Freemasonry is unChristian

reply to post by BeccaFace


"Adam tried to hide from God, but God being all knowing as he is, knew where he was and still he was cast out of the Garden of Eden. Man is made in the image of God, so to hide anything period is blasphemic and disrespectful"
If I read you correctly one CANNOT hide anything from God so how can NOT hiding anything from God be blasphemic and disrespectful?
Some of the nicest, kindest people I have ever known are masons and would go out of their way to be good and helpful!
You just sound scared, scared of anything you don't understand or which you feel undermines your faith! Have you ever heard a mason saying that Christianity is satanic? No, because they believe each to his own?
Just because I don't go to church every Sunday doesn't make me any less religious than you, any less worthy than you! I am closer to MY God when I am in nature than most people who go to church on Sundays to show off the new hat, the new car, the new dress or suit and then go home and swear, beat their wives, abuse animals etc, etc etc! But they will go to "heaven" just because they go church? I don't think so!

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

Why would god think freemasonry unholy? Well, first of all theres the links to occultism and satanism. Even if the Pike references to Lucifer can be misconstrued some masons still delight in the mysticism and secrecy. You only have to look at how various churches see the freemasons to realise that if god thinks along the same lines as those who worship him then the brotherhood would almost certainly be seen as unholy.

Baptist leaders have referred to Freemasonry as “an ungodly brotherhood of satanic darkness”; “there is an inherent incompatibility between Masonry and the Christian faith”; “there is a great danger that the Christian Mason may find himself compromising his allegiance to Jesus.” (The Baptist Union of Scotland, 1965).



Lutherans say “Masonry amounts to idolatry.” (Missouri Synod, 1959).



Presbyterians: “Masonry is a religious institution and as such is definitely anti-Christian.” (General Assembly, Rochester, 1942).



Methodists: “There is a great danger that the Christian who becomes a Freemason will find himself compromising his Christian beliefs. Methodists should not become Masons.” (General Assembly, London, 1985).



The Church of England: “A number of very fundamental reasons to question the compatibility of Freemasonry with Christianity.” (General Synod, London, 1987 ~ where several members of the committee were Masons!)



Russian Orthodox Church: “Any Orthodox who joins Masonry loses all the right and privileges of his membership in the Church.” (Strange Altars, Acker, page 60).



Roman Catholic Archbishop Emanuel Milingo: “We are now in the last days of Satan’s reign and he is working overtime through his agents to complete the takeover of the world. His agents are nothing less than the Freemasons who have permeated to the very heart of Christ’s Church. It is the task of Freemasons to lull Christians, especially priests, into believing that the Devil and his demons do not exist. Satan plays with priests like toys when they do not believe in him. After the last war bring young Freemasons were placed in seminaries around the world. These agents of Satan were waiting for their time to come. … The Freemason antichrists became priests for this purpose. They aim to take religious power throughout the world, just as they have taken economic and political power.” (Powers of Darkness, Powers of Light, Cornwell, 1991).

That's why I said that freemasons don't care what others think about them as they see themselves as being outside the pettiness of organised religion. As long as they believe in a supreme being that's all that matters.

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.

Why would god think freemasonry unholy? Well, first of all theres the links to occultism and satanism.

I would concede links to occultism, but find the notion of a link to satanism preposterous.

Baptist leaders have referred to Freemasonry as “an ungodly brotherhood of satanic darkness”;

Baptist leaders also have been among the highest Masons.

Lutherans say “Masonry amounts to idolatry.” (Missouri Synod, 1959).

Lutherans have also been among the highest Masons.

Presbyterians: “Masonry is a religious institution and as such is definitely anti-Christian.” (General Assembly, Rochester, 1942).

The Presbyterian minister and theologian James Anderson was the first Grand Chaplain of the Grand Lodge of England, and authored the Constitutions.

Methodists: “There is a great danger that the Christian who becomes a Freemason will find himself compromising his Christian beliefs. Methodists should not become Masons.” (General Assembly, London, 1985).

Illustrious Brother Carl Sanders, 33°, Grand Cross, was a bishop in the Methodist Church, and Grand Chaplain of the Supreme Council 33° of the Scottish Rite for the Southern Jurisdiction of the United States.

The Church of England: “A number of very fundamental reasons to question the compatibility of Freemasonry with Christianity.”

The Right Reverend Geoffrey Fisher, Archbishop of Canterbury, was a very active Mason.

Russian Orthodox Church: “Any Orthodox who joins Masonry loses all the right and privileges of his membership in the Church.” (Strange Altars, Acker, page 60).

