What if a new investigation reveals the same as the first?

OK, so let there be a new investigation. I am not afraid of a new investigation, I am concerned with a lot of money spent and resources wasted to come to the same conclusion in this day and age since the government is now a trillion dollars in debt.

If there was a new investigation, and after millions are spent, all the witnesses testify. All the evidence is presented. Bush testifies, Cheney testifies, Clinton and Gore testify.
DHS is broken into pieces and the CIA has it's doors closed. what will happen if the same results came back from a left wing jury, will the case then be closed?

Would those who did not believe the OS concede or would they demand ANOTHER investigation?

reply to post by esdad71


Truthers will never be happy with anything less. Their minds are already made up, and there is no arguing logic, fact, or anything else with them. I wish they would just shut down the 911 forum on this site, as anyone who opposes anything that they say is wolf pack attacked until they give up. There is no point in trying to argue with them anymore, it has become a religion.

They are much worse then the masons on ATS used to be about these tactics, and the admin seems to coddle them on here, which is find surprising considering that SO used to be very anti-truth movement. He even spoke out about a relative of his who was present at the pentagon when the attack happened. Oh, and when they are losing an argument, they change the rules on how the debate is to go. For example, they were using pics from the pentagon, and when I used the same pics to knock out one of their theories, suddenly I had to have a chain of custody for those pictures.

Either way, there is no proving anything to some of these folks, they will not accept any verdict but the one they have already made up in their minds.


Please Stand by…
A truther will be along any second now to attack my post…

Hi. esdad71

Originally posted by esdad71
. . .what will happen if the same results came back. . .?

If the new investigation is WELL made, HONESTLY made, made by
the RIGHT persons, the results WILL NOT be the same.

! ! Look HONESTLY how building 7 comes down ! !

THAT is the proof that those MURDERS have been prepared
monthS or yearS before that day ! !

And we don't say: "The government did it".
It has been done by murderers above religions, above countries,
above laws, above governments. . .
. . . below dirty, rotten, nasty, heartless, greedy. . . ! !

Blue skies.

There are legitimate reasons why the 9/11 investigation was a farce and thus, not taken seriously:

1. 9/11 commission budget was originally given only 3 million dollars, which, after much begging and pleading, was increased to 15 million. The investigation into Clinton's disappearing cigar trick with Lewinsky was 30 Million. So, whether or not the president "had sex with that woman" is a higher priority than investigating the worst attack on American soil ever?

Give me a friggin Break

2. Next time we have an investigation, all witnesses called should be required to give a straight answer, and none of this blacking out of intell reports that might incriminate a certain country. If they are that secret, then get people with high enough clearances in the commision to read it.

3. Of course, it's a little hard to pull off a proper investigation when the majority of the evidence has already been carted off and destroyed before it could be properly examined.

4. And of course, next time, lets get a report that doesn't contradict itself or ignore glaring red flags so it can say "Nothing to see here, move along".

Then again, now that I think about it, we can't have another investigation, seeing how we didn't have one in the first place.

A first investigation would be nice, since it hasn't happened yet.

Originally posted by defcon5
reply to post by esdad71

 

Truthers will never be happy with anything less. Their minds are already made up, and there is no arguing logic, fact, or anything else with them. I wish they would just shut down the 911 forum on this site, as anyone who opposes anything that they say is wolf pack attacked until they give up. There is no point in trying to argue with them anymore, it has become a religion.

They are much worse then the masons on ATS used to be about these tactics, and the admin seems to coddle them on here, which is find surprising considering that SO used to be very anti-truth movement. He even spoke out about a relative of his who was present at the pentagon when the attack happened. Oh, and when they are losing an argument, they change the rules on how the debate is to go. For example, they were using pics from the pentagon, and when I used the same pics to knock out one of their theories, suddenly I had to have a chain of custody for those pictures.

Either way, there is no proving anything to some of these folks, they will not accept any verdict but the one they have already made up in their minds.


