Freemasonry is unChristian

“Evangelical” (the member using that name) like most of the fundamentalist, neither understands masonry, the history of the church, the history of the scripture and who was being addressed and why, and finds comfort in this very new and "modern" theology that turns it's back on knowledge to defend his ignorance.

Fundamentalism is a modern theology because it could not have ever existed or have been taken seriously by early followers of Christ, the Early Church, or any group of Christians until long after the printing press. It fails, because it misunderstands scripture, and how it came to be. Truth be told most modern historians of all kinds have the same problem in misunderstanding history. We live in a world where we can read any book and know what the original author said, we can buy copies and share them and know we all have the same words. This WAS NEVER THE CASE AT ANY POINT IN HISTORY until AFTER the printing press. Instead men listened to teachers, and passed on their teachings by mouth. They would write them down, and rescribed them. Followers would ever search for more works, and scribe down new copies. All Christian scholars knew that every copy had variations, and to understand them better they read every copy they could find, but they always saw the errors of mankind in the variations. So they understood that scripture, and inspired word was just that..."inspired" however it was not an autograph, it was not perfect, and every copy showed the flaws of mankind...and so they must be read on the whole, they must focus on the central messages passed down, and they must pray to the source...GOD for their own inspiration and theology........IF Fundamentalists models were used in the early church then Every Christian for the first few hundred years was bound for hell and damnation for you see they had NO bible. they had no common single Gospel that had no variation from the other copies of the same Gospels.....the history of the bible is something many are ignorant of, the textual criticisms conducted by Christians (not their detractors) are also something many are ignorant of......however they defend their ignorance by promoting the worship of mankind’s efforts and have paganized the very concept of the WORD and the LOGOS. JESUS is the WORD....the scripture is the inspired writings of men about him. The men were flawed, he is NOT. Jesus was without error, however history and even the new testement states quite clearly that even among his own disciples and followers there were disagreements, and errors from the beginning.

Defining scripture as without error, and as THE WORD. Is a very simplistic theology, and easy for people to grasp. But it has NEVER EVER been the understanding of Christians until the modern era.......by saying it is without error they incorporate everything these men wrote both their inspired writings and their errors as the WORD.........I.e. they are adding to God's word, Jesus teachings, man's laws...this was precisely what the gospels tell us was Jesus beef with the Pharisee....but to understand his problem with the Pharisee they also have to understand Jewish religion during his time, and that also would take too much thinking so they do not bother......

Now to say the Bible has errors does not detract from it's value. We have more fragments of the books in the Bible then any book in western civilization. So we have a much better idea about what Jesus taught then we do any of the Greek philosophers. So it is correct to say we have a very good idea what was taught, but there also is lots of room for theological interpretation...

Consider one of the most widely agreed upon teachings attribute to Jesus in likely the oldest of the gospels Matthew....

"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thorn bushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them."

Christ taught a message of love for one another. He taught of kindness, he taught forgiveness. Tell me do we hear HATE or do we hear LOVE, when the fundamentalists thump and boast, and degrade any fellow Christian who does not share their theological view? Do they show ELITISM? Or Pious meekness? Finally, what does the scripture say about Jesus and the pursuit of knowledge? We’re told even he sought it out and studied in the temple, yet we’re to believe that we who are not messiahs need not seek what even he did? Consider their rotten fruit….and how alien it is to the early church. See the "Didache" to see how actual early followers of Christ and his apostles lived.

I would also add....

"Works" are our fruit.....paraphrasing what is so clearly stated in James.....by my works you will see my faith....and faith without works is dead........theology without love and forgiveness at it's center is NOT the message of Jesus, it is NOT the message of Life.......

Consider the "fruits" of masonry:

constitutional governments elected by the people, freedom of worship, the reformation, the end of a church more concerned with greed and secular power then in the souls and virtue of men....even the Catholic Church that denounces us has been made far BETTER by masonry in forcing it to renounce it's secular control and focus on it's intended purpose...., the enlightenment, the royal society, and invisable college which founded all of modern science, and schools of learning, and consider all the discoveries of mankind since based on observing God's GREATEST work...."Life".....

