Fellow ATS members, I am scared....

Having lived through other recessions, one where basic essentials went up daily I can honestly say nobody in the West will starve.
This is what we did in the 80's recession when inflation was really high and people were loosing their homes at a greater number than today.
Cut down on meat consumption, eat more pasta rice and pulse dishes. There is the same protein in beans with wholemeal bread than meat, with less fat or growth hormones.
Only use seasonal vegetables and fruit. Invest in a water filter, cut out coke etc, none of them are good for you.

Stop wasting food, do more home cooking and maybe learn to repair clothes or modify what can be bought from a charity (thrift) shop.

From the postings here the USA seems to be suffering food increases and wage cuts more than the UK.
We also have a humane benefits system, which although some take advantage of is a life line to those who find themselves out of work through no fault of their own.

Originally posted by eldard
reply to post by Melissa101

 

Another thing I like about the global meltdown. Stupid vegetarians will again be forced to eat animals to survive. Yeah! Suck it, PETA!

I am not a member of PETA, I am not a vegetarian, but learn some
tolerance of others and their beliefs as long as they do not step
on your beliefs.

The us vs. them mindset is being exploited by the ppl at the top to
divide and conquer us.

If you knew the hormones that are being injected into cattle and
passed onto you and your kids, you might not find it so appealing.

Growth hormones like RBGH are used to maximize profits,
but they cause problems that are not being mentioned to the public.

Vegetarians can eat Amaranth til the sun burns out, there is a lot of
plants ppl dismiss as weeds that are edible but the Amaranth is a
complete plant protein similar to buckwheat.

Amaranth though is very resistant to round up.

The movie "reversing diabetes in 30 days" shows that eating a low
meat diet is actually healthier for most ppl.

So while you may like the taste of some things, they can be bad for
you like pets drinking anti freeze cause it tastes sweet to them.

Good Luck to you all !

reply to post by Melissa101


The only thing to fear is fear itself.

Allowing yourself to become scared and panicky won't help if things continue to go downhill. Preparation is everything, discuss budgeting more tightly with your spouse, maybe try learning to hunt more and really try to cut back on the amount of junk food which you buy and stock up on good quality food, these are just a few suggestions.

You seem like a strong person just remember your not alone, neighbours +community can be really helpful.
Link

Originally posted by Amagnon
I am very glad of where I live - I live in SE Asia - and as long as you don't mind the local food, I can buy a cooked meal for $1.00 - that's eat there, or take away.

Is this in the Philippines? Because local Vietnamese or Thai food wouldn't get that comment.

I can buy fresh fruit and vegetables for very little also - like 20c a kilogram - so 10c a pound around about. All this food is also grown naturally without the chemical poisons.

If this is, don't bet on it. Only dedicated (sophisticated) farmers grow organically. Though the produce is still good because the soil is very rich.

reply to post by contemplator


Personally I can't stand water only after a meal. It has to be dessert, juice or softdrinks. The powdered juice that I once in a while take has aspartame (they all do.)

To the OP....
I promise you that if you are ever truly in "survival mode" and forced to live this way, it won't hit you nearly as hard. When an individual shifts into true survival instinct, it's completely different. Right now you are doing it begrudgingly in order to improve your situation. When it's absolutely not optional, it is a whole different cupcake!

I speak from experience, having barely made it alive (with hubby & 3 dog-children) through a major natural distaster. I won't get into all the details (as I have before). Please just trust in that we are well equipped to do what is necessary to get along on the bare minimum when our lives depend on it. We did it without compromising our morals. It did suck but we didn't even realize it until well after the fact. Have faith in the ability to endure!

If you want some real advice?

I grew up poor. I went through what was arguably worse in 80 and 81.

First as to a job. You have to make looking for work your job. If you are not putting in 40 hours a week pounding the streets, you are not trying. Not really.

Instead of spending time just responding to ads, go to places you want to work and ask to submit an application. I do a lot of hiring and self motivated people who come in when I'm not advertising get preference. If they say no we are not accepting, go back again every week and ask again. They will let you apply and they will be impressed.

