reply to post by UmbraSumus
Many would say there there is no self, only a series of self referencial meaning making mechanisms, or a program, no matter how complex, and this
program gives rise, emergently, to what we call consciousness.
That is what that guy is still saying, in terms of the duality of self and qualia.
However, though qualia can only be experienced subjectively by the self, and the self given meaning by HAVING qualia, is there not still an observing
awareness which is aware of or knows that "I am having such and such an experience, or reaction to stimuli"?
If one is aware that one is aware they are aware they are aware, then is not consciousness some sort of eternally recurrent self referencial
phenomenon, like a Von Neumann catastrophe..?
I represent the world in my brain. Also, my brain is part of the world.
So my brain is represented in the world represented in my brain.
And the world represented in my brain is represented in the world represented in my brain represented in the world represented in my brain, and so on,
Which raises the possibility that the "self" within the eternal present moment, is an unknown quantum physical domain of possibility, which steps
INTO reality, in order to have an experience, but that otherwise the "meta programmer" or the self awareness of the self is simultaneously NOT
present, since it cannot be identified in any meaningful way, and yet, at the same time, present, as an the infinitely complex INTEGRATION of the
duality of self and qualia, from a TRANSCENDENT perspective, of both, as the unavoidable and inescapable "I am" of being. And since it's
unavoidable, it's nothing special, particularly when it need not be differentiated as separate in some way from the reality under observation.
There or present, as an observer, but not there, as a realm of possibility, and yet there, in experencial meaning, but one which, if the thing under
observation or the stimulous itself possesses no intrinsic meaning in and of itself
, therefore both not there again, as awareness, and there
again, in assigning meaning to "it" or to whatever is taking place - as the "story", and when we lose the story, in the past, we lose the ego in
Therefore "consciousness" involves the CHOICE to be, and to percieve, as well as the choice to assign meaning, or no meaning, and by assigning no
meaning and refusing to "pick and choose" or to differentiate, the "self" may then dissolve within the "Von Newmann catastrophe" of awareness
being aware of awareness being aware of awareness....ad infinitim, and in so doing, lose the I to the Tao
By having no representation or mental distinction and just being present without judging or assigning meaning, your very nature as pure awarenes, and
nothing more, or less, may then contain all possible representations or a potentially infinite number of viewpoints, and, since you can't NOT be
absent being or NOT aware of stimulous, but CAN refuse to assign to it any intrinsic meaning within the present moment of experience, you may then
adopt the view of all views, or what Buddha called "right view" which is no view at all.
It is very strange to consider that the realm of consciousness ie: the self, is the realm of a known (experience) of an unknown unknown, or what you
don't even know you don't know ie: who are you, really?, and yet one (self with qualia) which you experience, relative to, what can only be
described as yet another unknown unknown which is the realm of existence itself, within which the observer is imbedded, as a known ie: I am. That's
all we can know, but we cannot know what it means. It is both of ZERO significance, and void of all meaning, and yet, simultanously of infinite
significance and filled with potential meaning.
So the self and consciousness then, is really a known experience sandwiched between two equally unknowable unknown uknowns, the self on the one hand,
and objective reality on the other, a quantum probability wave of infinite possibility, which is only actuallzed by the assigning of meaning to
But trippiest of all - is that experience doesn't discontinue absent differentiation, and therein the human mind can become one with the Tao or the
mind of God, gathering, in theory, wisdom (integrated awareness) from a transcendant apex of awareness.
And so the greatest treasure of all then is a totally open mind, the lotus flower of pure consciousness, pure awareness, and presence, but such a
thing can ONLY operate in the NOW, and this then is the power of now, and why at the same time, it's "nothing special."
[edit on 19-7-2009 by OmegaPoint]