"Evidence" from the birth certificate conspiracy, my analysis, page 4

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reply posted on 15-7-2009 @ 02:41 PM by HothSnake

This whole thread is rather ridiculous..

Who really cares? The fact that Southern Guardian can spend all of his time on such a non-issue, goes to illustrate how stupid Americans actually are. Our whole political process is a huge joke that apparently Southern Guardian still believes in (it shows with his overwhelming bias,) and defends to no end.

You label everyone... "birthers", "conspiracy theorists", "right wingers".. Are we to assume that you are a "left-wing nutjob"? Personally, I'm not dumb enough to be drawn into the whole left-right paradigm, which is nothing but a false label created with the express purpose of distracting the ignorant masses into wasting their time debating non-issues like this one. Whose actually dumb enough to follow a rat lawyer (liar) do-nothing-know-nothing politician of any party? What qualifications do these thugs have to tell me what to do? They're only their for one purpose, and that is to con you. What idiot would pay two sense for what they have to say? I simply keep tabs on the fraud and corruption that they do, which can be a very daunting task, given their nature.

Unfortunately for the establishment, I'm not quite stupid enough to believe the demagogic ramblings of rat lawyers that are supposedly running for the public good, while spending millions to run for jobs that pay thousands. Nobody spends that much money for a job that pays that little, unless they plan on using power of said office for fraudulent gain.

May I ask SG, why are you on a conspiracy forum, when you seem to have contempt for what you label "conspiracy theories"? Afterall, you'd be rather ignorant to dismiss conpiracy all together, which you seem to have done, for the naive premise that our phoney politicians and wealthy elitists are all honest and above board, with no agendas of their own. Afterall, Socialism (communism) were and are not movements of the poor, but are movements of the elite and the wealthy. Why are the wealthy always trying to defraud the poor of their hard-earned money, while pretending that its for their own good with their self-aggrandizing political blatherings?

Your implication that all conspiracy is paranoia and mental instability, just goes to show what 100 years of government propaganda and coolaid can do to a person. The Nazis, the Soviets, the Koreans, and several other totalitarian regimes trying to hide their crimes across history, have made similar claims, while imprisoning innocent civilian protestors for being insane.

reply posted on 15-7-2009 @ 02:45 PM by Burred_Dawg

I read this entire thread, but I must have missed a part, because I don't see where Obama's grandmother's statement of having been present at his birth in Mombasa, was debunked as a lie.

Frankly, there is no proof on either side. I can't see where the OP has given evidence Obama was born on US soil and I can't see where birthers have proven that he wasn't. However, having studied both sides carefully, and from many sources, I find there is much more reason to produce the long form BC than not. Perhaps it won't sway his detractors to his side, but it will sure answer some questions I have. I don't think that is the point though.

To me, the high dollar effort to hide information is the most compelling reason, and the grandmother's insistence she was present at his birth in Mombasa tilts the scales, IMHO, to the birthers side. I must therefore ask, where is the birth certificate?

Our government reps have smelled like wee for so long - at what point are going to draw the line in the sand? We should have done it a long time ago, but here we are in the present with 20/20 hindsight. This seems like as good a time as any to me.

No matter on which side you fall, just suppose for a minute what could happen to this country.

Suppose the SCOTUS hears one of the cases on its merits.
And just suppose that results in producing a birth certificate that reveals he was NOT born on US soil and therefore is NOT the POTUS.

Since he would then be confirmed a usurper, none of his actions or appointments would be legal. How could that possibly be sorted? How can all he has done (good, bad, or ugly) be undone? I personally think that this scenario would be a disaster and result in complete and utter chaos. Definitely, a thumbs down for this country.

But just because that's a scenario I want to avoid, does not mean proof should not sought. Frankly, I want the case heard and I want it proven that he IS eligible to serve. The idea that such chaos could be wrought by allowing a usurper in the office of POTUS is unconscionable.

