"Evidence" from the birth certificate conspiracy, my analysis

Originally posted by mental modulator


Very good OP!!!

I think it underscores that there is more important issues to discuss...

S+F

So I guess you can tell me the name of the Hospital in Hawaii in where Obama was born right? What was the name of that Hospital?

ANOTHER THREAD????

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
he was a man from Kenya,

So what? African is still not a race. It's a continent.

The address given for the 'birth announcements' in the newspapers went to a place that the Obama's didn't live in.

Oh .. and as far as 'fact check' goes ... it's owned by Annenberg, which is a big Obama $$ supporter and of which Obama sat on the board.. It's biased.

Forger Jay McKinnon confessed.

Some claim that Frank Marshall Davis could really be Obama's birth father
and that's why the BC isn't being released. Obama is embarrassed.
Whatever the reason - Obama has NOT satisfied the American people.
He's spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to hide the BC.
Where there's smoke, there's usually fire.

OFFICIAL statement from Hawaii - they do NOT confirm Obama was born in Hawaii.
OFFICIAL school documents - Obama was (is?) a muslim citizen of Indonesia

web.israelinsider.com...
atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com...
home.att.net...

Wikileaks

Hawaii 1961 - 4 different birth certificates

2. In 1982, the vital records law was amended to create a fourth kind of birth certificate for children born outside of the Territory or State of Hawaii. HRS Chapter 338 was amended to add a new section authorizing the Director of the Department of Health to issue a birth certificate for a person NOT born in Hawaii either as a Territory or State, upon sufficient proof that the legal parents of such individual had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth of such child.

3. The language of the statute clearly applies to births in the days of the Territory of Hawaii, so also births in 1961.

A 4th type, eh? All the parent had to do was show up and say that they gave birth and that their address was somewhere in Hawaii. That could explain why there was a FALSE ADDRESS GIVEN to the birth announcements.

[edit on 7/15/2009 by FlyersFan]

Very well done but sadly you are not going to convince any of the loons who are hanging on to this non issue like Linus his blanket.

In regards to the term African...Kenya was not a nation in 1961...it gained its independence from Britain in 1964 so it does not surprise me if there was some question as to how to refer to his father...and someone skirted the issue by using the term African.

Little mistakes happen all the time and the really don't mean anything at all.

No flyersfan...Africa is a continent...African is someone who is either from or lives on the continent of Africa.

If some guy confessed why isn't he being prosocuted? Forging documents is a crime. and again no the only smoke is coming from the ears of the loons who believe this is an actual issue.

[edit on 15-7-2009 by grover]

Originally posted by grover
any of the loons

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! Grover called me a loon!

someone skirted the issue by using the term African.

In official government docuements there would be no need to 'skirt an issue' because there would be NO ISSUE. Race designation has to do with RACE .. not what status the country of the persons birth was in.

African is someone who is either from or lives on the continent of Africa.

... so they lived in Africa, but that's not a race.

[edit on 7/15/2009 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by FlyersFan
So what? African is still not a race.

Again are you a birth certificate expert? Was the term "african" used only after the 1960s? Do you have any evidence to back that up? Do you know the process of birth certificates concerning the state of Hawaii? Or do you pull these assumptions as the all in one to back up this claim of yours?

]Forger Jay McKinnon confessed.

Jay McKinnon confessed already, and thats all we heard, this confession of his, nothing more. Lets take his word and go home right? Its going to take more than some random guy "confessing" to something with absolutley nothing to show for it.

Any guy off any random street of a probably age can come out as claim anything with nothing to show for it.

Some claim that Frank Marshall Davis could really be Obama's birth father

Yes pulling more accusations out of thin air right? I wonder how these bloggers come up with this stuff. You do know that this conspiracy in itself condradicts the birther conspiracy as this would make both of Obamas parents natural born?

Your unbelievable you know that?

reply to post by Totakeke


Get that evidence ready Totakeke, I'd like to see that evidence that shows Obamas birth off US soil. Do that and Im sure you'll get that long form birth certificate. Im just suggesting one hypothetical way.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by grover
any of the loons

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! Grover called me a loon!

Well my dear you are on ATS where loons go to breed and post threads...but then so am I.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
OFFICIAL statement from Hawaii - they do NOT confirm Obama was born in Hawaii.
OFFICIAL school documents - Obama was (is?) a muslim citizen of Indonesia

Thats his long form Flyers fan. I never stated they authenticated his long form birth certificate. Did you notice that nobody has of yet accounted for the long form birth certificate of prior presidents?

I really shouldn't dis Loons...they are perfectly nice birds.

Lets see what will do...fringer's ...nah I like that TV show...

Crackpots...but that insults other crazies...

right wing fanatics...

Dittoheads...

Yeah... those work.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
You do know that this conspiracy in itself condradicts the birther conspiracy as this would make both of Obamas parents natural born?

I already said that I believe he was probably born in Hawaii but that he's hiding something else.

Your unbelievable you know that?

From you .. that's a big compliment. Thank you.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
I'd like to see that evidence that shows Obamas birth off US soil.

I'd like to see the evidence that shows Obamas birth ON US soil.

reply to post by grover

Ah comeon grover .. you can do better than that.
Be inventive.

Example - A few of the posters here I consider to be HAMSTERS. Hamsters are furry little rodents that get under foot and that you could easily step on and squash .. but they are so gosh darn cute that you end up picking them up, snuggling them, and feeding them carrots.

Yes grover .. you are one of my 'hamsters'. So is Budski.
I won't reveal the third poster I consider to be a 'hamster' because
he doesn't know that he is one ... yet.

