Jesus Christ is the only way

reply to post by TurkeyBurgers

People "convert" to some other religion because they are influenced by the devil and turn away from the real truth of God.

Not completely right. People 'convert' to some other religion because they are abused by Christians and ARE TURNED from God. If there's truth, why the fire, brimstone and the Bible Hammer? Nowhere have I read that Truth needs to be jammed in with a 20 lb sledge.... Only people who do stuff like that are hard sell pitchmen, car salesmen, and timeshare rental people. And Christians. And if you look at the preceding, almost everything they sell aint worth it. So Why do Christians need a hard sell if what they're pushing is so wonderful? People gravitate to wonderful for the most part...

A bit of the problem seems to be a 'hard sell' for a 'free gift'. Whenever someone's pushing something free really hard, one's hackles go up.

reply to post by DaisyAnne


I would say they are this closed minded on this site, but if you actually talk to them in person, they are actually just as bad, if not worse. There was once a time where I was naive enough to think that everyone respected others opinions, but growing up I realized this wasn't true. I've always had some christian come up to me to "help me see the light", to "save me" to "bring me to the lord", etc etc. I used to be polite about it, but in the past couple of years, I just don't care if they wish me to burn in their fictional hell.

I remember sitting in a kitchen of my neighbor who were to my surprise more religious than I thought. First the lady explains to me how she enjoys having people of different faiths and backgrounds come over, discuss what they are about, they discuss them and it becomes an attempt to embrace everyones ways and learn from each other. Well, of course I was excited about this because I didn't know too many christians to do this, but as I started getting into what I believe, I was immediately cut off the moment she didn't agree with it, started muttering bible quotes ( I think there was a little bit of The Secret in there because those words got mentioned a few times) and just her normal friendly, calm demeanor turned into this crazy person, obviously trying to "save me" and convert me.

But as soon as I mentioned something off topic, she and her husband seemed to "return to normal" and then I politely excused myself as it was getting pretty late. This is just one of many examples I have of christians constantly trying to convert, but don't want to hear anything that goes against their religion. It is because they are taught to reject all other faiths as false and wrong. I often go with my girlfriend and her family because it is fun to watch.

I think I have more fun there probably more than the actually followers and members because everyone word they say, just reinforces my beliefs, it's very amusing. Today, they were just trashing talking pagans and homosexuals as people to be avoiding. Pagans mostly. I just couldn't believe how little these people know of pagans that they mistrust and hate so much. They even tell everyone to go out and try to get people into the church because the attendance of the church is low or not changing. To them, this is a bad thing, to me, it tells me people are starting to become more intelligent and they can see through the b.s.

I remember this paster I'm talking about, actually had the nerve to say that he was glad events like 9/11 or hurricane katrina happen because it brings people back to the church and is hoping for more events like that. So, that tells me that when these people talk about predictions/prophecies in the bible coming true, it's simply followers of this faith making sure it happens to keep people in the church and to continue to follow. But I know longer care to have any kind of rational discussion with christians or any one of a religion unless they want one. There aren't too many takers, but here and there I get some who can discuss their believes as well as mine and we can have a beer afterwards later. If that can only happen on a grander scale, this world would be a much better place.

reply to post by Darth Lumina


If I were a religous person Darth, I would say: AMEN!!! to that.
But instead I say, I can't do nothing but agree with you.
I have similar experiences where christians ( and others with different faiths as well ) have judge me and think they know me just because I don't walk the same path they do.

reply to post by DaisyAnne

They don't want to discuss anything. They just want to preach, accuse and condemn.

I am gonna admit, this is a cheap shot, but what the hey.

They call Satan 'The Accuser', but they do just as much, if not (if it's possible) MORE accusing! These people need to sit back and think about what they're doing. Or, they probably do, and think it's 'ok' for them to rip someone stem to stern, because 'God told 'em to do it'.

reply to post by Darth Lumina


Agreed!

I suppose I was naive in thinking that we as a species had evolved to the point that we could discuss our beliefs and the beliefs of others, with an open mind. I thought that the fundamentalists were in the minority. I can see now that I was wrong. What a shame that is.

reply to post by wylekat


It is amazing what some perceived idea of moral and religious superiority will do to someone's behaviour, isn't it? Just ask the millions who were burned alive as witches. Afterall, what did they do, if not the performance of miraculous deeds without the license of the church. There's an old Latin axiom that goes something like this:

"Si duo faciunt idem, non est idem."

(If two do the same thing, it is not the same thing.)

ok quick question what would be the seven golden candle sticks that the on that the fallen walks in front of? because specifically repent fro which you have fallen so we know that the one isnt jesus. because jesus was the one relaying the message to john fromhe angels, or something like that.