Much as I dislike him (though I didn't like the alternative either), and I most certainly do not like Pelosi, I would rather know that Obama's eligibility is not in question and then draw ANOTHER line in the sand from there.

reply posted on 15-7-2009 @ 02:47 PM by googolplex

Originally posted by argentus
reply to post by googolplex

President Obama was born in 1961 -- at least according to the majority of the limited information available.

Sorry I corrected date, I didn't really think he was that old, but any how same thing he was born in Kenya in 1961.

reply posted on 15-7-2009 @ 02:54 PM by grahag

Originally posted by argentus
reply to post by grahag

My hope is that people would put as much energy into building up this country as they do in trying to tear it down, we'd live in a better society.

That is my wish as well. As it stands, this issue is polarizing the nation, rather than galvanizing it. If President Obama is in posession of the document that can cure this situation, why wouldn't he show it?

The citizens of the U.S., more than ever, (IMO) have a need to work together, united with the POTUS they elected. If he has subjugated the Constitution to get into office, the longer it goes on, the greater the division. If he has not, the simple showing of the document will make this issue go away, and we can all go on with the business of repairing the damage to the U.S. systems and economy.

In a very real sense, it is a global issue.

He wouldn't show it for the same reason that you or I wouldn't show it. Because we don't have to. Like it or not, we live in a society with certain rules. Due process is one of them. It's not just a principle, but part of the basic tenet of how we live with each other.

Why don't you show US a copy of YOUR birth certificate? I know that I can't get a copy of my original anymore and all I can get is an electronic certificate.

reply posted on 15-7-2009 @ 02:58 PM by argentus

reply to post by grahag

Just the moment you all decide to stand behind my platform for office, I'll be thrilled to show you my long form.

Also, should it ever cause any manner of crisis within the framework of any country, state, county, providence, city or township, then I will ALSO show my long form...... mine even has my cute lil' footprints on it, that's how old I am

If I were running for office, I sure wouldn't spend a nickle trying to hide it.

reply posted on 15-7-2009 @ 03:02 PM by drwizardphd

Originally posted by Burred_Dawg
I read this entire thread, but I must have missed a part, because I don't see where Obama's grandmother's statement of having been present at his birth in Mombasa, was debunked as a lie.

You can simply watch this video, which contains a live interview with Obama's grandmother. She reflects upon meeting him for the first time as a young adult when he visited Kenya for the first time.

YouTube Link

The entire 'evidence' suggesting that his grandmother ever said he was born in Kenya was based on a recording supposedly held by Berg, the attorney who unsuccessfully tried to bring his case up in court. Berg has, to this day, failed to release that recording, even though it would essentially prove his entire case.

[edit on 15-7-2009 by drwizardphd]

reply posted on 15-7-2009 @ 03:14 PM by googolplex

The line needs to be draw some where ,there is total disreguard for our Consitution by the government now. Obama said he wanted to rewirite the Consitution, I guess if it doesn't mean anything to you, you would want to rewrite it.

[edit on 15-7-2009 by googolplex]

reply posted on 15-7-2009 @ 03:26 PM by aero56

I appreciate your post. Very informative. Thanks.

reply posted on 15-7-2009 @ 03:26 PM by Burred_Dawg

Originally posted by drwizardphd

Originally posted by Burred_Dawg
I read this entire thread, but I must have missed a part, because I don't see where Obama's grandmother's statement of having been present at his birth in Mombasa, was debunked as a lie.

The entire 'evidence' suggesting that his grandmother ever said he was born in Kenya was based on a recording supposedly held by Berg, the attorney who unsuccessfully tried to bring his case up in court. Berg has, to this day, failed to release that recording, even though it would essentially prove his entire case.

The recording was made by Bishop McRae and was released. There is also a transcript of an affidavit made by Rev. Kweli Shuhubia from Berg's supreme court filings that refers to the recording.