Please Stand by…
A truther will be along any second now to attack my post…

Here fixed it for you:

Debunkers or disinfo agents will never be happy with anything less than keeping in stride the lies of 9/11. Our minds are already made up, and there is no arguing logic, fact, or anything else with us because no evidence is worthwile, no testimony is true, don't they know that we should just take TPTB's word for everything...Speaking of I just noticed that it's 5 minutes till the "Glen Beck Show". I wish they would just shut down the 911 forum on this site, as new and important information regarding the truth concerning 9/11 is starting to come out...of course we will continue to debunk anything that they say as we wolf pack attack until they give up. There is no point in trying to argue with us anymore, it has become our sacred religion.

Now, you'll probably get all huffy and puffy about the quote, but one fundamental fact will never change -- you are completely and utterly blind to the world you live in, so either 1 of 2 things is going on, you're a member of the top 1%ers who has a golden ticket (which I highly doubt) or you're ego is so fragile, so important, that you'll will continue to dismiss the facts that treason was committed on 9/11 just so that you can say that you're right and save face.

This couch lesson was free, the next one will cost you.

reply to post by OnTheFelt


I believe that misquoting another posters posts is against the T&C…

The question was not about what non-truthers would do if a court ruled such and such, its about what truthers would do. To be honest, I am so sick of this topic, that if a court ruled one way or the other on it, it would not phase me in the slightest. It seems to be the Truth movement folks who have their lives and egos wrapped up in this, not me.

Beyond this…
Look, my predication came true…
Only prediction you will ever see come true on ATS…


[edit on 7/14/2009 by defcon5]

reply to post by defcon5


I'm going to attempt to keep this civil, but my "ego and life wrapped around it" is because I lost alot of people because of this day. So excuse me if I have a hard time buying a BS story with more holes then swiss cheese. Excuse me for questioning absurdities.

The fact that you don't find all the inconsitencies concerning the 9/11 commission report at least remotely intriguing seriously maddens me. You're obviously educated who possess critical thinking skills. Here's a news flash, use you're damn mind and wake up. No one here is asking for certain suspectful persons to go straight to the gas chamber, all we want is a fair and impartial investigation...hey maybe even one where they'll make people testify under oath. That would be a start.

And I didn't miss quote you, I made a parody of your quote, relax no T&C was intentionally violated...and more importantly no disrespect intended. Just trying to make a point.

There is a reason people want a new investigation.

If we get the same crap then something is obviously wrong.

Remember who the people are who are asking for this.



If the next investigation is truly objective and not corrupt then we will NOT get the same trash we were already hearing before WTC7 had even fallen.

[edit on 14-7-2009 by bsbray11]

Hmm.

Ultimately I accept the offical story of 9/11 partially, I think there was more to it (there always is).

In saying that, I do believe if there is even a single aspect of the bigger conspiracys that has merit, there should be investigations done by a *international* team transparently and see where it leads...

If the story is the same, all avenues of curiousity are addressed fairly and openly, then the matter is settled...

Your right though, no matter how much evidence and investigation you put in anything, if a conspiracy theorist believe it to be true, nothing will ever change their mind...simply put, thats what they carry to their grave, for better or worse. This is a very investigated social phenomona..it is as mentioned, a religion based first off on what they believe is fact, and the more facts are disproved, the more it relies on faith (which is defended more passionately than facts).

reply to post by SaturnFX


With all due respect, if an impartial independent commitee of international flavor ruled that the OS of 9/11 was accurate, then I would accept it as fact. As I've stated in other posts, all I want is the truth, nothing more...nothing less.

But until we can get pass all the a@# grabbin and at least accept that a new investigation is warranted, we'll unfortunately continue to play ring around the rosie with each other.

reply to post by OnTheFelt


reply to post by OnTheFelt


The problem I have is that I used to work on those aircraft, and I just don’t see all the inconsistencies that most truthers see in what happened that day. I have heard all the theories, from the utterly silly to the fairly conservative, and yet nothing I have seen makes me think that aircraft did not do the damage we saw that day.

That is not an invitation to go back over those points with me either. Believe me I have seen all the truth movements facts, and theories. Many of them are based on incorrect speculation, inaccurate facts, questionable witness testimony, and assumptions, even though they may seem logical to the layman. They are just as bad as, or maybe even worse then, the official story.