Tell that to the parents of the little girl here in my home town who was raped and murdered. Her free will raped, Her innocence violated and you dare justify your GOD who sits on a thrown of Judgment and does nothing.

“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” -Stephen Roberts from ATS Link



End of line.....

My money's on Tupac or Elvis coming back before Jesus.

Any prophecy in the bible is strictly interpretation by the reader. Given the way the world is- who can say they didn't see this coming? Religion is a big enough deal without throwing predictions in there.

Besides those famous sandals that people have claimed to find from Jesus, I doubt the man left any "prophecies" that are accurate in our day and age.

'Babylon, the jewel of kingdoms, the glory of the Babylonians pride, will be overthrown by God like Sodom and Gomorrah. She will never be inhabited or lived in through all generations; no Arab will pitch his tent there, no shepherd will rest his flocks there. But desert creatures will lie there, .. I will turn her into a place for owls and into a swampland; I will sweep her with the broom of destruction,' declares the Lord Almighty... (Isaiah 13:19-21, 23 NASB)

The prophet Jeremiah (sixth century BC) wrote extensively of Babylon's coming destruction and adds detail:

'Flee out of Babylon; leave the land of the Babylonians, and be like the goats that lead the flock. For I will stir up and bring against Babylon an alliance of great nations from the land of the north. They will take up their positions against her, and from the north she will be captured... So Babylonia will be plundered;... Like a lion coming up from Jordan's thickets to a rich pastureland, I will chase Babylon from its land in an instant... Babylon will suddenly fall and be broken... I will fill you with men, as with a swarm of locusts, and they will shout in triumph over you... No rock will be taken from you for a cornerstone, nor any stone for a foundation, for you will be desolate forever,' declares the Lord.

The sea will rise over Babylon; its roaring waves will cover her. Her towns will be desolate, a dry and desert land, a land where no one lives... I will make her officials and wise men drunk,... they will sleep forever and not awake... Babylon's thick walls will be leveled... When you finish reading this scroll, tie a stone to it and throw it into the Euphrates. Then say, 'So will Babylon sink to rise no more...' (from Jeremiah chapters 50 and 51 NASB)

In 539 BC, Cyrus the Great, of Persia, circumvented Babylon's impenetrable walls and gates by cleverly redirecting the Euphrates River with deep trenches. Culminating on October 13, Persian troops then marched out of the north along the shallow riverbed beneath Babylon's walls and secured the city in a single night. The night of the attack caught the Babylonians by surprise as it corresponded with an annual festival they were celebrating. From this point in history, Babylon only declined.

Xerxes, grandson of Cyrus, plundered the city of much of its treasures during his reign of 485-465 BC. Alexander the Great, conqueror of the Persian Empire, decided in 323 BC that he would rebuild the city to become his worldwide capital. However, he died a few days after work had begun.

Immediately, Alexander's generals struggled for portions of the empire and the great Babylon found itself to be the unlikely battleground for the bloody contest of the Persian Empire's new successor. By the time the Seleucids finally took possession of Babylon, the city and fortifications had been sufficiently wracked by destruction and plundering that it was abandoned for a new city being built forty miles to the north. Though this ended Babylon as a city-state, its protective walls remained sufficiently intact to allow armies to safely inhabit its enclosure.

Babylon was not utterly destroyed until some 600 years later during the reign of Julian the Apostate; the Emperor of Rome who sought to rid the Roman Empire of Christianity. While battling the Persian army in AD 363, he ordered that the remaining walls of the former city be destroyed so as to never again afford the Persian army shelter.

Since the fourth century, the prophecies for the destruction of Babylon have appeared to be almost completely fulfilled. Even the paradox that Babylon would both be covered by waves and be a dry and desert land seems to be true. Ruins on the original site are largely below a barren and sand swept surface that is occasionally flooded by the Euphrates. Meanwhile, the Encyclopedia Britannica observes that,

A large part of the old city buried under a deep bed of silt remains to be found, and the Babylon of Hammurabi, of which only the slenderest traces have been detected, now lies beneath the water table. 1

Literally and figuratively concerning this part of the city, "So will Babylon sink to rise no more...".

The latest development concerning Babylon has actually occurred within the last decade. U.S. News and World Report has cited Iraq's designs for reconstructing parts of Babylon for the sake of family-oriented tourism. However, evidence of state sponsored genocide, terrorism, routine torture of its citizenry, and frequent calls for Muslims worldwide to destroy the West seem to present formidable obstacles for Iraq to successfully host any kind of Middle East Disneyland.

Though Iraq's plans appear improbable for the near future, some kind of effort has reportedly begun. Given the apparent success with which heavenly forces have had in continually returning Babylon to ruins, however, potential visitors to any recreated Babylon would do well to remember the biblical prophecies rate of success so far.

