Freemasonry is unChristian

Originally posted by DRAZIW

Nah..there are punishments for violating oaths etc...so there is coercion inherent in masonry.

Yes, a guilty conscience and a couple of disapproving comments/glares from the brethren.

Although the ritual suggests that one should be expelled if he revealed any Masonic secrets, personally I don't even think it would go that far in most constitutions...

reply to post by DRAZIW

Well there you go misconstruing everything. Our tenets such as Brotherly Love have nothing to do with our oaths.

The Lodge is not a place for conversion. Politics and religion are not to be discussed.

reply to post by DRAZIW

If a Brother broke his oath he'd only be expelled. No harm would befall him. Nor is coercion inherent.
reply to post by DRAZIW

Well, there is more than one story to the Morgan Affair. Plus that's one person over how long of an existence? Nor can you say how he died, but only that he disappeared.

This is not some "ah ha!" moment. We never denied this event nor are you the first to bring it up. You are nothing more than a drone recycling the same old crap.

Originally posted by KSigMason
This is not some "ah ha!" moment. We never denied this event nor are you the first to bring it up. You are nothing more than a drone recycling the same old crap.

I'm sorry I'm not introducing "new" stuff, but I'm not inventing anything here. I say what has been said, just to remind, and make the point.

“…Masonry is identical with the Ancient Mysteries,” (Albert Pike, “Morals and Dogma”, p. 624, Teaching of the 28th Degree)

reply to post by Johnthewitness

And? What is your point to this quote?

Originally posted by Johnthewitness
“…Masonry is identical with the Ancient Mysteries,” (Albert Pike, “Morals and Dogma”, p. 624, Teaching of the 28th Degree)

Though Masonry is identical with the ancient Mysteries, it is so only in this qualified sense: that it presents but an imperfect image of their brilliancy, the ruins only of their grandeur, and a system that has experienced progressive alterations, the fruits of social events, political circumstances, and the ambitious imbecility of its improvers. After leaving Egypt, the Mysteries were modified by the habits of the different nations among whom they were introduced, and especially by the religious systems of the countries into which they were transplanted. To maintain the established government, laws, and religion, was the obligation of the Initiate everywhere; and everywhere they were the heritage of the priests, who were nowhere willing to make the common people co-proprietors with themselves of philosophical truth.

Masonry is not the Coliseum in ruins. It is rather a Roman palace of the middle ages, disfigured by modern architectural improvements, yet built on a Cyclopæan foundation laid by the Etruscans, and with many a stone of the superstructure taken from dwellings and temples of the age of Hadrian and Antoninus.

Christianity taught the doctrine of FRATERNITY; but repudiated that of political EQUALITY, by continually inculcating obedience to Cæsar, and to those lawfully in authority. Masonry was the first apostle of EQUALITY. In the Monastery there is fraternity and equality, but no liberty. Masonry added that also, and claimed for man the three-fold heritage, LIBERTY, EQUALITY, and FRATERNITY.

It was but a development of the original purpose of the Mysteries, which was to teach men to know and practice their duties to themselves and their fellows, the great practical end of all philosophy and all knowledge.

Truths are the springs from which duties flow; and it is but a few hundred years since a new Truth began to be distinctly seen; that MAN IS SUPREME OVER INSTITUTIONS, AND NOT THEY OVER HIM. Man has natural empire over all institutions. They are for him, according to his development; not he for them. This seems to us a very simple statement, one to which all men, everywhere, ought to assent. But once it was a great new Truth,—not revealed until governments had been in existence for at least five thousand years. Once revealed, it imposed new duties on men. Man owed it to himself to be free. He owed it to his country to seek to give her freedom, or maintain her in that possession. It made Tyranny and Usurpation the enemies of the Human Race. It created a general outlawry of Despots and Despotisms, temporal and spiritual. The sphere of Duty was immensely enlarged. Patriotism had, henceforth, a new and wider meaning. Free Government, Free Thought, Free Conscience, Free Speech! All these came to be inalienable rights, which those who had parted with them or been robbed of them, or whose ancestors had lost them, had the right summarily to retake. Unfortunately, as Truths always become perverted into falsehoods, and are falsehoods when misapplied, this Truth became the Gospel of Anarchy, soon after it was first preached.

