Jesus Christ is the only way, page 9

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reply posted on 14-7-2009 @ 07:53 PM by rogerstigers

reply to post by Evangelical

JC is your truth, not mine. The fact that you cannot see that what I believe is just as valid as what you believe is truely your problem, not mine. I am at peace in my life and have no need to press my beliefs onto anyone. I merely challenge the imposition of other people's beliefs into my life.

Oh, and the reason you don't have shellfish distributors trying to silence xtians is because the xtians don't treat them like they are evil.

[edit on 7-14-2009 by rogerstigers]

reply posted on 14-7-2009 @ 07:56 PM by jokei

Evangelical, you're hilarious... the only christian (small c) on here seemingly with a shred of decency and manners is octotom - kudos.

Of course I don't really care for the christians, nor about their feelings, there's been enouugh damage done to the planet and societies in the name of god(s) than ANYTHING.

Hmm, would you Adam & Eve it? god gave humans free-will, so we could make our own mistakes and all that sort of thing and Lucifer, well he was just a bit uppity and was cast out because he/she/it had choices too... err...

Evangelical and the other one (sorry, forgot your name), you guys seem pretty nasty about gays, ok so you hate their "sins" but it also sounds like you shun them, you wouldn't ask them into your house, allow your kids to be friends with their kids? Wow, I thought jesus was all for the tolerance and hanging out with hookers, being kind and stuff.

The only problem in the UK with christians is (they're not in China or the Forum)... or from the christian perspective, no one really bothers with it anymore, it's like dayglo or inflatable trainers - we're growing out of it thanks and it really doesn't help with priests touching kids so often.

Can't find the other article, but it was one of the high-ups saying "Game over" in about 20 years - might buy myself a derelict church to live in at some point - nice acoustics.

www.dunfermlinepress.com...

reply posted on 14-7-2009 @ 07:57 PM by JaxonRoberts

Originally posted by Evangelical
Paul says if Christianity were not true, if Christ were not risen from the dead, then all this is stupid and in vain.

Smart guy, I like him already!

But Christianity is incontrovertibly true and to deny this truth is to be a Sheeple.

Oh, let's take a look at that word, shall we:

in⋅con⋅tro⋅vert⋅i⋅ble

–adjective
not controvertible; not open to question or dispute; indisputable: absolute and incontrovertible truth.

The only peice of evidence to prove Christianity is the Bible, and that's hardly incontrovertible! There is absolutely no proof that any of it actually happened! From the Garden of Eden to Noah's Ark. From the Virgin Birth to the Miraculous Resurection. From Acts of the Apostles to John's really bad acid trip!

The evidence of it's possible BS content: The Council of Nicea, the oral tradition of Genesis to Exodus for countless generations before being recorded, the discovery of Jesus' tomb in 1988 (with him still in it), the inconsistencies in the Gnostic Gospels compared to the 'Official Version' and from each other... Well, you get my point!

reply posted on 14-7-2009 @ 07:57 PM by octotom

reply to post by suomichris

Okay, but then why is the bit about homosexuality still quoted up and down, but you don't see Christians boycotting shellfish distributers?

Christians oppose homosexuality because it is condemned in the New Testament as well.

There is also an allusion to God condemning homosexuality before the Law was given which would make it valid today as well. Essentially, since Christ fulfilled the law for us, we're not bound by it. But, that's only for the Law. There were some commands given before the Law, namely capital punishment. So, that is why Christians today [if they know their stuff and don't follow blindly] support the death penalty. God said that anyone who kills another is to be put to death.

I hope that makes sense. It's late over here and I should probably get to bed.

We don't boycott shellfish distributers because the prohibition against shellfish was in the Law. Since Christ fulfilled the Law, we're not obligated to follow the dietary laws. Also, in Acts, God told Peter that it is okay to eat anything. Jesus also said this. "It's not what goes into the body but what comes out that makes a man unclean."

reply posted on 14-7-2009 @ 07:58 PM by Evangelical

Originally posted by suomichris

Originally posted by octotom
reply to post by suomichris

Or, you'd just adjust your beliefs.

