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"Evidence" from the birth certificate conspiracy, my analysis

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posted on Jul, 18 2009 @ 01:13 AM
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Originally posted by ShadyLawyer
Again, in Minor v. Happersett (1874), the Supreme Court said that, if you were born in the United States and both of your parents were U.S. citizens at the time of your birth, you are, without doubt, a natural born citizen. In the same case, the Supreme Court also said that, if you were born in the United States and one of your parents was not a U.S. citizen when you were born, your natural born citizenship IS IN DOUBT.

Since that case, the Supreme Court has never again touched upon the issue. Which means that all of your arguments ARE IN DOUBT.


Link for the Minor v. Happersett (1874) so your statement can be verified, please ?



Originally posted by ShadyLawyer
When and where was Minor overruled???? Huh?????????????????????


Can US Congress overrule Supreme Court by making new and updated version of the law ?




posted on Jul, 18 2009 @ 08:17 AM
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reply to post by 5thElement
 


Oops, sorry, I thought you were asking me. Anyway, the case in it's entirety is here:
supreme.justia.com...

I also sited that case a few posts ago pointing out what shadylawyer conveniently left out.

[edit on 7.18.2009 by Avarus]



posted on Jul, 18 2009 @ 11:57 PM
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Originally posted by Southern Guardian

Originally posted by Totakeke
Please prove to me that Obama is a natural-born citizen. I don't want speculation; I want hard proof.


Uh no, you prove to me that Obama was born off US soil. I done my part. For somebody who buys this conspiracy your certainly a sorry excuse for having any evidence what so ever.

SG



[edit on 17-7-2009 by Southern Guardian]


You haven't done anything except speculate. I'm not going to believe you until I see a birth certificate.

[edit on 18-7-2009 by Totakeke]



posted on Jul, 19 2009 @ 01:52 AM
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Originally posted by Totakeke


You haven't done anything except speculate. I'm not going to believe you until I see a birth certificate.

[edit on 18-7-2009 by Totakeke]





You can stand in front of a mirror, cover your eyes and pretend you can't see anything, but your reflection will still be right there.

The Obama birth certificate is online. It has been verified by state officials.

WorldNetDaily, the very site that has been fueling these rumors, has even confirmed it to be authentic.



A separate WND investigation into Obama's certification of live birth utilizing forgery experts also found the document to be authentic. The investigation also revealed methods used by some of the bloggers to determine the document was fake involved forgeries, in that a few bloggers added text and images to the certificate scan that weren't originally there.



Now I offer you a challenge: Try to find a copy of George Bush Jr, Bill Clinton, George Bush Sr or Ronald Reagan's birth certificate online.

I guess since none of these former presidents have made their long-forms, or even short-forms public, they must also have been born outside the country.


Face it, you have zero evidence Obama was born outside the US. There is ample evidence that he was born in Hawaii. He has, by making his short-form public, provided more information to verify his birth than any other US president before him. If you still can't accept that, then I imagine you have difficulty believing the sky is blue.



posted on Jul, 19 2009 @ 12:28 PM
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reply to post by drwizardphd
 
You seem to be a narrow minded fool, there is evidence Obama was not born in U.S. , such as his Grandmother saying he was born in Kenya.
The other thing the birth certificate he presented does not mean anything except he was born, it does not state he was born in U.S. or on Moon.
He himself stated he was not born in U.S. when he receive his college grant as a foreign student for only foreign students, not U.S. citezen, so illregurardless he has at least been caught in lie and this brings into question other things.



posted on Jul, 19 2009 @ 12:48 PM
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Originally posted by drwizardphd



Now I offer you a challenge: Try to find a copy of George Bush Jr, Bill Clinton, George Bush Sr or Ronald Reagan's birth certificate online.

I guess since none of these former presidents have made their long-forms, or even short-forms public, they must also have been born outside the country.


If you still can't accept that, then I imagine you have difficulty believing the sky is blue.


Another thing who gives a crap about Bush's Clinton's birth certificate, that's a done deal they are not in question. Not like Obama who like the BLACk Preacher said his Mother was white trash and he is a Bastard, and this is not me saying this, this is what his own half people said.

If you wanted to do some thing to investigate, investigate his Mothers airline tickets as to when she went to Kenya while pregnant, and when she returned from Kenya no longer Pregnant.

And if you did not notice the sky is not always Blue.



posted on Jul, 19 2009 @ 05:55 PM
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Originally posted by googolplex
reply to post by drwizardphd
 
You seem to be a narrow minded fool





Originally posted by googolplex
there is evidence Obama was not born in U.S. , such as his Grandmother saying he was born in Kenya.


