Freemasonry is unChristian

reply to post by infobrazil


the amazing lack of humor in some posters is absolutely mind boggling. have you people ever heard of a joke?

The term profane when applied to masonry is number 4 on your list. it has different meaning in different contexts. because it sounds derogatory, we try not to use it. In the case of my post, it was meant as humor. HUMOR. I am aware it is a completely foreign concept to you and others, but I assure you that some who are intelligent enough to understand it, enjoy it quite well. This is the reason some people here have such a hard time in this forum. As. Sergeant Hulka says, "lighten up Frances"

Originally posted by network dude


The term profane when applied to masonry is number 4 on your list.

True. The term "profane" is derived from the Latin "profanum", literally meaning "outside the temple". It simply refers to one who has not been initiated, and therefore carries no negative connotations, at least not in the way it's used in Freemasonry.

To all the rest of the Brethren on ATS. It's not worth the time to fight/argue with someone who will not listen. We can say all we want but they will still see something wrong with us. I have learned to just ignore the blatant and outrageous claims made by anti-masons. They have been saying the same things since the creation of our fraternity and will continue to do so.

It's like arguing with a shoe...

We present facts and knowledge that it is well know to masons and non-masons (i.e Masonry is not a religion, we don't worship Satan etc...), but our word is not valid and/or sound and never will be. I am over it

Originally posted by bushidomason
To all the rest of the Brethren on ATS. It's not worth the time to fight/argue with someone who will not listen. We can say all we want but they will still see something wrong with us. I have learned to just ignore the blatant and outrageous claims made by anti-masons. They have been saying the same things since the creation of our fraternity and will continue to do so.

It's like arguing with a shoe...

We present facts and knowledge that it is well know to masons and non-masons (i.e Masonry is not a religion, we don't worship Satan etc...), but our word is not valid and/or sound and never will be. I am over it

Ah, but it could be a double bluff!!? If the brotherhood were guilty of some of what you are accussed of then there's no way you would freely own up to it is there? I have huge problems and reservations about this fraternity but I freely admit that the problem doesn't lie with it's members. . . It's what goes on behind the scenes that I worry about, things that your ordinary mason may not be aware of. Agreed, 99% of what you're accussed of is nonsense but I still can't help but feel that a society who revels in it's secrets may just be keeping dark secrets from it's own members. . .

reply to post by Shadow18433

How did profanes show that Freemasonry is a religion? How did you connect that dot?

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by Shadow18433

 

How did profanes show that Freemasonry is a religion? How did you connect that dot?

I think a mason earlier said that he looked on masonry as his religion. What I would like to know is why freemasons get so angry when us non masons enquire about this? Does it really matter whether freemasonry is considered a religion or not?

reply to post by Evangelical


Thanks for pointing out the Freemasonry is Un -christian.
Now you know why I think freemasonry is of more worth.

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
I freely admit that the problem doesn't lie with it's members. . . It's what goes on behind the scenes that I worry about, things that your ordinary mason may not be aware of.

If a few bad Masons were doing things behind the scenes that no other Masons knew about, then it wouldn't be Freemasonry. It would be something else.

[edit on 20/8/2009 by Saurus]

reply to post by Mintwithahole.


It does matter, atleast to me. Because it gives people reason to believe more conspiracies against us like that we worship satan or something. It gives reason for people to call us a cult. And whoever said he takes it as his religion, he probably means he has a god like jesus or something,and just applies to teachings of masonry to his spirituality. I follow no religion really either, cept buddhism a lil, and I do beleive in a god. But I say I apply some of the masonry teachings to my views on spirituality, nothing wrong with that, and doesnt make it a religion.

And as far as this behind the scenes stuff, what is it? People always say this but never explain what they mean. If you mean the 33rd degree, I know 2 ofem, one is a automachanic and the other owns a small business, nice guys, hardy the type thatwould be sitting in secret 33rds take over the world meetings.

There are NO members kept in the dark, the degrees are used to slowly reveal stuff to the mason, but noone is completely in the dark once theyve gone through. Dude if you came to a mason meeting youd see how goofy conspiraciies are. We sit around and talk, discuss lodge business, then just talk about our wives and children amongst eachother, theres also a lot of sports talk . I've been to about 15 lodges and they all do this the same.

And this is unrelated but I was made master mason 3rd degree a few days, I'm so exciited and happy!

[edit on 20-8-2009 by jeasahtheseer]

[edit on 20-8-2009 by jeasahtheseer]

[edit on 20-8-2009 by jeasahtheseer]

reply to post by Saurus


Nice post, bro. Thats what I was trying to say in my post.

[edit on 20-8-2009 by jeasahtheseer]

Originally posted by Saurus

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
I freely admit that the problem doesn't lie with it's members. . . It's what goes on behind the scenes that I worry about, things that your ordinary mason may not be aware of.

If a few bad Masons were doing things behind the scenes that no other Masons knew about, then it wouldn't be Freemasonry. It would be something else.

[edit on 20/8/2009 by Saurus]

I'm sorry but I don't buy that argument. If a freemason was up to something behind the scenes, on behalf of the masons, let's say he was passing on influential members details to the Bilderbergs or the Illuminatti (some would say they are the same thing!) then the brotherhood cannot simply turn a blind eye to it and say, "It was something else!!" That's ridiculous. Guilt is guilt whether your a profane or a mason. . . Or have I got that wrong. . ?

reply to post by Mintwithahole.


