be fine but individually many of us are in for a rude awakening...

Here's to civilization's collapse



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 04:07 AM
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Reply to Originally posted by aliengenius

Very true.

I'd also like to add that they have been trying for decades to try and find a way to tax the air we breathe and they finally nailed it with carbon tax.
What a money spinner. Because the majority of the causes aren't man made, they are assured of constant tax income forever and a day as it's mostly naturally occurring.
Great scam eh?!!

[edit on 16-7-2009 by Flighty]



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 06:00 AM
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What I find amusing is knowing that for some of you on the right who dis this report because of its backers is the fact that if it had come out supporting your positions you would be praising it to high heaven.



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 06:27 AM
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Originally posted by grover
What I find amusing is knowing that for some of you on the right who dis this report because of its backers is the fact that if it had come out supporting your positions you would be praising it to high heaven.

What I find amusing is knowing that for some of you on the left who support this report is the fact that if it had come out against your positions you would be dis'ing it straight to hell.

hey ya' grover. Good morning.



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 06:33 AM
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Originally posted by grover
What I find amusing is knowing that for some of you on the right who dis this report because of its backers is the fact that if it had come out supporting your positions you would be praising it to high heaven.


What I find even more amazing is that you make this a political issue when it's a scientific issue.

www.springerlink.com...

www.springerlink.com...

www-eaps.mit.edu...

www.bobbrinsmead.com...

www.bobbrinsmead.com...

It's always left versus right with you guys. And I am here linking papers and a couple of peer reviewed papers blowing much of the theory out of the water. Is this some kind of a joke for you guys so you can just say "_MY POLITICAL PARTY was CORRECT, this SOURCE QUOTING A SOURCE SAID SO_"?

The actual report quoted in the OP's source had not been released, and was additionally from a THINK-TANK, not any actual research group. Based on my experience with think-tanks, such as RAND and Air Power Australia, they cherry pick facts then base cherry picked conclusions from them. And the news always misinterprets them.

FYI, science knows no party.

[edit on 16/7/2009 by C0bzz]



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 06:34 AM
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Here in South Africa people are more environmentally aware than most parts of the world, yet we are one of the smallest pollution donators. Maybe half of the world should stop talking and trying to figure out ways to stop global warming and pollution and start doing! There are many ways to cut down. Use less water, switch your lights off, etc etc. You dont need money for the small things... Just a brain! And spread the word, encourage others.



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 06:40 AM
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reply to post by Titen-Sxull
 


Off course parts of it is natural, but we as humans are pushing it above the threshold... we are making it worse than it would have been naturally.



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 07:05 AM
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Originally posted by halfmanhalfamazing
Maybe half of the world should stop talking and trying to figure out ways to stop global warming and pollution and start doing! :


Help stop pollution? Sure.
Help stop global warming? Not possible.
We can't stop sun spots or natural earth cycles.

Did ya' know that the entire solar system is warming? Yep.

Live Science
ATS Thread - whole solar system heating up

There is NOTHING we can do to stop that.
It's definately 'above our pay grade'.



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 07:13 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 



"If we humans want to stop climate change, then we have a huge task ahead of us. We need to stop continents moving, stop the shape of the sea floor changing, stop pulling apart the ocean floors, stop building mountains, stop volcanoes belching out greenhouse gases and dust, stop hot flushes of gas rising from the Earth's core, stop earthquakes, stop comets breaking up in the upper atmosphere, stop the changes in the Earth's orbit, stop the cycles of solar changes and stop radiation hitting Earth from deep space. Our generation did not discover climate change; the Earth's climate has always changed. If we Australians stopped burning fossil fuels, this would make not one iota of difference to the global climate."

- Ian Plimer, Australian geologist and academic.


Even Patrick Moore, co-founder of GREENPEACE, says that it's no longer an "environmental movement", but a a "political activist movement".



The environmental movement, has evolved into the strongest force there is, for preventing development, in developing countries".

- Patrick Moore, co-founder of GREENPEACE.


I wonder why the Medieval Warm Period, which was far warmer than now, was beneficial to humanity, I wonder why the Holocene maximum had temperatures far higher than they are today and was beneficial to humanity, I wonder why the mainstream political activist movement only surfaced after communism fell, I wonder why the IPCC in the mid 1980's predicted disasters that never happened, and I also wonder why the most fear-mongering of them all, the IPCC, doesn't even support this think-tanks claims. How many more years does it have to be, before people admit that it's a myth? How many more years of cooling, like it has since 1998, will it take people to admit? Also, can someone explain to me why climate research now costs $4 billion a year in the US alone, and the best they can do is tell us "the debate is over", or use UN, Bilderberg, funded "think-tanks"?

THe worst part is when they want us to cure climate change buy paying some money to the UN, and telling developing nations that they must use solar and wind power - it's really telling them, "You CANNOT have electricity". How can someone that we cannot afford, be affordable for Africa? I guess the Eugenicists behind much of it would enjoy more people to die.