In 81 I got a job in one week using the above methods while others put in a couple of applications and gave up. In fact I found a place to work by sending a letter to a business owner after his manager told me no. We are still friends. I sent a handwritten letter and told him that even though I was not qualified, I was motivated and a quick learner and offered to work for the first week for free. He never made me honor that.

As to food and entertainment and what not -

Make two lists. One labeled "Wants" the other "Needs".

Want's are things like entertainment, eating at restaurants, movies, games, premium TV Channels, a second car when one would do, two TV's when one would do and........ No car in fact if you live where there is adequate public transportation.

Needs is easy. Food, shelter, necessary clothing (I don't mean designer items or new party clothes), utility bills and transportation.

Throw the "Wants" list away and only spend on things on the "Needs" list. I'm serious here. Throw it away, you don't need whatever is on it. Not now. Not while you are in trouble.

Good luck

reply to post by Melissa101


Melissa

Out of all you bought you spent about about $15-$20 on things that provide you any benefit at all. Diet cokes and Kool-Aid? That was probably $15 right there. For $15 you can get at least a 6 month supply of Ice Tea, of course you have to brew it yourself. But before you complain about money.....

I spent $45 at our local produce market this weekend. For that I got (all fresh)

4 peaches
4 apples
pint strawberries
pint blueberries
3 large onions
6 yukon gold potatoes
1.5 lbs Asparagus
Head of Brocolli
Head of Caulifower
Jar of red peppers
1 red pepper
1 green pepper
scallions
garlic
shallots
bag of spinach
bag of romaine
bag radishes
bag carrots
celery
whole pineaple cored
lb of green beans
4 grapefruit
4 ears of corn
(The Boys- delray beach, FL)

I also bought about $30 worth of meat, etc at the grocery store (chix breast $.99 a pound - 5 pounds, hamburger 2.39 1 pound, rump roast $6, salmon 1.5 lb $4, loaf bread $1.89, cheeses - 1 cheddar, 1 mozzarela $3.50, pizza sauce $1.59, dozen eggs $1, 2lb bacon $3.89).

So $75 for enough for 2 people to eat for a week, 3 meals per day.

Coupons are not an option for me as they are usually only good for stuff that I don't think is fit to ingest. If you shop smart though, you can still eat well for not so much money.

Originally posted by Xtinguish
Do you have the grounds to plant a garden?

If not there a lot of neat things out there to plant compact gardens. Stuff like this:

www.shopoursavings.com...

I started planting a few months back. Also, if you do have some ground raising chickens is very helpful too!

Yes...tomatoes are especially easy to grow and if you don't have space for a garden, put them in pots. Plant a couple of fruit trees.

I find it's not the food which kills my budget (I cook a lot of scratch meals). What gets me are the hair products, feminine products, dog food, cat food, kitty litter, TP, paper towels, vitamins, laundry detergent, dishwasher detergent, contact solution (4 contact wearers)... This kind of stuff is always as much as my food bill!

reply to post by Melissa101


I'm living on a tight budget too. Why did you buy a big bag of Splenda? That last time I looked at that it was about $8.00. Just go to a convenient store, buy a small cup of coffee, and grab a big handful of the little packets. And, drink water, not expensive soda.

Good luck. As long as you can eat 1800kcal/day, drink water, and stay indoors somewhere, you will wake up another day to live and try again.

Hi Melissa,

I can certainly relate to your OP and my wife and I too feel the crunch. As many excellent points have already been made regarding food alternatives, nutrition etc. ( Diet Coke is a big no-no IMO) I'd like address an item on your list that offers zero nutritional value and is becoming quite costly........toilet paper. My wife uses that stuff as if it grows on trees an we have often quarreled over it.

Here is a realistic alternative we are considering. (read the user comments, impressive.)

www.amazon.com...

It would pay for itself in lieu of 7 or 8 12 packs. Think of the money that gets flushed down the toilet. This post is not intended to be funny, I am quite serious. We have got to think outside the box........and the bowl.

Regards...KK

reply to post by kinda kurious


So then do you have to "dry off" with a cloth after?

I am looking for toilet paper alternatives, BUT I am using s compost toilet so I will need something to wipe with unfortunatly.....

I am trying to think of something that will grow, and then just be good compost after as well etc....

reply to post by mellisamouse


I realize that females have unique needs as compared to men.