If your idea of God is one that would keep you from understanding....all i can say is I pity your theological understanding....Christ freed his followers from dogmatics who victimized the people, and used dogma and rigid laws to keep them from the word of God. He told them to live simply, to be charitable, to teach by example and how they lived, not by dogma that was the way of the Pharisee.......not only is Masonry very much in alignment with Christian values, (as it should be since all it's rituals are based on wisdom found in the scriptures) but EVERY single Christian denomination has many ministers among it's numbers...for Every Baptist minister pounding out ignorant slander, there's five more Baptist ministers who are Freemasons, and usually have better educational backgrounds in theology.... ..for most modern denominations first started within the safety of masonry protecting it's founders equally and without prejudice, when the corrupt church of the dark ages would have burned them for daring to question their corrupted theology........masonry makes no claims on any of them as to which you should choose, it only recommends you follow your faith truly and without a double heart, and with virtue....masonry is not a faith, it is a system for society....in this it is similar to the didache, it's only concern is for how we treat each other in society in THIS LIFE....theology is understood to be your choice, and you are free to worship at any Chruch, Temple, Mosque or what have you as your are led.....masonry is about how we live in THIS world, your system for salvation is not there but rather is between you and God, and the religion of your choosing.

What Christian would prefer to have their choices limited? To be once again told how they must worship, study and believe? To once again risk being burned by demogogues rather then peacefully follow their convictions.....the modern fundementalist seems to pine for the worst era of Christian History when the Church became a tyrant and represented anything but Jesus's message.

Again look at the fruit or rather the poison of masonry's detractors...... if they are Freemasonry's enemies........perhaps masonry is not so bad after all.

Freemasons enemies:

Fundementalists
Inquisitors
Hitler and his Nazi party
Communism
all Facist Governments
Despot based governments
basically ANYONE who would enslave your mind.....these are our enemies, these are the peopel who attack us and persecute masons......how much more clear can it be as to what we stand for....TRUTH!!!!!

Magna est Veritas, et praevalabit

reply to post by KingPanzergrenadier


I cant help but laugh at the fact that you actually believe that. But, as i said, everyone is entitled to their own beliefs. Now, talking about killing a mason just because he's a member of the organization is absurd. More over, its UnChristian of you. Treat your fellow man as you would appreciate being treated. I personally am not part of an internal NWO trying to take over the world...nor do i know of anyone involved in it.

UnChristian!?!
Howso?!? These are servants of God with a plan... They execute well enough to the ruin of none.

Also: If poo is stuff that comes out of our butts... And pee is stuff that comes out of our penises...
What then is "PEEPOO"!?!?!?!?!?!?!

reply to post by KingPanzergrenadier


One cannot be both a patriot and an anti-Mason....because....well....the first patriots were Masons.

reply to post by ForkandSpoon


I read your response this morning and I would like to thank you for your inspired words. Your rhetoric is a shining example of how we should act. You are an upright man and Mason. I wish I could do more than star your post, as it should be read by everyone.

reply to post by Pinocchio


I still don't understand your tirade of nonsensical posts within this forum.... Perhaps a deep profound meaning is buried inside them somewhere, im still yet to find it.

reply to post by KSigMason
You don't know what your`re talking about.

reply to post by juggernaut0907 Freemasonry is satanic! Freemasons teach in the First Degree that all men worship the same god. The Bible teaches Jesus is God. In the Second Degree Masonry teaches all men go to heaven. The Bible teaches Jesus is the only way to heaven, through faith in him and not by works. In the Third Degree masonry reiterates the teachings of the first two degrees. And in all three degrees masonry teaches that man can reach spiritual, intellectual, and socially enlightenment, while doctrinal Christianity teaches the enlightenment is only attainable through faith in Jesus Christ. As a Christian do you believe all men go to heaven? If you do, what are you doing in the masonic lodge, that teaches all good men climb Jacob's ladder into heaven after death? The religions of freemasonry and Biblical Christianity and indeed incompatible. Jesus said "your either with me or against me". You can not serve two masters.

I wish I could do more than star your post, as it should be read by everyone.

You just did, thank you brother...your encouragement made my day.

reply to post by ForkandSpoonAre you talking to me?

Well for me Christianity is un-Christ like so I see little difference with masonry and just another control mechanism of divide and conquer while so called Christians bicker among themselves about whose right and condemn everyone else who does not believe as they do. Pull the beam out of your own eyes first... Matthew 7:5

reply to post by hawkiye
Christianity un-Christ like? Are you an idiot! Apostle Paul said believers can judge unrighteousness. Christians must stand up against all evil and masonry is evil.