Masonry early comprehended this Truth, and recognized its own enlarged duties. Its symbols then came to have a wider meaning; but it also assumed the mask of Stone-masonry, and borrowed its working-tools, and so was supplied with new and apt symbols. It aided in bringing about the French Revolution, disappeared with the Girondists, was born again with the restoration of order, and sustained Napoleon, because, though Emperor, he acknowledged the right of the people to select its rulers, and was at the head of a nation refusing to receive back its old kings. He pleaded, with sabre, musket, and cannon, the great cause of the People against Royalty, the right of the French people even to make a Corsican General their Emperor, if it pleased them.

Masonry felt that this Truth had the Omnipotence of God on its side; and that neither Pope nor Potentate could overcome it. It was a truth dropped into the world's wide treasury, and forming a part of the heritage which each generation receives, enlarges, and holds in trust, and of necessity bequeaths to mankind; the personal estate of man, entailed of nature to the end of time. And Masonry early recognized it as true, that to set forth and develop a truth, or any human excellence of gift or growth, is to make greater the spiritual glory of the race; that whosoever aids the march of a Truth, and makes the thought a thing, writes in the same line with MOSES, and with Him who died upon the cross, and has an intellectual sympathy with the Deity Himself.

continued

The best gift we can bestow on man is manhood. It is that which Masonry is ordained of God to bestow on its votaries: not sectarianism and religious dogma; not a rudimental morality, that may be found in the writings of Confucius, Zoroaster, Seneca, and the Rabbis, in the Proverbs and Ecclesiastes; not a little and cheap common-school knowledge; but manhood and science and philosophy.

Not that Philosophy or Science is in opposition to Religion. For Philosophy is but that knowledge of God and the Soul, which is derived from observation of the manifested action of God and the Soul, and from a wise analogy. It is the intellectual guide which the religious sentiment needs. The true religious philosophy of an imperfect being, is not a system of creed, but, as SOCRATES thought, an infinite search or approximation. Philosophy is that intellectual and moral progress, which the religious sentiment inspires and ennobles.

As to Science, it could not walk alone, while religion was stationary. It consists of those matured inferences from experience which all other experience confirms. It realizes and unites all that was truly valuable in both the old schemes of mediation,—one heroic, or the system of action and effort; and the mystical theory of spiritual, contemplative communion. "Listen to me," says GALEN, "as to the voice of the Eleusinian Hierophant, and believe that the study of Nature is a mystery no less important than theirs, nor less adapted to display the wisdom and power of the Great Creator. Their lessons and demonstrations were obscure, but ours are clear and unmistakable."

We deem that to be the best knowledge we can obtain of the Soul of another man, which is furnished by his actions and his life-long conduct. Evidence to the contrary, supplied by what another man informs us that this Soul has said to his, would weigh little against the former. The first Scriptures for the human race were written by God on the Earth and Heavens. The reading of these Scriptures is Science. Familiarity with the grass and trees, the insects and the infusoria, teaches us deeper lessons of love and faith than we can glean from the writings of FE_NE_LON and AUGUSTINE. The great Bible of God is ever open before mankind.

Knowledge is convertible into power, and axioms into rules of utility and duty. But knowledge itself is not Power. Wisdom is Power; and her Prime Minister is JUSTICE, which is the perfected law of TRUTH. The purpose, therefore, of Education and Science is to make a man wise. If knowledge does not make him so, it is wasted, like water poured on the sands. To know the formulas of Masonry, is of as little value, by itself, as to know so many words and sentences in some barbarous African or Australasian dialect. To know even the meaning of the symbols, is but little, unless that adds to our wisdom, and also to our charity, which is to justice like one hemisphere of the brain to the other.

Do not lose sight, then, of the true object of your studies in Masonry. It is to add to your estate of wisdom, and not merely to your knowledge. A man may spend a lifetime in studying a single specialty of knowledge,—botany, conchology, or entomology, for instance,—in committing to memory names derived from the Greek, and classifying and reclassifying; and yet be no wiser than when he began. It is the great truths as to all that most concerns a man, as to his rights, interests, and duties, that Masonry seeks to teach her Initiates.