But dont' feel bad. Here ... watch what I call the Budski movie clip.
I'm sure you are in there somewhere ...
(hamsters and guinea pigs are interchangeable in this case)




[edit on 7/15/2009 by FlyersFan]

Show me the correct birth certificate, then I will be 100% convinced he is an American citizen. Otherwise, you can project and quote whatever or whomever you wish for the next 3 years, it will not matter, I just need to see the Birth Certificate, the long form correct one.

S&F to OP.
Well done.

Although I find the question of birth interesting, I think this is a technicality if anything else. If Bush can lead the country to war based on a lie, and for Nancy Pelosi to thwart impeachment hearings, not to mention everything crooked the fed is doing behind closed doors, then surely obama really could be born on Krypton and no one would give a hoot.

a lot of people say all Obama has to do is show his long form and this controversy will end. I have a different desire. I want to see another person's short form birth certificate from Hawaii the same year that Obama was born, just to make sure it looks the same, and want it to be from another person whose father is from Africa, to see if the race would say African and not negro or something else.

But of course, my desire is meaningless, since I would also like to see the Bush administration arrested for war crimes and Obama has already made himself clear that he wants to look towards the future and not the past, which to me means he is just as bad as those he is protecting.

I applaud your thorough investigation, my only question is, why does it matter? You know he's not going to get ousted based on this technicality. Bush was basically a modern day Hitler and people would have voted for him a third time if they could. Sorry for being cynical but that's how I feel these days about America.

If H.R. 1207 passes, he can start to see some hope return to America. Once the dominoes start to fall, then maybe the top ranking criminals will be brought to justice. And when that happens, Obama's origin of birth will be a footnote to the other issues.

[edit on 15-7-2009 by ancient_wisdom]

Your "analysis" not mine and I will not give a dissertation on "natural born citizen" as implied by the constitution. The reason for all this is simply to say that very destructive powers are now in place. Deny the fact that what Obama has spoken to be the truth has become a lie. Watch some (youtube) as he states one thing and then does another and yet you remain blind. So be it but (YOU) will suffer the consequences for only one name is given.

reply to post by octaviameister


If you are referring to the so called "long form" Certificate of Live Birth, then I dont think there is one. Correct me if I'm wrong, but according this article I found the state of Hawaii went paperless in 2001 and only issues "certifications" of live births.

www.starbulletin.com...

From the article:

"No, you can't obtain a "certificate of live birth" anymore.

The state Department of Health no longer issues copies of paper birth certificates as was done in the past, said spokeswoman Janice Okubo.

The department only issues "certifications" of live births, and that is the "official birth certificate" issued by the state of Hawaii, she said.

And, it's only available in electronic form."


But I have to admit this whole Obama birth certificate conspiracy has gotten really complicated. It's tough keeping up with all the claims and what's debunked and so on..

Originally posted by pavil

Originally posted by 5thElement

If both forms are perfectly legal, what's the difference ?

How is long-form more legal or acceptable then a short one ?

If I am not mistaken the long form will have the Hospital, date, time, doctor ect... The short form just says "yeah, he was born". The short form lacks those details. If he was born in Hawaii, chances are he was born in a hospital, which one? To me that would be proof he was born on US soil, which is the real crux of the issue. I know what hospital I was born at.

For God's sake, John McCain wasn't born on US soil!! Colon Panama is not US territory.

IIRC, the short form is all that is legally required by the State Department, and all legal obligation has been provided by Obama therefore he is in office and running the country.

What's the issue here? Some people want to see more? They want more "proof" above and beyond the legal requirement? You want to distract this administration from the real issues in order to appease your own agenda?

Want his DNA too while you are at it? How about semen samples, hair samples, bone marrow and a spinal tap?

Don't get me wrong, I like a good conspiracy but you are wasting your time on this one. It just does not make any sense.

Great OP BTW. Very well organized and excellent citations. Perfect example of 'Deny Ignorance'

[edit on 15-7-2009 by nydsdan]

This thread is extremely one-sided... while you are demanding everyone "proove" he was NOT born in America, you have done *zero* to prove he WAS. The facts you state are riddled with holes and your sources do not have sources of their own (unverifiable).

Are you trying to tell everyone here that you do recognize the cover-up attempts? Are you telling us you choose to ignore the facts, while falling back on bottomless facts?

The real fact remains- if he were legitimate, he would have absolutely no reason to be in non-compliance with the public demand for his long form birth certificate. Furthermore, he wouldn't be purposely trying to hide it.

It's simple logic to me. While I appreciate your efforts, you've only presented us with circumstantial facts from any place you could find anything... it seems to me your case is simply a barrage of unverifiable facts, intended to throw truthers off-balance with the sheer volume of lies.

Again, all it takes is one official document to put all these threads to rest... why is he hiding it? You have NOT answered that question.

I will be getting married soon and they will be requiring of me my SHORT FORM BIRTH CERTIFICATE to verify that I am indeed a U.S. born citizen who is who I say I am.

That's all.

Great work. The Obama eligibility thing is one of the more stupid conspiracy theories to arise in recent times.

It makes my brain bubble to see people still arguing the case that Obama is ineligible, despite all the evidence to the contrary. Some people just can't accept it, and unfortunately there are always a few who just won't READ THE FRIGGING OP but who will wade into the debate regardless, armed with nothing but ignorance and misplaced conviction

Don't forget the newspaper clipping of his birth in Hawaii -- that was a nice piece of evidence.