[edit on 16/7/2009 by C0bzz]



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 07:17 AM
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Watch this, it's quite educating. There's ten parts, but i'll just start you off with this one.


www.youtube.com...



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 07:32 AM
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People. You are not the solution to the problem. You are the problem.
2nd line.

Please review this link:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 16-7-2009 by gallopinghordes]



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 08:54 AM
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reply to post by C0bzz
 

It is a political issue and would still be one even if Exxon and their right wing allies had never muddled the issue with all sorts of bogus reports.

For the record when the issue of global warming first raised its head in the late 80's and early 90's I thought it was a bunch of bogus science as well until I went and actually read the scientific journals as opposed to listening to the talking heads babble about it.

The more I read the more convinced I became. Now I will also repeat what I said earlier...that global warming is indeed a natural happening but that our behavior is aggravating it.

What I find amazing is that some people find the idea that we can effect the planet and its climate implausable...when it is so blatantly obvious...see above my discussion about the drought in the southwest as an example.

Oh and by the way flyerfan I am far too intelligent and well read to hold onto a position just because of my politics.

I would love it to be wrong but from what I have read on the subject both left and right...that we are affecting the climate adversely is the most realistic answer.


[edit on 16-7-2009 by grover]



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 09:26 AM
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It is a political issue and would still be one even if Exxon and their right wing allies had never muddled the issue with all sorts of bogus reports.


It seems to me like the majority of your posts on this issue are mere rants about the right wing. Global Warming is apparently based on 'science' and therefore should be a scientific debate, however most of the debators are merely political heads talking, like yourself. Right wing vs left wing, pah.

Debate this.
DISPROVING ANTHROPOGENIC GLOBAL WARMING.


For the record when the issue of global warming first raised its head in the late 80's and early 90's I thought it was a bunch of bogus science as well until I went and actually read the scientific journals as opposed to listening to the talking heads babble about it.

I did the same, and came to the opposite conclusion.


What I find amazing is that some people find the idea that we can effect the planet and its climate implausable...when it is so blatantly obvious...see above my discussion about the drought in the southwest as an example.

And like I said I find it amazing people never can back things up with science. Rather, they rant about opposing parties, and make unsupported statements, for example, sea levels are rising, greenland is melting, temperature is warming, temperature is higher than it has ever been, polar bears are dieing, and so on. Or they just say, "I don't see why it is so implausible", or "the debate is over", or, "Exxon is making false reports".

DISPROVING ANTHROPOGENIC GLOBAL WARMING.

Why is it that after the U.S Government spends 4 billion dollars on climate research a year they can't find anything concrete? And if you really want to get into left wing vs right wing, why is it that left wings are so immature that they end up sending death threats to scientists who oppose this scam? It's probably because they are such like Children that they just MUST have there own way. No I don't actually believe that, but it shows how silly it is.

[edit on 16/7/2009 by C0bzz]



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 10:50 AM
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Originally posted by C0bzz
It seems to me like the majority of your posts on this issue are mere rants about the right wing...

...why is it that left wings are so immature that they end up sending death threats to scientists who oppose this scam?
[edit on 16/7/2009 by C0bzz]


SO you are allowed to rant about the left but I'm not allowed to rant about the right? SURE!!!


It is absurd to blame an entire political viewpoint (and that is all the left right dichotomy is) for the actions of a few idiots and imply that their behavior is the norm...that would be like me claiming that all conservatives bomb abortion clinics and shoot the doctors...even I know better than that.

Go ask the people of the Maldives or some of the low lying Pacific islands whether the ocean level is rising or not.

It is also idiotic to assume that because there are papers disputing the claim that humans affect global warming that they must be automatically correct...you prove nothing with that list since I could put up an equal number or better that says it does...

That is science...the pros and cons are an issue are debates, hypothesis are put forth and then defended and challenged to prove them right or wrong and then another series of ideas are debated until a general consensus is reached.


[edit on 16-7-2009 by grover]



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 10:58 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


Holy crap, another post that I almost completely agree with FlyersFan on! *thump as I fall out of my chair*

Just by looking at all of the conflicting reports and the 'memos' that the EPA withheld from us about us not really affecting our climate at all, I feel that us humans are NOT going to change anything that happens in our climate.

For example, if the polar caps melt and the oceans rise, well, they have done so in the past and will do so in the future.

If the storms get really bad for a while or another ice age covers us in ice, well, it's happened before and will again. IT'S A NATURAL CYCLE and there isn't one damn thing we can do about it.

Now, what we CAN and SHOULD do is try to stop polluting unnecessarily. I agree full heartedly with that. We should stop allowing big business to make our environments less healthy. We should simply be kinder to each other and try to live as we used to. As communities. As families.

Sure, nice ideals and kind of far fetched but we're not heading in the right direction at this moment so why not?



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