The Question of Patriotism

reply to post by SGTChas


Marines are on ships for one reason. To teach the squids how to find their behinds with one hand whild hugging the bulkhead.

For safety's sake that is. Wouldn't want a squid sqashed on a nuke run.

And to add my 2 coppers.
I think it will take a 2x4 across the head of americans and a fire up their x to get them pissed off enough to do anything.
I'll attribute this to the combination of fleouridation in the water, public school education philosophy and television for the laissez faire attitude.

However, many multigeneration middle class standing in line for food, loosing their homes and anticipating youth gang activities will fire up this crowd. That is when the Fema housing will be used. IMHO

reply to post by SGTChas


hi there!!!! post from EU...

So first: Comparing to Europe where the ruling bureaucrates try to banish the very idea of Patriotism it seems that in America, along with strong Christianity it keep going quite well (I imagine that anyway there are some "unknown perpetrators" constantli attacking...)
In EU they try very hard to convince everybody that to be patriot is something ugly...not too far from being nazi .
No wonder considering that they try to patch together , and quickly!"the New UNITED EUROPE"( a bit orwelian or even nazi in itself actually)
The problem is the same as with the families: how can one have good social live if his family was not working well?!
The same with the countries: to respect the others, to be the citizen of the World we need first to accept and love our country of origin!

[edit on 29-7-2009 by ZenOnKwalsky]

reply to post by ZenOnKwalsky


star for you zen

Can't love anything or anybody unless it begins with self, god and family, but in these days love and its crop is being strangled in the struggle of survival and persuit of wealth.
Governments, scientists and the permiscuous have one thing in common today. The love of a infertile woman. Population control. Anti-family. And it was predicted.

Luke 23: 28-31
For the days
are surely coming when they will say:
Blessed are the barren
and the wombs that never bore
and the breasts that never nursed!

peace

South Texas here...

Patriotism is slippery because in many things, I believe like V did in V for Vendetta...

"And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission."

When's the last time you protested something - not a Tea Party, those lame-ass structured parties, but actually protested by standing before those who you felt were wrong and standing tall? You can't anymore. Free Speech Zones way away from the eventholder... you can't even let the people in charge have to ignore you in their faces, they don't ever see you.


"How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. I know why you did it. I know you were afraid. Who wouldn't be? War, terror, disease."

We let our nation run away from us. Laws that sapped our privacy, surveillance that can see you looking at porn, sniffer programs that document whether you reach a theshold level of subversive sites... 1984 was off by a few decades - your information isn't private, and what should be erased is never gone now. A misdemeanor in 1997 can haunt you with today's background checks, even if it was dismissed or the conviction vacated.

"There were a myriad of problems which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense."

Common sense said to let us hold out liberties and damn the devils who tried to make us bow down. Tree of liberties is watered by the blood of patriots and tyrants, and our patriots should have been honored by being strong and saying "You can't make us lose our freedoms by fear - we are too strong." But, we weren't.


I believe patriotism is loving what the best of your nation stood for, and making the best effort to help your nation be that best.

Freedom - I will live free, responsible for myself and my actions. I will not blame someone else for my issues, and expect no one to try to take mine. Infringing on my rights will have two stories, mine and the dead guy's.

Free Speech - I hate any who preach hate, but they have the right to speak and be heard. I also have the right to voice my dislike of someone else's ideas. So long as any discussion is backed by facts and truthful, then there is no issue.

Life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness - I live my life, you live yours, so let's all live free and follow our bliss - which means that in the end, if your unhappy its your own fault.

these are ideas, and once again, I quote V, my favorite graphic novel antagonist:
"Beneath this mask there is more than flesh. Beneath this mask there is an idea, Mr. Creedy, and ideas are bulletproof. "

I try to live my ideals everyday.

Originally posted by Xtinguish
reply to post by SGTChas

 

I think I somewhat agree with your philosophy on patriotism.

Patriotism today, by all sides, is filled with much hypocrisy. It's patriotism this way! Not your way! Patriotism isn't the love of one's physical home. It's the love of the ideal's in which we live by. It's the ideal's of freedom which we take for granted. Simply saying it's the love of my country isn't enough, as countries come and go and always will. This is partly why our freedoms come from God and not the men and women we elected.

Just because someone is performing a duty to the state does not make him patriotic. If we told our soldiers in Iraq that they aren't really fighting for freedom, but instead for big corporations and banks, how many would actually leave? How many already actually know this? When's the last time anything was truly done in the same of freedom? WW2? Maybe?

Please don't get me wrong, I am not attempting to put our brave soldiers down. But even if they are truly patriotic then it has now become blinding. Blinding in such a way that patriotism has them serving a cause which isn't patriotic at all, so what do you call that? Patriotism to me would be instead questioning. I find the Iraq War illegal to Constitutional standards (which it is), so would it be patriotic for me to dodge a draft? Or would I be more patriotic to simply nod to the state and march off to war, because the government tells me my belief on the wars legality is wrong?

So you see even the people in the 60's were patriotic when they lifted there signs and burned their flags. Their actions were mostly all kept within what we call our Constitution and Bill of Rights, and here's where the hypocrisy comes in. Most of the so called right wing patriots hated them for it! Why? Because of an idea? The same happens still, and in vice versa everyday now. Patriotism has become hating the other side instead of understanding and debate. This is due to a media working with an agenda to keep American's separated, but it is leading most who claim to be patriotic striaght into hypocrisy, and hypocrisy isn't patriotic at all.

In the end patriotism does not come from duty or loyalty. Patriotism is a product of wisdom and freedom. Patriotism comes from learning the truths of your freedoms and respecting the same for others. Patriotism in America is simply a love for freedom. A love, respect, and understanding for our Constitution and Bill of Rights. That's whats is fading in America. For if true patriotism still ran rampant in America today, then this government would have been replaced years ago.