The Orthodox and Romanists proscribe Masonry.

reply to post by Masonic Light

Totally agree with your reply. I'm not out to demonise anyone I'm just answering Augustus' question. The christian faith seems to be saying that freemasonry and christianity are not compatible but it seems that decision is ultimately up to the person concerned. If they feel there's no problem then so be it. . .
As for the satanism reference. This goes back to an old argument I had a long time ago on another thread. It revolved around Albert Pikes reference to Lucifer. . . Although we agreed that Pike "may" not have meant it in the way it come across the fact is that others may have taken his words literally and believe that freemasonry is a good way into satanism. Therefore those links are still there, but that's not the fault of modern day masonry.

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
Why would god think freemasonry unholy? Well, first of all theres the links to occultism and satanism.

Occultism does not equate to evil or unholiness. Any links of Masonry to Satanism are absurd, Satanism is, as far as I am concerned, completely incompatible with Masonry.

Even if the Pike references to Lucifer can be misconstrued some masons still delight in the mysticism and secrecy.

'Delighting in mysticism and secrecy', even if true, are not unholy.

You only have to look at how various churches see the freemasons to realise that if god thinks along the same lines as those who worship him then the brotherhood would almost certainly be seen as unholy.

You are again presupposing what God may think based solely on your antrhopomorphic viewpoints. Why are we to assume that somehow God must ascribe to the same views and standpoints as that of organized religion?

That fact the religious zealots denounce Masonry only makes me more confident that Maosnry is not unholy or evil and that Brotherly Love, no matter what the persons faith in question may be, is closer to what God may actually believe then any religious leader's preachings.






[edit on 13-8-2009 by AugustusMasonicus]

Well, I think your avatar says a lot. You're an evangelistic Christian,right? You believe in the "rapture" and all of that phooey that isn't even biblical at all,right?

I watch all of this anti-Masonic drivel come on the net, and quite honestly, I don't buy it. Of course, I have actually bothered to read the works of people like Albert Pike and Manly P. Hall, so, I understand what the Masons are actually about.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

Why are we to assume that somehow God must ascribe to the same views and standpoints as that of organized religion?

But religion is there to spread gods word!!! Therefore they are bound to have studied his word and understand the complexities of what he stood for and believed. Isn't that obvious? People join the church because they are in search of peace of mind and want to be nearer to god. Are you saying that organised religion doesn't understand the word of god?

reply to post by Mintwithahole.


I have noticed a trend with quite a few of my brethren here on ATS. It seems as if we had a fall out with organized religion. I personally am disgusted with the way it seems to be a business and is much more interested in building a bigger church then building a better soul or building a true relationship with God. And don't even get started on the "my religion is the only one going to heaven" thing. That has to be the silliest thing I have ever come across. The God I believe in and love is a loving God who welcomes anyone that believes in him. I don't know how he deals with the sinners or those who have sinned more than others, but that isn't my problem. I just have to be the best I can be and let him take care of the rest. that is far from the Christian ideals that have been taught in organized religion, but then again, I don't care. So I am unChristian I guess.

reply to post by network dude

Well said. I'm not the slightest bit religious but I would describe myself as spiritual. I try not to hurt anyone or insult anyone intentionally and do my best to keep smiling and be helpful. I do believe in god but my god seems different to the spiteful, my way or the highway kind of god which some catholics pray to.
I would like to think that when I eventually meet my maker he's not going to cast me into the pit of fire just because I didn't spend all my time in church worshipping him. If that is the god I end up meeting I honestly don't think I'd want to be a part of it and would most likely jump into the fires of damnation myself!

reply to post by Mintwithahole.


I had a meal with some Hare Krishnas last week. It was a "Karma Free" meal in which nothing had to die to provide it!

Anyway, I asked a lot of questions. An interesting concept to me was that they prepare themselves for their "spiritual" life by praying and worshipping during this life. In the afterlife, that is what people do. They spend all their hours worshipping and serving the all-powerful, so you better learn to like it now!

I don't plan on becoming a Hare Krishna, but the food was good, they can't let you go away hungry, and that explanation for worship was a new one for me! (Previously, "worship" was one of my problems with organized religion. I don't see why an all-powerful being would have a need for our approval or worship.)

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
But religion is there to spread gods word!!!

Religion and organzied religion are two very different things.

Therefore they are bound to have studied his word and understand the complexities of what he stood for and believed. Isn't that obvious?