I suppose we were just thinking about normal hand towel or wash cloths, periodically done with laundry and undies.

Folks, this is nothing like the recession in the early 80s. It's like no recession we've ever had, nor like the Great Depression (although it is more similar to the GD than the recessions of the last 80 years.

This is a credit driven economic downturn, not an inventory driven recession like all of you are used to reading about.

Things are going to get much, much, MUCH worse, simply because there is absolutely no political will on the part of the elites or the people to do what needs to be done to fix the problem (which is to clear the toxic debt, which would mean suffering through a significant amount of pain).

And because nobody is willing to deal with the pain that must happen, the government is just going to kick the can down the road and create something the likes of which the world has never seen -- a tried and true global meltdown.

No offense to the original poster, or anyone else for that matter, as this is not to be directed at anyone (just a general ranting) but...

My wife and I get a kick when we watch the news, and we see people complain about how they are only bringing in $90,000 a year now, oh how will we survive.

Move to NE Wisconsin for a while... or Upper Michigan. Between my VA comp, my wife's child support, and both of our incomes, we barely get over $35,000 a year. She's salary, and I work in the armed security field. We have had several major employers shut down in the past five years... I myself have been a victim of three plant closings and two restructurings.

Anyway...

Our household is below the supposed poverty level, but we somehow find ways to get by.

We bought a nice house a couple years back that we could afford. Nothing extravagant, nothing fancy. Both of our vehicles aren't new, were not purchased new. Anything we could put on a charge card we pay cash for... or we will do our best to make double payments.

The only thing we have that is state funded is our insurance, which is mainly for our two boys anyway (if your work insurance does NOT cover 75% of costs, you are eligible)... if I could drop myself from that program, I would, as I can go to the VA.

About our bills...

1. In the summer, our electric is around $200; in winter, it goes up an extra $150 or so (and that's with using the Sun Heat heaters, which work rather well, I might add)... and every couple months, WPS raises something. We are on the budget payment plan, were paying $320 a month, put was just raised to $390 a month. What the heck is that? WPS is the main reason why I'm looking into personal use wind turbines.

2. Our phone bill is about $120 a month, but includes internet and Dish Network. Once our current month is payed off, I'm planning on getting the wireless internet system from Cellcom, saves around $30... and if things ever get tight, drop Dish and save another $45. My wife and I have cell phones at $70 a month, which we can drop as well... no big lose there.

3. House payment? With my VA comp at 30%, it's covered, no worries. Car payments? None... paid for with tax returns, I fix my own.

4. Food shopping... the local store, Witt's Piggly Wiggly, sucks chunks for pricing. I go to an ALDI's 30 miles away; dollar for dollar, I'll come back with 3x the amount of food. Garden is being planted next year, a small green house for herbs and medicinals might follow.

5. Let's not forget house and auto insurance. Can't remove or reduce those.

...

What's the point in all this? My wife and I started WITHOUT. We never sought loans, never borrowed from family or friends. Anything we did, we did on our own. Anything we gained was just material... we did without it before, and we can do so again.

The downfall of the economy won't affect us, or people like us. Why? We've been there. We are there. The people who are going to be hurt the worst are those who have no idea how to make cuts or adjustments... the same people who buy outside their means, who never once took into consideration what might happen if one lost a job, if the monthly income was cut in half (or more).

I'm not trying to be insulting, really I'm not... it's just sad and funny at the same time. In the county that I live in, there are more fancy five bedroom houses with three car attached garage for sale than basic ranch style homes. The Lower Class aren't going to suffer one bit, because nothing will change for us. We'll come out ahead because we have things we can get rid of.

...

Now, for a bit of support for those who feel that the financial noose is tightening around their necks...

You know what? I'm sorry, but I can't think of anything. Buying big houses, brand new over-sized SUVs, name brand clothing for your children, (hell, buying anything name brand and "in" for kids is plain stupid), the newest Ipods or blackberries or technologies in general... that will hit you eventually. Even if the economy didn't turn for the worse, what would have happened if you or your spouse (or significant other) got into an accident or died? What if your place of business relocated? Just because it is there now, and everything is fine now, doesn't mean it'll be the same tomorrow!