[edit on 18-7-2009 by Xtinguish]

You are wrong about what happened in the 60's. What was HATED was those who protested and ran away. Those who protested who stayed and faced the music for their actions were HONERED. At least by the military. Chose to be a medic, go to jail for your beliefs, that showed HONOR. Before you can have Patriotism you must have HONOR. That for which you will DIE for. Not protest and run. The amnsty for those who protested and ran should never have occurred. It should have been reserved for those who protested and STAYED to face the MUSIC! They had HONOR. Not those that ran.

reply to post by SGTChas


The question of patriotism is... Are you actually dedicated to your country, or are you dedicated to a falsified, airbrushed, feel-good mythology where the land was a glimmering golden utopia under the majestic rule of godlike figures?

I've found that most "patriots" are, to a man, the most clueless people regarding their country, its history, its laws, and the ideal ways to serve it. They also tend to be the most prone to undermine and attack anything that deviates from their own misguided notions.

That is... I've found that most "patriots" are blithering idiots who would gladly be fascists, if only they could pronounce that word.

[edit on 6-8-2009 by TheWalkingFox]

Originally posted by MagoSA
South Texas here...

When's the last time you protested something - not a Tea Party, those lame-ass structured parties, but actually protested by standing before those who you felt were wrong and standing tall? You can't anymore. Free Speech Zones way away from the eventholder... you can't even let the people in charge have to ignore you in their faces, they don't ever see you.

A lot of what you say is correct. You are wrong about the Tea Party's however. That is part of the problem. Whenever ANYONE stands up anymore it is considered to be a structered protest. When was the last time you stood up to your boss? The Police? My boss was yesterday. At work they have learned that I am not kidding. The Police have learned the same. I know it sounds like BS but it is not. I was born in a different time than what people have been taught. Hold a gun to my head and I will tell you to pull the trigger. I have. The question is will you? Where is your line in the sand? For most people that line has been moved so far away that you cannot see it! They have to learn. The good news is they can! My daughters have learned and the cops stay away. They had me run down first. Didn't matter.

Originally posted by Jerk_Idiot

Originally posted by MagoSA
South Texas here...

When's the last time you protested something - not a Tea Party, those lame-ass structured parties, but actually protested by standing before those who you felt were wrong and standing tall? You can't anymore. Free Speech Zones way away from the eventholder... you can't even let the people in charge have to ignore you in their faces, they don't ever see you.

A lot of what you say is correct. You are wrong about the Tea Party's however. That is part of the problem. Whenever ANYONE stands up anymore it is considered to be a structered protest. When was the last time you stood up to your boss? The Police? My boss was yesterday. At work they have learned that I am not kidding. The Police have learned the same. I know it sounds like BS but it is not. I was born in a different time than what people have been taught. Hold a gun to my head and I will tell you to pull the trigger. I have. The question is will you? Where is your line in the sand? For most people that line has been moved so far away that you cannot see it! They have to learn. The good news is they can! My daughters have learned and the cops stay away. They had me run down first. Didn't matter.

Actually, my boss cringes when I show up in his office to hassle him about stupid policies in the office (gym, actually - I'm a kinesiology guy) and I have stood up for not being searched at more than one checkpoint here because I have rights that I speak up for.

I agree with you that I was taught differently than the people today act. My dad was military, so i was taught to stand on my own two feet. My line is sand is clear - this is my birthright, to be a free man, to raise my kids as I see fit (with my wife as an equal partner) and to teach them the values I was raised with.

I have a framed letter from the chief of police apologizing for getting arrested for failing to comply with a requested search.

I also get hassled every time I fly because of my inability to shut up to petty displays of power.

I don't own guns - i own cold sharp steel. I believe in order to take a life, it should be up close and personal - a life is valuable, and ending it should be more than simply squeezing a trigger, although I can do that, too.

If the thought of America not existing makes you weep, that is Patriotism.
If the name America makes you feel an intense welling up of Pride inside, that is Patriotism. If you are willing to lay your life down to defend your Nation, that is Patriotism. If you do not take for granted the soil beneath your feet, that is Patriotism.

Patriotism is not an idea, Patriot is not a label. Patriotism is a state of mind. It does not have to dominate your life, it just has to be there. Like a shining lighthouse, while your at sea in a heavy squall. Keeping you aware of where you are at all times. The peace of mind that the shore is right there and home is just a stone throw away. That solid ground has indeed remained where you left it.

God Bless America

If you say those words, and truly mean it, understand it, feel it, then you are a Patriot.

Love and Peace

Patriotism is a tool the rich and powerful use to send the peasants' sons and daughters to a war they would not send their own children.

Patriotism takes that natural love for one's homeland and manipulates it for government support.

Patriotism is the justification for murder and self-sacrifice.

How easy it is to manipulate the peasants.

War is always for profit.


[edit on 21-12-2009 by spiritualzombie]

I have observed that patriotism is used as an implement

In the last decade it was UNPATRIOTIC to question the governments decision in regards to war, its motive and necessity. Basically protesting a large out of touch entity being used as a tool of the private sector and private interests.

But now, now it seems the same people towing the line for the FED then are against it now. AH but what has changed???

The layers of hypocrisy are profound, JONNY APPLE SEED COME lately is NOT consistent which is the HALLMARK of true conviction and devotion.

A tool of manipulation, or a simple tool of discourse.

True patriotism does not shift with the wind, but its mask is always a winner real or not...





[edit on 21-12-2009 by Janky Red]

[edit on 21-12-2009 by Janky Red]