This is simply not true. Have any of you actually listened to the recording in question? I will post the full recording, so you can all listen in:



Skip ahead to around 5:30 or so, Obama's grandmother repeatedly states that Obama was born in Hawaii. The interviewer asks the translator several times, and she affirms that fact. The interviewer then apologizes for misconstruing her earlier statement, and concedes that Obama was indeed born in America.


Originally posted by googolplex
The other thing the birth certificate he presented does not mean anything except he was born, it does not state he was born in U.S. or on Moon.


This is also not true. Have you actually seen the Certification of Live Birth?

It's right here, and it clearly states that he was born in Honolulu, on the Island of Oahu.


The 'evidence' that is being touted (his birth certificate is a forgery, his grandmother said he was born in Mombasa) is simply not true. I have provided it all here in this thread, listen to it and find out for yourself.



posted on Jul, 19 2009 @ 07:00 PM
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reply to post by drwizardphd
 
First she says he was born in Kenya, the brother was smart enought to changed up because he relized he messed up.
You can't have it both ways Grandmother said she was present at birth, then the story changes, I know she's old, but?
A radio station from where I'm at, called Kenya and spoke to Mayor or someone, they also said the Obama was born in Kenya.
I will see if I can get copy of that recording, and post link.



posted on Jul, 19 2009 @ 07:18 PM
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reply to post by drwizardphd
 


As I have shown previously in this thread, we know the exact birth places of every other President of the United States except for Truman to at least the 1920's, I will ask you the same question Southern Guardian has been dodging:

Where precisely was Barack Obama Born?

Not just the City and State, which BTW on a certification of Live Birth are supplied by either the Parent or Relative, not an unrelated third party. Until very recently the State of Hawaii would not except just a Certification of Live Birth from Hawaii as proof of birth in Hawaii for the Department of Hawaiian Homelands. I am sure you can answer such a seemingly simple question right???? Please tell us exactly where he was born.



posted on Jul, 19 2009 @ 07:21 PM
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reply to post by googolplex
 


Its rather pointless as i said before it doesn't matter anymore its to late. He would never be impeached for this.The funniest thing about it is during the elections people kept talking about his birth certificate.When they should have focused on his school registration in Indonesia. The argument would have been simple he claimed his citizenship as Indonesian. Since to be a natural borne citizen of the untied states you wouldn't hold dual citizenship that was all the proof they needed.

I suggest instead of discussing this it might be better if you disagree with him and his policies to contact your senators and fight his bills.Because as they say this ship has sailed.



posted on Jul, 19 2009 @ 10:39 PM
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Originally posted by pavil
reply to post by drwizardphd
 


As I have shown previously in this thread, we know the exact birth places of every other President of the United States except for Truman to at least the 1920's, I will ask you the same question Southern Guardian has been dodging:

Where precisely was Barack Obama Born?





Barack Obama was born in Hawai`i, August 4, 1961 at Kapiolani Medical Center in Honolulu.


courtesy of,

Intellectual Conservative

Also see This


You can add that one to your list.


If the only evidence you can provide to "prove" Obama wasn't born in the US is your own inability to perform a simple Google search, then why are you even on these forums?







EDIT to fix a grammatical fallacy.


[edit on 19-7-2009 by drwizardphd]



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 12:21 AM
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Originally posted by pavil
reply to post by drwizardphd
 


As I have shown previously in this thread, we know the exact birth places of every other President of the United States except for Truman to at least the 1920's, I will ask you the same question Southern Guardian has been dodging:

Where precisely was Barack Obama Born?

Not just the City and State, which BTW on a certification of Live Birth are supplied by either the Parent or Relative, not an unrelated third party. Until very recently the State of Hawaii would not except just a Certification of Live Birth from Hawaii as proof of birth in Hawaii for the Department of Hawaiian Homelands. I am sure you can answer such a seemingly simple question right???? Please tell us exactly where he was born.


What do you mean they clearly gave two hospitals Obama was born at, how many do you want three.



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 08:39 AM
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NM


[edit on 20-7-2009 by pavil]



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 05:24 PM
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reply to post by drwizardphd
 


Actually, I'd like to see the long-form certificate. But wait, Obama can't/won't produce it.



posted on Jul, 20 2009 @ 07:14 PM
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Originally posted by Totakeke
reply to post by drwizardphd
 


Actually, I'd like to see the long-form certificate. But wait, Obama can't/won't produce it.


He can't.

No one in Hawaii can.



Asked for more information about the short-form versus long-form birth documents, Okubo said the Health Department "does not have a short-form or long-form certificate."

"The birth certificate form has been modified over the years and decades to conform to national standards and models," she said.

Okubo also emphasized the certification form "contains all the information needed by all federal government agencies for transactions requiring a birth certificate."


Honolulu Star Bulletin

You guys want Obama to do something impossible. He can't obtain the long-form, because that form doesn't exist in the Hawaii legal system.