What he was saying is that if an individual was doing something nefarious behind the scenes, it would not be "Freemasons" doing it, it would be that individual doing something else!

If a college professor rapes a student, it isn't UofX raping students, it is that guy! If a college professor builds a bomb while researching something else, it isn't UofX building bombs, it is that professor. Now if said professor gets a grant to build bombs from UofX, then it is the University that should be named. In FreeMasonry, we are not endorsing any type of nefarious behaviour, so if something is going on, it is not the organization, it is the individuals, and if we became aware, we would put a stop to it, just like the University would stop bomb making in their chem lab!

Back to the un-Christian comments again. I think the term "Un" Christian is very appropriate. We are also "Un" every other religion. We are not "anti" religion, we like and endorse all single deity religions, but by definition, if something is un-cola, it means it is not a cola. So we are un-religionX, as we are not religionX.

reply to post by getreadyalready

Rubbish. . . So using your mindset the individual Nazi's who where put on trial at the Hague weren't war criminals they were just misguided psycho's. . .The fact that they were Nazi's acting for the Reich doesn't come into it. The fact is if you do something illegal on behalf of a group then the group is just as guilty as their member who carried out the crime. If you hire an assassin to kill your wife then you are just as guilty as the loon who carries out the murder.
Saying that they are a good honest mason right up to the split second they broke the law is nonsense.

reply to post by Mintwithahole.


Many Nazi's knew about it and approved of what was happening.

Freemasons don't know of any bad deeds going on in Freemasonry and don't approve.

[edit on 20/8/2009 by Saurus]

Originally posted by Saurus
reply to post by Mintwithahole.

 

Many Nazi's knew about it and approved of what was happening.

Freemasons don't know of any bad deeds going on in Freemasonry and don't approve.

[edit on 20/8/2009 by Saurus]

But you're not meant to know! That's where the conspiracy comes into the equation. . . I don't doubt for a minute that the good masons I've met on here would be outraged if they found out that their beloved fraternity was up to no good behind the scenes, but the fact is most of you refuse to accept that it might be taking place! That kind of faith is disturbing. . .

reply to post by Mintwithahole.


Rubbish back at ya, lol! If the group endorses or orders the action, then the group is guilty, but if a lone person, or even sub-group of the people do something psychotic without the endorsement or even knowledge of the larger group, then the larger group is not the responsible party?

Was Jodie Foster guilty in Ronald Reagan's assassination attempt? The gunman thought he was acting on her behalf.

Are hospitals to blame when a nurse goes wacko and starts euthanizing patients? Are all Muslims guilty of the terrorist crimes of the extremists? Are all Irish guilty of the terrorist crimes of the IRA? Are all Americans guilty for the crimes at Abu Ghraib (sp?)?

You get the point, Masonry is not actively seeking to take over the world, influence politics, or enslave anybody. We may have a small amount of crazies, but because of our teachings and our culling process, I bet there are more crazies per capita in hospitals, governments, universities, and corporations than in Masonry!

reply to post by getreadyalready

But like I've said before, who knows what the fraternity is up too behind closed doors? The normal members of the brotherhood concern themselves with raising money for charities, helping their local neighbourhood and doing good deeds while those at the very top may be planning allsorts of nefarious acts. What better place to hide your evil acts than behind a curtain of good wishes, good deeds and charitable actions?
And if this was ever proven then I don't doubt for a second that the masons here on the hallowed pages of ATS would be just as outraged, if not more so because it is their (your) fraternity, than us profanes.
I constantly find it amazing how people who belong to a society with secrets cannot comprehend that some secrets may be being kept from them!

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
But you're not meant to know! That's where the conspiracy comes into the equation. . . I don't doubt for a minute that the good masons I've met on here would be outraged if they found out that their beloved fraternity was up to no good behind the scenes, but the fact is most of you refuse to accept that it might be taking place! That kind of faith is disturbing. . .

This is exactly the difference...

Nazis knew, so you could see it as an act by the organization.

Freemasons don't (if in fact anything were happening.) This means is is not an act by the organization, but by individuals.

reply to post by Saurus

When the Nazi trials were taken place and the horrors of the concenration camps came to light, ordinary German soldiers tried to distance themselves from the horror because they said they weren't aware of it or knew anything about it. It fell on deaf ears because without their membership to the Nazi party, and without their man power- belonging to the army etc, then the mass murder of jews couldn't have happened. They were guilty by association. . . just like masons would be if the fraternity were ever found guilty of a crime.

reply to post by Mintwithahole.


Mint, I think you are missing the point that "WE" are the fraternity. We are meant to know. I attend Grand Lodge meetings for my state, I read the agendas and the legislation. I vote, and I voice my opinion about executive orders. All the money raised and spent is public record. I don't agree with everything, but I am aware of it.

IF, and that is a big IF, anything wild was going on, it would have to be a small group meeting outside the normal groups, financing themselves privately, and not sharing their plans with anybody. IF that were going on, it would have absolutely nothing to do with FreeMasonry!

I am not saying that I can entirely discount the Illuminati, NWO, or any other take-over plot, but I can say with absolute certainty that 99.9% of FreeMasons are good people just trying to get by and any off-shoots of the fraternity are mere coincidences or misguided extremists!

THEY do not define the fraternity, WE do!