The wiser a man becomes, the less will he be inclined to submit tamely to the imposition of fetters or a yoke, on his conscience or his person. For, by increase of wisdom he not only better knows his rights, but the more highly values them, and is more conscious of his worth and dignity. His pride then urges him to assert his independence. He becomes better able to assert it also; and better able to assist others or his country, when they or she stake all, even existence, upon the same assertion. But mere knowledge makes no one independent, nor fits him to be free. It often only makes him a more useful slave. Liberty is a curse to the ignorant and brutal.

Morals & Dogma, Chapter II, pp. 24–27

And

Though Masonry is identical with the Ancient Mysteries, it is so in this qualified sense; that it presents but an imperfect image of their brilliancy; the ruins only of their grandeur, and a system that has experienced progressive alterations, the fruits of social events and political circumstances. Upon leaving Egypt, the Mysteries were modified by the habits of the different nations among whom they were introduced. Though originally more moral and political than religious, they soon became the heritage, as it were, of the priests, and essentially religious, though in reality limiting the sacerdotal power, by teaching the intelligent laity the folly and absurdity of the creeds of the populace. They were therefore necessarily changed by the religious systems of the countries into which they were transplanted. In Greece, they were the Mysteries of Ceres; in Rome, of Bona Dea, the Good Goddess; in Gaul, the School of Mars; in Sicily, the Academy of the Sciences; among the Hebrews, they partook of the rites and ceremonies of a religion which placed all the powers of government, and all the knowledge, in the hands of the Priests and Levites. The pagodas of India, the retreats of the Magi of Persia and Chaldea, and the pyramids of Egypt, were no longer the sources at which men drank in knowledge. Each people, at all informed, had its Mysteries. After a time the Temples of Greece and the School of Pythagoras lost their reputation, and Freemasonry took their place.

Masonry, when properly expounded, is at once the interpretation of the great book of nature, the recital of physical and astronomical phenomena, the purest philosophy, and the place of deposit, where, as in a Treasury, are kept in safety all the great truths of the primitive revelation, that form the basis of all religions. In the modern Degrees three things are to be recognized: The image of primeval times, the tableau of the efficient causes of the Universe, and the book in which are written the morality of all peoples, and the code by which they must govern themselves if they would be prosperous.

The Kabalistic doctrine was long the religion of the Sage and the Savant; because, like Freemasonry, it incessantly tends toward spiritual perfection, and the fusion of the creeds and Nationalities of Mankind. In the eyes of the Kabalist, all men are his brothers; and their relative ignorance is, to him, but a reason for instructing them. There were illustrious Kabalists among the Egyptians and Greeks, whose doctrines the Orthodox Church has accepted; and among the Arabs were many, whose wisdom was not slighted by the Mediæval Church.

The Sages proudly wore the name of Kabalists. The Kabalah embodied a noble philosophy, pure, not mysterious, but symbolic. It taught the doctrine of the Unity of God, the art of knowing and explaining the essence and operations of the Supreme Being, of spiritual powers and natural forces, and of determining their action by symbolic figures; by the arrangement of the alphabet, the combinations of numbers, the inversion of letters in writing and the concealed meanings which they claimed to discover therein. The Kabalah is the key of the occult sciences; and the Gnostics were born of the Kabalists.

The science of numbers represented not only arithmetical qualities, but also all grandeur, all proportion. By it we necessarily arrive at the discovery of the Principle or First Cause of things, called at the present day THE ABSOLUTE.

Or UNITY,—that loftiest term to which all philosophy directs itself; that imperious necessity of the human mind, that pivot round which it is compelled to group the aggregate of its ideas: Unity, this source, this centre of all systematic order, this principle of existence, this central point, unknown in its essence, but manifest in its effects; Unity, that sublime centre to which the chain of causes necessarily ascends, was the august Idea toward which all the ideas of Pythagoras converged. He refused the title of Sage, which means one who knows. He invented, and applied to himself that of Philosopher, signifying one who is fond of or studies things secret and occult. The astronomy which he mysteriously taught, was astrology: his science of numbers was based on Kabalistical principles.

The Ancients, and Pythagoras himself, whose real principles have not been always understood, never meant to ascribe to numbers, that is to say, to abstract signs, any special virtue. But the Sages of Antiquity concurred in recognizing a ONE FIRST CAUSE (material or spiritual) of the existence of the Universe. Thence, UNITY became the symbol of the Supreme Deity. It was made to express, to represent God; but without attributing to the mere, number ONE any divine or supernatural virtue.