In other words, the certificate he provided is the only one he can legally obtain.

I hope you realize now how ridiculous this entire ordeal is.



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 06:10 AM
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reply to post by Southern Guardian
 


Barack Obama wants you to ignore what he is doing, he wants you to ignore the U.S. Constitution, he wants you to think that the parts of the Constitution that he does not agree with (like the requirements to serve as President) are unimportant.

In effect, he wants to destroy the U. S. Constitution

The Obama supporters want everyone to believe that only "fringies," the people that they now call "birthers," in other words, only people that they claim are outside of the main stream of thinking, question whether Mr. Obama is eligible to serve as President of the United States. But the truth of the matter is that more and more people, including many federal, state, and local elected officials, AND many in the military, are questioning whether Barack Hussein Obama is a "natural born citizen,"

Southern Guardian would have you believe that they have bent over backwards to satisfy this question, yet from the very beginning all we have ever asked of him, is that he give us the same courtesy to show his vaulted BC they demanded would be nothing short of acceptable insisting McCain produce his.

McCain seemed to do the incredible! He did somethingthe American people asked for when seeking the very Job it is to defend the constitution.

Obama doesn't defend it, he hides from it.


Fact: The USJF had subpoenaed the records of Barack Hussein Obama from Occidental College in California, but, Obama's lawyers petitioned the Courtwhich then blockedfrom obtaining those critical records.

What is in those records? We don't know. But the Obama legal team pulled out all of the stops to block the subpoena, so we believe that there is something in those records that bears on the critical issue of whether Barack Obama is eligible to serve as President of the United States.


FACT: We DO know that Barack Obama's paternal step-grandmother has proclaimed that she was present at his birth in Mombasa, in what is now Kenya, in Africa!

We DO know that a fake birth certificate was put up on the Obama website!

We DO know that Mr. Obama's legal team is doing everything that it can, in every case filed over this issue, to make sure that no one has access to his birth certificate.

We DO know that Mr. Obama's legal team is doing everything that it can, in the California case, to make sure that no one has access to his college records.


FACT: in 2005, was a law firm with ties to Mr. Obama researching the question as to how to evade the requirements of Article II of the United States Constitution, regarding the requirements to serve as President. 2005? Three years before the Presidential campaign?


And then there's the statements made by representatives of the State of Hawaii!

According to Dr. Chiyome Fukino, of the State of Hawaii's Department of Health,

"Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawaii, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama's original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures."

It is that very record that USJF financed lawsuits in Mississippi and in Hawaii were seeking to force into the public arena! But Obama's attorneys, and his allies in state government, stopped those efforts

If the State of Hawaii has it, then why can't we see it?

They didn't even tell us it was a hawaian BC and did nothing to substantiate the colb which isn't even acceptable for squatters rights in Hawaii much less having the kind of responsibility and security clearance the POTUS has.

Maybe this is what is wrong with the DNC as they seem to have a very casual lax standard of screening.

SG would have said a Document written in crayon is acceptable. He criticized the news source "WND" for bias then uses an annenburg owned website loyal to Obimboand expects us to not see the hypocricy in this.

We are not saying that Barack Hussein Obama is not eligible SG,,

The problem is we just don't know


[edit on 21-7-2009 by Cypher-X]



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 06:20 AM
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Originally posted by drwizardphd

You can add that one to your list.


If the only evidence you can provide to "prove" Obama wasn't born in the US is your own inability to perform a simple Google search, then why are you even on these forums?


You talk as if that "stuff" you call evidence is something we have already shown in this thread is not evidence at all.

All of that "stuff" flyers fan and several others have already taken it apart. Oh and it isn't OUR fault the DNC was re-miss in their responsibility to respond in kind with the same Vaulted BC they demanded of McCain.

Where are you getting this tripe about he can't legally obtain his VBC? HA HA HA HA


The only difference was,, McCain didn't want to deceive the voters and Obama??? Well what can I say, he has broken every single campaign promise, reneged on the things he said he wouldn't do but LIE about his place of BIRTH!

Oh now that would just be going over the line for a guy like him






[edit on 21-7-2009 by Cypher-X]



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 06:34 AM
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Originally posted by dragonridr


Its rather pointless as i said before it doesn't matter anymore its to late. He would never be impeached for this.


Are you serious? If he isn't eligible, he damn sure better be impeached. No he should be gotten rid through a more serious form of ridding federal elected officials, EXPULSION

Then we don't have to wait through a impeachement and their is no risk as he has proven all along in a situation like that, this was nothing less than thde most heinous act of pre-meditated fraud to usurp the office of POTUS in history. He will be known to everyone that is is a liar and cannot be trusted. All the legislation that he signed would be null and void.