No, as I said, I wouldn't believe anymore. It'd be pointless. The "point" of Jesus' story wouldn't be there anymore. I wouldn't start interpreting the Bible allegorically either. It would be a fraud and worthless if Christianity could be proven false.

Okay, you wouldn't. I think you could find people who would, though...

This is what Christians have always done in the face of demonstrable challenges to their faith...

What are these "challenges" that you're referring to?

Well, the Earth being an orb floating in space, not being the center of the universe, etc. Those seem silly to us today, but there was a time when these were fundamental Christian doctrines. Once it became clear that the Earth was, in fact, not at the center of the universe, that bit just disappeared from the doctrine.

This is tiresome, the Bible says the earth is round, and that it is not the center of the universe, and it says there are as many stars as grains of sand which is concievably true, even tho the naked eye can only see about 10,000 stars.

The Bible is infallible, why would you use evidence of people ignoring the
bible to disprove the Bible?

reply posted on 14-7-2009 @ 08:01 PM by Darth Lumina

No, Jesus is not the only way, but a false way. I keep with the creator only, the bible is garbage that has nothing to do with "god" and jesus (if he actually existed) was just a man who is more on philosopher status, not a "son of god" or any of that silly stuff. Many get into the "oh Jesus died for your sins, blah blah" well that's great, but so do a lot of servicemen/women die so we can enjoy our freedoms we so take for granted. But don't worry, even I don't know all of their names so don't feel bad. I understand everyone has their own beliefs, but I encourage everyone who is part of any organized religion to just focus on the creator instead of the bible or the jesus fable. Trust me, you'll find yourselves much happier and free.

reply posted on 14-7-2009 @ 08:02 PM by Evangelical

All people are created equal is a Christian concept. It's reduculous that persons relying on Christian beliefs for their own morals would reject Christianity. In a relative world the Vikings were just as right to kill and pillage.

reply posted on 14-7-2009 @ 08:02 PM by octotom

reply to post by suomichris

Well, the Earth being an orb floating in space, not being the center of the universe, etc. Those seem silly to us today, but there was a time when these were fundamental Christian doctrines. Once it became clear that the Earth was, in fact, not at the center of the universe, that bit just disappeared from the doctrine.

Not only Christians believed that, but, Europe as a whole. I wouldn't call the flat-earth belief Christian doctrine, but simply common knowledge.

Interestingly though, there are verses in the Bible that say that the Earth is round [In Job and Psalms]. So, after it was discovered that the Earth was round, the verses made more sense than they would have before hand. Before that, the church, because it's how Catholics interpret the Bible, would've just attributed an allegorical meaning to the verses that teach that the Earth is round.

reply posted on 14-7-2009 @ 08:04 PM by rogerstigers

reply to post by Evangelical

Evangelical. Recognize, if you will, that I am not trying to sway you away from Christianity. I actually don't care that you are Christian. What I am puzzled and curious about is why you feel you have to convert other people? What is it about Christianity that makes you impose it on other people? If it were so obviously and unerrantly true, wouldn't people just want to learn about it without all the effort on your part to convince them?

reply posted on 14-7-2009 @ 08:06 PM by rogerstigers

reply to post by Evangelical

Um, it may be a concept implied (although not practiced) by Christianity, it is NOT a Christian concept. The concept was around long before the time of Christ, although the definition of "people" has always been in question, even up to modern times.

reply posted on 14-7-2009 @ 08:06 PM by Evangelical

Moses wrote Genesis to Deuteronomy, that's all that matters there.

Archaeology proved the Bible as a know it was agreed upon as the word of God long before the council of nicea.

reply posted on 14-7-2009 @ 08:07 PM by octotom

reply to post by rogerstigers

If it were so obviously and unerrantly true, wouldn't people just want to learn about it without all the effort on your part to convince them?

You should know, as a former Christian, that the Bible says that Christians need to go out and spread the gospel. Of course, there is a right and wrong, good and bad, imposing not imposing way, to go about it.