The biblical writers had foretold Babylon's destiny long before it came to be. Even at the close of the Old Testament and later during the time of Christ, Babylon was still a substantial city. By that time, much of what had been foretold of Babylon's decline, had come true, but some prophecies had not yet been fulfilled. Its last destruction was brought about, not by zealous followers trying to fulfill Scripture, but by antagonists one thousand years later who were out to destroy Christianity.

The prophecies of Babylon were clearly not written after the fact nor did they simply predict generalized and highly likely events. Remember that the Babylon of which Isaiah and Jeremiah spoke was the equivalent to an England or Germany of today. Babylon's location on a major waterway was, and still is, ideal for commerce. Yet it remains desolate while many obviously lesser cities in the surrounding Middle East have been destroyed and rebuilt many times over. The fall of Babylon was completely outside the capabilities of the biblical prophets to estimate or to bring about.

How did those prophets know what would happen? It was their claim that God revealed these things to them. The fact that these prophecies and every other biblical prophecy of old has been fulfilled, save for Christ's return, gives great support to that claim.

In the eleventh year, on the first day of the month, the word of the Lord came to me: '...I am against you, O Tyre, and I will bring many nations against you, like the sea casting up its waves. They will destroy the walls of Tyre and pull down her towers; I will scrape away her rubble make her a bare rock... From the north I am going to bring against Tyre Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, king of kings, with horses and chariots, with horsemen and a great army... They will plunder your wealth and loot your merchandise; they will break down your walls and demolish your fine houses and throw your stones, timber and rubble into the sea... I will make you a bare rock, and you will become a place to spread fishnets. You will never be rebuilt, for I the Lord have spoken, declares the Sovereign Lord.' (from Ezekiel chapter 26 NASB)

This prophecy for the city of Tyre, which came through the prophet Ezekiel around 588 BC, is a picture of destruction similar to that which was given for Babylon. Also similar is the great length of time over which these specific prophetic events came to pass. Ezekiel prophesied about a number of cities; each with different futures, but none was so interesting and fulfilled in such an unusually literal way as the destruction of Tyre.

-- HOW HISTORY TURNED OUT

Tyre was a significant coastal city located west of the mountains of Lebanon on the Mediterranean. It had a natural harbor that was protected by an island one-half mile off shore. Tyre fell under siege to Nebuchadnezzar as prophesied. The siege dragged on for thirteen years. During this time, the entire city of Tyre was moved to its much more defensible harbor island. Babylon took the mainland city of Tyre by 573 BC but, without a navy, was unable to pursue the war to the island stronghold. For more than two centuries, the city remained centralized on their island fortification.

In 332 BC, Alexander the Great marched on Tyre when it refused to deny the use of its harbors to his enemies. The Encyclopedia Britannica writes,

Possessing no fleet, he demolished old Tyre, on the mainland, and with the debris built a new mole 200 ft. (60m.) wide across the straits separating the old and new towns, erecting towers and war engines at the farther end. 2

When the use of every rock and remnant of old Tyre fell short of reaching the island by about one hundred yards, Alexander called on the help of other nations. With over two hundred ships which they supplied to him, he finally seized and ravaged the island city. Tyre thereafter recovered, but was again laid siege to and burned by Antigonus in 314 BC.

The next blow to the city was the gradual shifting of commerce to the south. Tyre continued to exist, but in declining wealth and influence. As late as AD 1291 the island city was intensely fought over and eventually won by the Moslems. They massacred the inhabitants and the city was utterly destroyed to prevent its use against Moslems in the future. Today, the harbor is port only to local fishing boats. A small fishing village exists on the island, but in a location opposite of where the island sheltered the extinct city of Tyre. As secular historian Philip Myers writes,

The larger part of the site of the once great city is now bare as the top of a rock - a place where the fishermen that still frequent the spot spread their nets to dry. 3

Clearly, the 2,600 years of history which have passed since Ezekiel's day all look favorably upon his claim that he received special revelations of future events.

The Bible's legitimate foretelling of major events before their occurrence indicates something beyond natural human capability. The Bible's claim that fulfilled prophecy is an act of an all-knowing and all-powerful God is a very plausible explanation. If you desire more examples of fulfilled prophecy that can be substantiated with explicit archaeological evidence, research the following cities: Edom, Petra - the capital of Edom, Nineveh, Thebes, Memphis, Gaza, Ashkelon, Samaria, and Jerusalem

reply to post by DaisyAnne

It is amazing what some perceived idea of moral and religious superiority will do to someone's behaviour, isn't it?

Like watching Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, really.

Just ask the millions who were burned alive as witches.

Burned, their insides removed while still conscious, water forced into them til their stomachs burst, put to torture devices the likes of which people have never seen unless you happen on a link on the internet, fed boiling oil, lead, or other chemicals... But hey, it's all for God, and converting the heretic, so 'it's all good'.