No, I don't feel sorry for the people who cry out "I'm only making $90,000 a year now".

Again, this is not directed to anyone, just a general ranting.

reply to post by Melissa101


Relax. Dunno where you live but I'm sure there are people in the same boat.

Keep the faith (whatever it may be. . . )

My apologies if this has been said but cut the soda and the splenda please. Look into stevia (plant your own). Raw sugar does wonders as well.

Try tea. You can make your own out of many different plants. It can be fun and saves money.

If you drink beer, brew your own it is easy and cheap.

If you smoke cigarettes, buy loose leaf with papers. That is easy too.

Raw veggies help too. Stock up and can them when they are in season. Cook extra when you are cooking and freeze the difference. Take lunches to work. This saves time, money, and health when done right. Plant a garden. Talk with your grandmother (mother) if you are lucky enough to still have them around. The elders have been through this.

Once again, plant a garden. Depending upon where you are at, there are many food stuffs that can survive the winter. In america, think potatoes, garlic, winter onions, horseradish, etc. Learn what is food... Did you know that dandelions were brought to america as a food? Yes, they are edible! Look in the ditches and around the creeks. Many of the plants you see are medicinal, herbal, food stuff. You can eat many of them (do your research first). Also, watch the animals. Many times what they are eating is safe for you to eat. Once again, do your research!

Originally posted by Melissa101
2 twelve packs of Diet Coke with Splenda
1 large bag of Splenda

I think I know the root of your problems. It is in your personal habits. The things that you choose to do are reflected in every aspect of your life.

First off: Stop eating mind-numbing poisons.

Splenda is garbage. It makes your body work in ways that your body should not work. Google it.

Second: Sell your television.

O.k., that one may have been a shocker. Stop reading for a moment and let your enlarged heart recover before you have a stroke.

Have you recovered? Good. Now, television is garbage. It makes you stupid and passive. Television is for stupid people.

Repeat this to yourself a few times:

Television is for stupid people. American Idol is the devil. CSI is for morons.

You may not watch much television, and if you don't then that is good. But I am assuming that you do, because if you had any inclination to turn off the television and read then you probably would not be poisoning yourself with fake sugar.

Fake sugar reflects a mentality that I see a lot. Let me give you an anecdotal example:

There is a guy that I do handyman work for, he works at a hospital as a nurse. He is hugely fat, has trouble walking, can hardly breath, and that is AFTER having gastric bypass surgery.

He lives on sausage and cheese and cookies. Seriously, I saw him make his lunch for work one morning and you know what it was? A Ziploc baggie packed full of fried Italian sausage balls and a 12-pack of Diet Coke.

When I asked him why he was eating that way, he said it was "because he would rather eat whatever he wanted and just take pills to keep his cholesterol down".

Can you guess what he does when he is home from work?

You guessed it. He watches television.

Stupid.

If you stop poisoning your brain with garbage, it leaves you with more time to try and do things that are actually constructive like looking for work, starting a business, writing your congressperson, attending public events or church groups, and generally networking with people.

I was looking for work late last year, spent around 4 months playing "application filling out job hunter oh waaahhhh I can't find a job" dressup. It didn't work. So I started hanging signs around town for odd jobs and 6 months later was covered up with work.

Anybody who does not have income is not willing to do what it takes to make money.

Quit making excuses, quit poisoning yourself and your family, and get into the mix.

Well, I can see why you may be scared a little, Melissa101. Attitude is everything. Take heart. Here's some good news news.bbc.co.uk... Take this forum with a grain of salt, there are a lot of folks here looking over their shoulder.

If it gets difficult, be smart. We'll take care of each other. It's the citizen thing to do. We always have. Get to know your neighbors. Lot's of people don't. Work together for a change. Split large purchases, like oatmeal 50 lb bags, 50 lb blocks of butter (if you must). You can live just fine on $50 a month. My mom ate lima beans for a month during the depression because a farmer would let them have them for free. Her dad sold blankets to the Indians locally for 50 cents. They all made it fine. You will, too. Be useful. I don't think it will get nearly that bad. Read the link above, and tell me you think it's getting worse. I think the media has us all scared because they like to hype the news.