As to the first part of the quoted sentence, I think that people don't flock to hear what Christians believe mainly because of the hypocrisy that they see in the mainstream/famous Christianity. All they see are the bad apples and not the normal, average man that is striving to live out his faith and live in the way that Christ wanted us to, who realizes that he is no different, or better, than anyone else.

ETA: Off to bed now, thanks for the discussion!

[edit on 7/14/2009 by octotom]

reply posted on 14-7-2009 @ 08:09 PM by Evangelical

reply to post by rogerstigers

If Jesus is true then what else is true? You will die and go to Hell without him. That is why we tell you the good news. Why do you feel it is somehow oppressive to hear the truth unless because you are a sinner?

reply posted on 14-7-2009 @ 08:09 PM by theyreadmymind

Originally posted by octotom
reply to post by suomichris

Okay, but then why is the bit about homosexuality still quoted up and down, but you don't see Christians boycotting shellfish distributers?

Christians oppose homosexuality because it is condemned in the New Testament as well.

I understand that homosexuality is condemned in the N.T. but where does it say that you are supposed to condemn it? Just asking.

reply posted on 14-7-2009 @ 08:11 PM by rogerstigers

reply to post by octotom

heh, octomon called me out.

Actually, I was never exposed to that part of it. I heard about it though and never quite understood it. Yeah, there was something in the new testament about sharing the word, but I always felt and was taught that it was meant to be a passive thing. Talk about it with an open heart, but don't ever imply that you posses the true knowledge of god because there is no way that any man could.

*shrug* I am picking nits anyway. This is whole thread is just bait. I enjoy the discussion and actually I am surprised by the general level of civlity in this discussion tonight.

reply posted on 14-7-2009 @ 08:12 PM by octotom

reply to post by theyreadmymind

Perhaps condemn is too harsh a word. Maybe "not approve" is better. Since homosexuality is a sin, a Christian shouldn't support it because it goes against what God wants. It would be like a Christian being in favor of adultery, it just doesn't jive.

Now I'm really off to bed. Thanks again for the discussion everyone!

reply posted on 14-7-2009 @ 08:12 PM by Jomina

Originally posted by Evangelical
reply to post by suomichris

God refuses to hear them.

So you speak for God? Directly his mouthpiece?

With all the other things going on in the world, all the atrocities, hatred and pain, WHY do people always focus on the gay/not gay issue?

Do you know any bible verses that condemn hatred? Just checking your background and intent here.

As to whether or not "god hears them", to be fair, that can be said of every single human being on the face of this earth, now and past. Why? Because all people, according to the bible, are sinners and refuses to hear us.

Isn't that why Christ supposedly came?

So why spew hatred out on a constant basis like you seem prone to doing, and start spreading the light of christ's love? Or are you just using christianity and the bible as an excuse to spew your hatred you have in your heart?

Did Christ ever speak in the tones and terms you speak? Didn't he lament and mourn even one lost sheep?

So if the master you claim to serve never acted in such ways, and he is GOD to you, WHY do you act in opposition to him? Why are you standing in the way of any person's pathway to God, by your festering hate for them being gay?

Isn't that Satan?

You people are confusing.

reply posted on 14-7-2009 @ 08:14 PM by rogerstigers

reply to post by Evangelical

Evangelical, I feel that you imposing your beliefs upon me is wrong for the same reason you feel teaching kids that gays are perfectly normal people is wrong.

reply posted on 14-7-2009 @ 08:14 PM by seanizle

reply to post by Evangelical

Why isn't jesus helping the 1 billion people who are starving to death in the world? O thats right because he was just some guy who helped people out 2000 years ago and then got turned into a super hero by some guy in a mud hut.

reply posted on 14-7-2009 @ 08:16 PM by suomichris

Originally posted by Evangelical
Moses wrote Genesis to Deuteronomy, that's all that matters there.

Archaeology proved the Bible as a know it was agreed upon as the word of God long before the council of nicea.

What evidence? The Council was held specifically because people DIDN'T agree on the bible!!!! Or if Jesus was god or not. And a host of other things. Where is this "evidence" that there was wide-spread agreement???