No, not that obvious to me. Without getting into a theological debate I do not think the 'experts' completely focus on why God might have put us here. namely free will and the use of the same. Religious dogma seems to interpose itself into everyday life and the 'experts' opinions on whose interpretation of God's will is more accurate or correct more often then not leads to strife.

People join the church because they are in search of peace of mind and want to be nearer to god. Are you saying that organised religion doesn't understand the word of god?

I am not nescessarily saying organized religion misunderstands God's word but perhaps promotes their own agenda under the guise of completely understanding something which may be beyond our ability to conceptualize.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

I am not nescessarily saying organized religion misunderstands God's word but perhaps promotes their own agenda under the guise of completely understanding something which may be beyond our ability to conceptualize.

You may be right, in fact you almost certainly are correct. The church does have a knack of forgetting holy scripture when it suits it. Take the IRA assassins for instance who live by the, Vow Shalt Not Kill, ethos and yet feel it's okay to murder innocents as long as they go to confession afterwards. . . Or the numerous instances of child abuse covered up by the church. . .Yes, I understand what you're saying but I still think that those who attend church and live by gods word (as they read it in the bible and have it preached to them) are best suited to understand exactly what he's saying- even if, at times, they don't understand exactly what he meant!

Here is a signature I have on other sites:

I put no stock in religion. By the word religion I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called the will of god. I have seen too much religion in the eyes of too many murderers. Holiness is in right action, and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves, and goodness. What god desires is here [points to head]

Originally posted by KSigMason
Here is a signature I have on other sites:

I put no stock in religion. By the word religion I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called the will of god. I have seen too much religion in the eyes of too many murderers. Holiness is in right action, and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves, and goodness. What god desires is here [points to head]

Thats a great signature/quote. That sums up exactly how I feel about this. And what network dude said is the same way I feel.

[edit on by jeasahtheseer]

1) According to Mattew 5:33, Jesus says to make NO OATHS ("make no oath at all"). Do you swear to your friends?

2) Language is powerful. Framing and Reframing controls politics. Do you call your friend a master?

Here are some of the definitions of a master (noun), according to dictionary.com

–noun
1. a person with the ability or power to use, control, or dispose of something: a master of six languages; to be master of one's fate.
2. an owner of a slave, animal, etc.
3. an employer of workers or servants.
4. the male head of a household.
5. a person eminently skilled in something, as an occupation, art, or science: the great masters of the Impressionist period.
6. a person whose teachings others accept or follow: a Zen master.
7. Chiefly British. a male teacher or schoolmaster.
8. a worker qualified to teach apprentices and to carry on a trade independently.
9. a title given to a bridge or chess player who has won or placed in a certain number of officially recognized tournaments.
10. a person holding this title.
11. a person who commands a merchant ship; captain.
12. a victor or conqueror.
13. a presiding officer.
14. an officer of the court to whom some or all of the issues in a case may be referred for the purpose of taking testimony and making a report to the court.
15. the Master, Jesus Christ.
16. a person who has been awarded a master's degree.
17. a boy or young man (used chiefly as a term of address).
18. Also called matrix. an original document, drawing, manuscript, etc., from which copies are made.
19. a device for controlling another device operating in a similar way. Compare slave (def. 5).
20. Recording.
a. matrix (def. 13).
b. a tape or disk from which duplicates may be made.
21. Also called copy negative. Photography. a film, usually a negative, used primarily for making large quantities of prints.
22. master of foxhounds.
23. Archaic. a work of art produced by a master.



Here are some of the definitions of a temple (noun), according to dictionary.com

–noun
1. an edifice or place dedicated to the service or worship of a deity or deities.
2. (usually initial capital letter) any of the three successive houses of worship in Jerusalem in use by the Jews in Biblical times, the first built by Solomon, the second by Zerubbabel, and the third by Herod.
3. a synagogue, usually a Reform or Conservative one.
4. an edifice erected as a place of public worship; a church, esp. a large or imposing one.
5. any place or object in which God dwells, as the body of a Christian. I Cor. 6:19.
6. (in France) a Protestant church.
7. (in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) a building devoted to administering sacred ordinances, principally that of eternal marriage.
8. a building, usually large or pretentious, devoted to some public use: a temple of music.
9. (initial capital letter) either of two establishments of the medieval Templars, one in London and the other in Paris.
10. (initial capital letter) either of two groups of buildings (Inner Temple and Middle Temple) on the site of the Templars' former establishment in London, occupied by two of the Inns of Court.
11. a building used by the Templars in the U.S.
12. a building used by any of various fraternal orders.