9/11 commission budget was originally given only 3 million dollars, which, after much begging and pleading, was increased to 15 million. The investigation into Clinton's disappearing cigar trick with Lewinsky was 30 Million. So, whether or not the president "had sex with that woman" is a higher priority than investigating the worst attack on American soil ever?

Now, how many millions were spent by the FBI, CIA, DOD, NSA running down evidence? Yes, the Commission itself had 15 million. However, the majority of the grunt work was done by other agencies.

Originally posted by defcon5
The problem I have is that I used to work on those aircraft, and I just don’t see all the inconsistencies that most truthers see

And this is the biggest obstacle most people have to overcome: arrogance.

Oh, well I work on planes, so I should obviously be able to figure out what happened pretty easily, because planes were involved.

Or, oh, a lot of people saw what happened, and a lot of people investigated it, so obviously they should have been able to do a decent job at figuring things out.

I am not so confident in either myself or any others.

I am only confident in demonstrable data. Of which we lack much.

With all due respect, if an impartial independent commitee of international flavor ruled that the OS of 9/11 was accurate, then I would accept it as fact. As I've stated in other posts, all I want is the truth, nothing more...nothing less.

You want the truth? We got caught with our pants around our ankles. I do not need another investigation to tell me that the actions taken by our politicians for the 30 years prior to 9/11/01 left us unprepared for what we saw that day. I could add a few other paragraphs, but for tonight, I think that will suffice.

reply to post by Swampfox46_1999


Yes, we got caught with our pants down, but in the years since then, I've pulled mine back up.

When are you going to do the same?

What if a new investigation reveals the same as the first?

As I accept the first investigation, nothing would change for me personally. Those that question the first one would be up in arms setting off fireworks in celebration of a new investigation. If the results were the same some would accept it and most would do the same thing they did with the first investigation.

Nothing really would change. We will still see "OMG check out these pics!!!!!" threads.

Its better to just sit back and watch the insanity rather then try to reason with them.

reply to post by bsbray11


You can call it arrogance if you want, but I call it first hand experience.

Let me give you an example of what I am talking about:
There was an article written by some student at some university, showing how the fuel load on the aircraft was insufficient to cause the fires on that day. He ASSUMED that because they were early morning flights, and were light, that they had almost no fuel. After all, showing a minimum fuel load was necessary for him to message his numbers so they worked out the way he wanted.

….But, the reality is that RON (Remain Over Night, or Terminator) flights are ballast fueled during the night to keep them from shifting out of their chalks, and so they are ready to go in the morning. The aircraft then only has to top off at each station it lands at throughout the day. So those aircraft most likely had full tanks of gas, not empty ones.

Just a prime example of how something that seems logical to a college student, or a layman, is not in fact the way that reality works.

reply to post by defcon5


That is completely irrelevant to anything I am interested in as far as 9/11 is concerned.

You can convince yourself that you have something relevant to what happened if you want but I've said I'm not as cocky as you are about it.

Originally posted by defcon5
reply to post by bsbray11

 

You can call it arrogance if you want, but I call it first hand experience.

Let me give you an example of what I am talking about:
There was an article written by some student at some university, showing how the fuel load on the aircraft was insufficient to cause the fires on that day. He ASSUMED that because they were early morning flights, and were light, that they had almost no fuel. After all, showing a minimum fuel load was necessary for him to message his numbers so they worked out the way he wanted.

….But, the reality is that RON (Remain Over Night, or Terminator) flights are ballast fueled during the night to keep them from shifting out of their chalks, and so they are ready to go in the morning. The aircraft then only has to top off at each station it lands at throughout the day. So those aircraft most likely had full tanks of gas, not empty ones.

Just a prime example of how something that seems logical to a college student, or a layman, is not in fact the way that reality works.

Hate to disagree with you, but that info you gave isn't exactly accurate.

I worked as a Lineman at an airport. Our overnights didn't get fuel until the mornings and most airports work the same way. The reason is that if they order fuel the night before they leave and there is an influx of passengers then they risk the chance of being overweight and having to pay someone like me to defuel them.

Commercial jets that fly inside the continentaly US rarely, if ever, top off. They get enough to get them to their destination with an hour or two of reserve fuel. Sometimes I wouldn't even put fuel on a plane.

Is there a moderator I can speak with?