Originally posted by KingPanzergrenadier
reply to post by hawkiye

 

Christianity un-Christ like? Are you an idiot! Apostle Paul said believers can judge unrighteousness. Christians must stand up against all evil and masonry is evil.

edit on 6-4-2012 by KingPanzergrenadier because: (no reason given)

the irony is christianity is a form of evil.

Originally posted by KingPanzergrenadier
reply to post by hawkiye

 

Christianity un-Christ like? Are you an idiot! Apostle Paul said believers can judge unrighteousness. Christians must stand up against all evil and masonry is evil.

I won't report your little tirade to the mods even though I'm pretty sure it contravenes ATS TC.

In any case, it seems pretty clear that you're here for a fight and not a discussion. If you'd like to discuss in respectful terms, I'm open. If on the other hand you want to keep calling a moral institution evil that encourages its members of whatever faith to be good men, serviceable in their faith, serviceable to society in general and charitable to all men then I'm not sure you're actually open to discuss as it sounds like your mind's made up for you already

Pity

Fitz

reply to post by yourmaker

How dare you call Christianity a form of evil! You Masons are occultists and have good confused with evil. I try not to hate you, just pray for you.

Originally posted by Evangelical
I used to be a freemason and I had given the first degree lecture by memory, verbatim. After becoming Christian I decided to do the lecture again, I needed to relearn it and that is when Jesus unmade me as a Mason. Masonry is not compatible with Christianity because it teaches a false Gospel.

First it teaches you go to heaven because of yourown endeavours in a rectitude of conduct and purity of life. It teaches you are saved by a virtuous education. All this is false. The Gospel is clear, through Jesus Christ we are saved not through works.

It then replaces Jesus Christ with yourself. You are resurrected under the guise of Hiram Abiff. You are places in the north east corner because the cornerstone is first placed there? Or is it?

Jesus Christ is the corner stone, evidenced in Ephesians. The north east, the north being the right hand of God.

It may be harmless but if you want to go through the motions of the Christian life, then do it ad a Christian not as a Freemason.

For these reasons I don't think Christians should be Masons.

I was a mason for seven years and being called from it was a powerful and moving and humbling display of the power of Jesus Christ.

But christianity is a still only a belief and that you believe in it now is fine.
You must know though that Jesus Christ was not a christian, he was a follower of a far more ancient religious belief.
It was Paul and then some roman emperor in 324AD or thereabouts that made christianity a religion, not Jesus.
Of course Christians cannot be Masons, they believe (like Jesus did) in a much older religious belief, based on the sun god and originating from ancient Egypt.

Originally posted by KingPanzergrenadier
reply to post by yourmaker

 

How dare you call Christianity a form of evil! You Masons are occultists and have good confused with evil. I try not to hate you, just pray for you.

You have no idea whether yourmaker is a Mason or not and you certainly have no clue about the actuality of Freemasonry. As for trying not to hate Masons, you don't seem to be trying very hard. Have your forgotten this post of yours?

Originally posted by KingPanzergrenadier
Freemasonry is satanic period!! Freemasonry is at the heart of the NWO, when shtf masons will become targets of any patriot with a gun!. As a Christian and a patriot I will fight them till the end. Freemasons are nothing but Nwo scum, who hate the One true God and liberty.

Or are you just praying for a full magazine when you finally come upon one of those evil, occultist, NWO Freemasons? You do a disservice to Christianity by claiming to be an adherent. The Prince of Peace would have no truck with the violence-inciting you seem to prefer.

Fitz

Freemasonry is a criminal organization! Read what Alex Jones, Jeff Rense, and Texe Marrs have to say about Masonry. Dr. Jon Ankerberg did a wonderful Documentary on Masonry. Let God open your eyes don't reject the truth.

Originally posted by KingPanzergrenadier
Freemasonry is a criminal organization! Read what Alex Jones, Jeff Rense, and Texe Marrs have to say about Masonry. Dr. Jon Ankerberg did a wonderful Documentary on Masonry. Let God open your eyes don't reject the truth.

Ah! The source of your vitriol betrays itself. I'm sorry you've bound yourself to sources of such low esteem as you have. It would seem you've drunk deeply from the pool of woo and quite honestly I suspect you have no desire to discuss.

Fitz