"...Bishop McRae asked Ms. Obama specifically, “Were you present when your grandson Barack Obama was born in Kenya?” This was asked to her in translation twice, and both times she specifically replied, “Yes”. It appeared Ms. Obama’s relatives and her grandson, handling the translating, had obviously been versed to counter such facts with the purported information from the American news media that Obama was born in Hawaii. Despite this, Ms. Sarah Hussein Obama was very adamant that her grandson, Senator Barack Hussein Obama, was born in Kenya, and that she was present and witnessed his birth in Kenya, not the United States. When Ms. Obama’s grandson attempted to counter his grandmother’s clear responses to the question, verifying the birth of Senator Obama in Kenya, Bishop McRae asked her grandson, how she could be present at Barack Obama’s birth if the Senator was born in Hawaii, but the grandson would not answer the question, instead he repeatedly tried to insert that, “No, No, No. He was born in the United States!” But during the conversation, Ms. Sarah Hussein Obama never changed her reply that she was in deed present when Senator Barack Obama was born in Kenya. A copy of the Tape transcript is attached hereto as EXHIBIT “A”...."

Near the bottom of the page, there is a link to the recording itself. I should think you would have heard this recording. It has been available for some time and a simple google search brought it up for me at the top of the list.

Find this information here

[edit on 15-7-2009 by Burred_Dawg]

reply posted on 15-7-2009 @ 03:32 PM by FlyersFan

Originally posted by eniac
Don't forget the newspaper clipping of his birth in Hawaii -- that was a nice piece of evidence.

You haven't read the thread, have you? The clipping was WRONG.
The Obamas didn't live at the address the clipping claimed that they did. It was completely screwed up ... just like the fake certificate of live birth that was posted on the left wing Daily Kos site.

That birth announcement was a 'nice piece of evidence' alright.
Just not in the direction you want it to be in.

Originally posted by epete22
Didnt Obama sit on the board of the company who runs factcheck.org?

Yep. On the board at Annenberg.
They are big Obama $$ contributors as well.

Originally posted by grahag
I see a bunch of people who are bitter that their guy lost ...

Wrong. A lot of us didn't vote for McCain.
(Libertarian ... Constitution Party)
Some of us voted for Obama but can still smell a rat.
It isn't 'bitter' to want the truth.

reply posted on 15-7-2009 @ 03:37 PM by secretthug

reply to post by Southern Guardian

I guess the real question should be is, who is stupid enough to spend almost 1 million dollars to keep his birth certificate a secret if he is being truthful. for one of my kids to do drivers education i had to bring a real birth certificate with a raised seal!!! So now the real question is if the president of the United States does not have to show real proof then why should any citizen have too. for anything.

reply posted on 15-7-2009 @ 03:49 PM by HothSnake

reply to post by secretthug

Exactly, in order to get recently married, I had to pay some 15 dollars to get some special birth certificate (my real one wouldn't do anymore, for some retarded reason). It is becoming increasingly more ridiculous the amount of hoops that the big bad government makes us jump through, just for the basic events of life. Why doesn't the President have to do a fraction of what we little people have to do in order to run for county dog catcher?

reply posted on 15-7-2009 @ 04:04 PM by HothSnake

I don't particularly like Alex Jones (he's too sensational for my taste,) but I thought that he did an excellent job on this video. It just goes to show what a ridiculous joke our political process is:

Google Video Link

[edit on 15-7-2009 by HothSnake]

reply posted on 15-7-2009 @ 04:11 PM by eniac

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by eniac
Don't forget the newspaper clipping of his birth in Hawaii -- that was a nice piece of evidence.

You haven't read the thread, have you? The clipping was WRONG.
The Obamas didn't live at the address the clipping claimed that they did. It was completely screwed up ... just like the fake certificate of live birth that was posted on the left wing Daily Kos site.

That birth announcement was a 'nice piece of evidence' alright.
Just not in the direction you want it to be in.