Here are some of the definitions of a ritual (noun), according to dictionary.com


1. an established or prescribed procedure for a religious or other rite.
2. a system or collection of religious or other rites.
3. observance of set forms in public worship.
4. a book of rites or ceremonies.
5. a book containing the offices to be used by priests in administering the sacraments and for visitation of the sick, burial of the dead, etc.
6. a prescribed or established rite, ceremony, proceeding, or service: the ritual of the dead.
7. prescribed, established, or ceremonial acts or features collectively, as in religious services.
8. any practice or pattern of behavior regularly performed in a set manner.
9. a prescribed code of behavior regulating social conduct, as that exemplified by the raising of one's hat or the shaking of hands in greeting.
10. Psychiatry. a specific act, as hand-washing, performed repetitively to a pathological degree, occurring as a common symptom of obsessive-compulsive neurosis.


Here are some of the definitions of worshipful (adjetive), according to dictionary.com

–adjective
1. feeling or showing worship.
2. (initial capital letter) British. a formal title of honor used in announcing or mentioning certain highly regarded or respected persons or groups (usually prec. by the).


Here are some of the definitions of worship, according to dictionary.com

–noun
1. reverent honor and homage paid to God or a sacred personage, or to any object regarded as sacred.
2. formal or ceremonious rendering of such honor and homage: They attended worship this morning.
3. adoring reverence or regard: excessive worship of business success.
4. the object of adoring reverence or regard.
5. (initial capital letter) British. a title of honor used in addressing or mentioning certain magistrates and others of high rank or station (usually prec. by Your, His, or Her).
–verb (used with object)
6. to render religious reverence and homage to.
7. to feel an adoring reverence or regard for (any person or thing).
–verb (used without object)
8. to render religious reverence and homage, as to a deity.
9. to attend services of divine worship.
10. to feel an adoring reverence or regard.

reply to post by infobrazil

1) According to Mattew 5:33, Jesus says to make NO OATHS ("make no oath at all"). Do you swear to your friends?

Hmm.. firstly, I suppose that would depend on what version of the Bible you read.. they all say something different and all proclaim to be "the real deal"...

And of course the biggest point being many of us Masons are not Christian.. some are Deistic.. others belong to other religions.

2) Language is powerful. Framing and Reframing controls politics. Do you call your friend a master?

Not really sure what your getting at. A young man in England is considered a Master .. "young Masters" etc.. lol .. the language used in Masonry is old' English .. Most Worshipful Master would simply indicate the person in question as "honorable"

You Bold 1-3 but leave "13. a presiding officer." un-bolded.. why is that?

Originally posted by infobrazil
1) According to Mattew 5:33, Jesus says to make NO OATHS ("make no oath at all").

Yet Christians still take the oath of marriage.

Here are some of the definitions of a master (noun), according to dictionary.com

13. a presiding officer.

Yes, this is how it is used in Freemasonry.

Here are some of the definitions of a temple (noun), according to dictionary.com

8. a building, usually large or pretentious, devoted to some public use: a temple of music.

12. a building used by any of various fraternal orders.

Yes

Here are some of the definitions of a ritual (noun), according to dictionary.com

6. a prescribed or established rite, ceremony, proceeding, or service: the ritual of the dead.

Correct

Here are some of the definitions of worshipful (adjetive), according to dictionary.com

2. (initial capital letter) British. a formal title of honor used in announcing or mentioning certain highly regarded or respected persons or groups (usually prec. by the).

YEs, exactly the way it is used in Freemasonry!

Here are some of the definitions of worship, according to dictionary.com

5. (initial capital letter) British. a title of honor used in addressing or mentioning certain magistrates and others of high rank or station (usually prec. by Your, His, or Her).

Thanks for clearing all these definitions up. It saves us from having to explain them all to the anti-masons.

Thanks for claryfing that for us.

Why you call yourself a Goat Rider? Is this an inside joke?

Are there any atheist lodges?

Why you guys mention that you are masons? Should'nt you be secretive and not 'brag' about it?

[edit on 15-8-2009 by infobrazil]

reply to post by infobrazil


Probably because he rides goats.

No atheist can be a Mason.

Masonry is not a secret organization. Though if you cross the pond to Europe I hear they are much more secretive.

Truth is : Some christians will call anything that they got no-idea or the 'Heeby-geebies' over Evil and thus; Satanic.
Galileo was jailed for saying that the Earth wasn't the center of the universe; and ex-communicated.
This style of reasoning and intolerence is carried into the modern day by some backward Christians.