Morals & Dogma, Ch. XXIX, pp. 624–626

My simple contribution to this thread is to simply challenge any anti-Mason here to please tell me what I have done as a Freemason that has, in any way, caused me to stumble in my walk with Jesus Christ.

Originally posted by jbarr
My simple contribution to this thread is to simply challenge any anti-Mason here to please tell me what I have done as a Freemason that has, in any way, caused me to stumble in my walk with Jesus Christ.

Hear hear. I'd love to hear that reply as well.

Originally posted by Evangelical
First it teaches you go to heaven because of yourown endeavours in a rectitude of conduct and purity of life. It teaches you are saved by a virtuous education. All this is false. The Gospel is clear, through Jesus Christ we are saved not through works.

This made me laugh a little.
So if you only believe in Christ you are saved, no need to do good things, help other that need help?
As far as I know my religion, we must believe and accept (because someone can believe in Jesus but they don't accept him) Jesus and do moral things to earn our place in heaven not just to believe in Jesus...

reply to post by Anttoni

It does make you laugh at the fundamentalists who seem to forget the Gospel of James. In the 2nd Chapter we see:

"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone."

"Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works."

"Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."

"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

reply to post by KSigMason


Or Revelations 20:12

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

reply to post by Evangelical


Freemasonic rituals are actually built around the Bible. I know many who had no interest in the Bible at all but only started reading it after becoming Freemasons. If Freemasonry is anti-Christian then it should quit turning people on to reading the Bible, dont you think?

Well, I continue to wait for the anti-Masons to tell me what I have done as a Freemason that has, in any way, caused me to stumble in my walk with Jesus Christ.

I figured this would be a no-brainer since Freemasonry is so un-Christian.

Originally posted by Evangelical
I used to be a freemason and I had given the first degree lecture by memory, verbatim. After becoming Christian I decided to do the lecture again, I needed to relearn it and that is when Jesus unmade me as a Mason. Masonry is not compatible with Christianity because it teaches a false Gospel.

So you were a Mason huh?

Why didn't you explain the three degrees of Freemasonry in your post?

That would be helpful for people to understand how it is different than Christianity.

Let me help.

The first degree teaches about subduing passions, a necessary skill if you wish to interact with people of different beliefs. I can see how this would be objectionable to some Christians.

The second degree teaches about the need to educate yourself in the Seven liberal arts and sciences. You know, stuff like Logic, Grammar, Rhetoric, Mathematics, Geometry, Music and Astronomy. This way you can actually READ the Bible, FORM an opinion of your own, and CONVEY that opinion to others. I can see again why this would be considered dangerous to many Christians.

The third degree teaches the sanctity of life, the shortness of time, and the inevitability of death. This is taught that the initiate might learn how precious life is and better focus his mind on the short time he has here.

Yep, these teachings may be unChristian to some, but those are not Christians I would want around me anyway.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM


If I were a mod, I'd give you applause for that post. Nicely put!

reply to post by Evangelical


I believe everyone has the right to trust in any faith they choose, and join any organization that fits their needs. I am a mason and a christian man, yet i never experienced masonry as a religion. Why? Because it's not. Common misconception but freemasonry is not a religion. It do not promise salvation nor does it have a definitive "supreme being". Shoot, we dont even speak of religion in Lodge. But i do know of the existence of "Clandestine" and "Irregular" Lodges. They may tweak the craft to their own liking.

Freemasonry is satanic period!! Freemasonry is at the heart of the NWO, when shtf masons will become targets of any patriot with a gun!. As a Christian and a patriot I will fight them till the end. Freemasons are nothing but Nwo scum, who hate the One true God and liberty.

reply to post by KingPanzergrenadier

Man, who pissed in your Cheerios. You need to settle down and take a breath of fresh air.

We are not Satanic in any way. We are also not a part of the NWO; we don't seek domination or conquest over the world nor to usurp the power of the People. To call for violence over unfounded paranoia is despicable and repugnant.

I am also a Christian and consider myself a Patriot so fight all you want, but your fascist ideals shouldn't be tolerated or accepted as they go against basic human/civil rights.

We don't hate God nor liberty. In fact, the lessons imparted throughout Masonry go against your opinion and misled beliefs.