What's your source on that?

of course I haven't read the whole thread. I'm not going to wade through x pages of lunatic-fringe garbage on a complete non-issue.

reply posted on 15-7-2009 @ 04:40 PM by HothSnake

reply to post by eniac

A non-issue? Yes Lunatic fringe? This thread was started by an individual that expressly claimed to be above the so-called "lunatic fringe." Let me guess, you're part of the brainwashed, coolaid drinking, fooled, ignorant, and propandized mainstream minions? So you admit that you are both physically and intellectually lazy. That's better than most of you propagandizers, at least you admit it...

reply posted on 15-7-2009 @ 04:41 PM by Burred_Dawg

reply to post by drwizardphd

I forgot to comment on the video link you posted. I have seen this video before, along with others also available on youtube.

Although the narrator stated Obama was visiting for the first time, I didn't get a sense of that from Sarah Obama's translated words. In that interview, she states "... he was very happy to come back to his roots...."

Though completely subjective, that suggests to me a return to someplace he had previously been. Not indicative he was born there, but suggestive none the less.

I don't know if anyone has ever mentioned this aspect of the video interviews with Sarah Obama or not, but I came away from them with the feeling that these were proof of his relation to her. From my perspective, he favors her - particularly the lower portion of their faces have very similar features. Odd, because he doesn't look a thing like his mother or father, IMO.

reply posted on 15-7-2009 @ 04:43 PM by xmotex

of course I haven't read the whole thread. I'm not going to wade through x pages of lunatic-fringe garbage on a complete non-issue.

I hate to say it, but I agree.

The birth-cert thing is entirely ridiculous.

I applaud Southern Guardian for attempting to inject some rationality and fact into the "debate", but I'm afraid it's going to do no good.

The people who want to believe the last election is going to be overturned based on some technical foul aren't interested in hearing any pesky facts... it's an ideological litmus test for them.

reply posted on 15-7-2009 @ 05:01 PM by Loke.

S&F on this thread, very nice work on the research i must say, and the fact things makes it even better to read.

People should try to back up their claims here instead of saying "someone once said something" with out having any links to refer from. That way their information becomes baseless and without any real interest.

But Threadstarter really did a nice job dividing it all out, i really dig it when people do threads like this.

Best regards

Loke.:.

reply posted on 15-7-2009 @ 05:33 PM by Southern Guardian

Originally posted by Burred_Dawg
I read this entire thread, but I must have missed a part, because I don't see where Obama's grandmother's statement of having been present at his birth in Mombasa, was debunked as a lie.

Iv been getting alot of questions over this matter.

This was Obama’s third step grandmother, not his real grandmother and so not a relative of his, neither a close family member. She has no authority as to verify where he was born for they are estranged all these years and that she never had any involvement in his life. Obama’s return to Kenya to trace his tree never really involved sarah, his fathers third step mother, rather only direct relatives.

www.suntimes.com...

-The audio tape shows no proof what so ever to suggest that this was actually Obama’s estranged stepmother, it is easy to get in Kenyan or African woman to say such things and not be related to Obama. The pro-conservative websites merely claim this to be an authentic audio tape and nothing to further verify the individuals behind that audio tape.

Supposed tape of Obama’s third estranged step grandmother:
theswordoftruth.wordpress.com...
The audio tape is not clear at all so even at that it is hard to make out the voices and what they are saying let alone the verification of the individuals claiming to be Obama’s relatives. The audio tape does not really show Obamas estranged step grandmother speaking but another male individual. At little after 7 minutes into the audio tape the individual sappears to confirm his birth in America, and Barack Obama snrs birth in Kenya.

Frankly, there is no proof on either side.

For what? that Obama went through the legal stages as did any other president? I think I proved to the contrary. I am actually yet to see that evidence that Obama was born off american soil. For all the cries coming from the birthers none of them still cant seem to find me that evidence.