How can you just assume people will keep taking this crap from them without so much as sighing a cynical defeatist attitude assuming it is all water under the bridge



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 08:30 AM
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peoplespassions.org...



However, contrary to what the few media outlets who are giving this outrageous claim any attention at all have concurred, what the Obama campaign supplied was not, in fact, a "birth certificate". What they supplied was actually a "Certificate of Live Birth." There is a major difference between a "birth certificate" and a "Certificate of Live Birth." Aside from the level of detail differentiating the documents (hospital of record, doctor, height, weight, etc) - in the state of Hawaii, one authenticates natural born citizenship, and the other doesn't. This part is important, and again - it has nothing to do with tin foil hats. Per the State of Hawaii's Department of Health, "Amended certificates of birth may be prepared and filed with the Department of Health, as provided by law, for 1) a person born in Hawaii who already has a birth certificate filed with the Department of Health or 2) a person born in a foreign country." (For citation purposes, please feel free to visit their site: hawaii.gov...) Why is this important? The "Certificate of Live Birth" provided by Obama, is in fact, a derivative of the "Amended certificates of birth" they site. Why is that important? Because per the second clause in the above citation, while you may earn citizenship via such a document, you do not necessarily earn "natural born" citizenship. "Natural born citizenship" is what is required to be eligible to be considered for the Presidency, per the United States Constitution. So where does this leave us? Well for starters, it leaves many of us....some in tin foil hats, some not....wondering why the Obama campaign did not supply the definitive, actual, long-form birth certificate. Contentions are, because one such authentic certificate does not exist.


Where did it slip through the cracks?




When the Obama campaign, after several unrequited requests, did finally submit the "Certificate of Live Birth", in an effort to more formally properly vet and lend credence to the Senator's run for the Presidency - which governing body did they submit it to? Was it to the Board of Elections? No, not there. Was it to the Federal Elections Commission? No, not there either. Well then it must have been to the Democratic National Committee, right? Wrong again. The Obama campaign chose as their advocate-for-legitimacy, none other than www.factcheck.org. Yes, a non-governing, unofficial website. Adding further mystification and fuel to the "conspiracy whack job" fire....like it or not, www.factcheck.org is a product and entity of the Annenberg Foundation; the very foundation that coupled Barack Obama with Bill Ayers, and Senator Obama worked so vigorously to denounce. "Hey, come on. Now you're just getting too far fetched." Facts are facts. However, let's get away from the fact that the sole body the Obama campaign relied on to provide legitimacy to his "Certificate of Live Birth" was birthed itself, from the very Foundation that partnered Senator Obama with Bill Ayers. There is still yet another legitimate question, barring that fact: Why a website?.... Why not the Board of Elections? Why not the Federal Election Commission? Why not the Democratic National Committee? It may very well be because they likely chose not to draw undue attention to "proof" that they ultimately knew was accompanied by zero actual credibility. By handing a "Certificate of Live Birth" over to a true governing body as "proof", the burden is then on that governing body to put their own credibility on the line and provide advocacy for that proof. Rather, however, given the illegitimacy of a "Certificate of Live Birth" as being proof of anything at all regarding natural born citizenship, they would have been forced to effectively say, "This means nothing. And now that you've brought it our attention, and asked for us to put our name on the line as complicit in validating your 'natural born citizenship', we're going to need the actual birth certificate. And if you can't provide it, apologetically, we absolutely can't cite what you've given us as validation." So what did they do? They sent it to www.factcheck.org, knowing full well it would be embraced and credited by the allegedly non-partisan website. And who stepped up after that and asked questions? No one. Wait, that's wrong....the "nut job, tin foil-hat-wearing right wing conspiracy theorists" did.


[edit on 21-7-2009 by Totakeke]



posted on Jul, 21 2009 @ 08:53 AM
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reply to post by Totakeke
 


WoW! That was some piece of work there totake! I have asked who in the DNC or what names of any election committee members who alleged to have vetted Mr. Obama, and to date No one knows.

Now we know why .

The entire thing is like I said it was in yet another thread about Obama. Everyone knows he is legitimate because someonre else told them he was and that guy knows because someone told him who knew someone who told them and so on.

PffffT Factcheck.org,, ha ha ha Oh My God! If Factcheck said it,, well. you just KNOW it's true, eh lilitiu. Factcheck.org makes fox AND wnd look
infallible with impeccable credibility .

What has always baffled me is how they keep reading things into fukino's very banal and purposely ambiguous statments about the "valid BC on file.

Well this pretty much cinches it and if it doesn't, then they will continue to get just what they deserve. More of the Bush doctrine to the letter only expanded and accelerated. Great Post, I will be quoting from it and you, often.



[edit on 21-7-2009 by Cypher-X]



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