Afterall, what did they do, if not the performance of miraculous deeds without the license of the church.

More and less than that, really. Science, astronomy, chemistry, mechanics, art... You name it, the Church suppressed it and stalled progress I would say at LEAST 500 years. It's a rough guess on my part, but the 1600's would have seen the first men on the moon, and by 1920, interplanetary flight should have been the norm. EVERYTHING had to be passed thru the church like gravel thru a sick cow. Independent thought, discoveries, everything was being censored. And just like a child who is told no for everything and locked in his room, our growth was retarded greatly.

reply to post by wylekat


Not to mention all of the Discovery that the Muslim religion crushed under their footprint in history.

The art of calligraphy was developed because of Islamic suppression of the arts and artists. Islam forbade the drawing of living things especially the human likeness, and left no choice for artists but to draw words and letters. The countries that were forced into Islam have been deprived of the art of sculpture and paintings for centuries, denying many nations of a vital part of their history.

www.hudsonny.org...


How far of a fall down the ladder of human advancement has Islam brought us? I would say a long long way.

To prevent someone from even having the ability to draw the human body for the gain of Medicine and Science is such a devastating blow to understanding and the search for answers.

I would also like to point out the siege that Islamic Fundamentalism continues to wage against the Art of Music and the complete enslavement and servitude of arguably 50% of it's members in the guise of "Protecting the Men from dirty thoughts".

I would argue that the men must be pretty weak to not be able to handle the image of a woman's body and to not be able to have self control over their actions. What a bunch of wusses!

They are so weak they throw blankets over the women? Why do they not just put blankets over their own eyes?

Why do the men not wear full body covers also so that the women would not be tempted by the sight of the men?

Sigh. I could be flying around in a anti-gravity ship right now listening to the latest album from the Greys.

reply to post by Dometheus


Or you could blame the individuals that did it instead of blaming the excuse.... But wait, that would take away another illusionary support for your crusade.

reply to post by TurkeyBurgers


It's interesting how the 2 most opposite religions seem to work hand in hand with suppression and the like. Why would 2 diametrically opposed belief systems each have ways of suppressing important advances in areas of science, art, technology, music (and the list goes on)?

I am over simplifying things a lot, but why did Allah and God need the human race in the dark for centuries? Why are both trying to keep us in the dark even now? Why are both trying to keep us divided? Is the human race a threat to these gods with enough knowledge? Are we able to take on the most 'powerful' beings in the universe if we simply all banded together and worked as a whole?

Very odd. I wonder what's missing, what's not being mentioned with both religions. I dont even wanna dare try to complicate and stir the pot by adding in the Jewish end of things into it. No. Wait. Mebbe we should- make a list, and see what's going on here- and try to do it without bashing too many heads in with crazed opinions of the others' beliefs. Something's starting to stink about the whole mess, to me.

reply to post by wylekat


LOL I think you are describing the plot of "Stargate"

I have proposed this question before before but received no answer.

What would a God need with Emotions?

God gets mad and kills a few people. God gets mad and orders the slaughter of every living thing in a village. God gets furious and destroys an entire city. Gets gets ultra hardcore rage mode and completely floods the entire planet.

The God of the Bible needs to learn to "Create" some Prozac. Why is God always so mad? What would a God need with Emotion?

reply to post by wylekat


Actually Christianity and Islam have a great deal in common. Not least among them is the fact that Islam also venerates many of the figures venerated in Christianity, even J.C. .

reply to post by TurkeyBurgers

LOL I think you are describing the plot of "Stargate"

Huh. I watched a few eps, never liked it, really. But that IS an interesting thing... I wasn't even aiming for a comparison to that show, honest!

I have proposed this question before before but received no answer. What would a God need with Emotions?

You really expect an answer? You'd get the usual "DOES NOT COMPUTE! YOU HAVE NO FAITH!" and then their heads explode. Happens with all the tough questions that the religion dares not think about- because it's the very thing that will shatter it. What makes it of interest is how certain people ridicule and attempt to even ruin you for asking such things- but all the while "show the love of Jesus".

Anyways... it always interested me how we little mortals are so expendable in God's eyes, yet Satan, who openly rebelled to God's face, was merely thrown out. The famous verse "God is not a MAN that he should lie"... Simple argument: Satan's not a 'man'- Satan lies... what th-?! Are we such contemptible piles of **** that God has gotta throw insults at us like that? God CREATED the mess on earth before and after the flood- ALLOWED the fallen angels to come have women- obviously allowed them to get them pregnant- And supposedly, God was a lot more active in people's day to day events (Tower of Babel, anyone?) And was right in the thick of screwing the human race right into the ground- "yipe! People banded together are capable of anything! Better nip this but Quick!!" Say... sounds familiar, doesn't it? Create division to keep us from all banding together... *You hear a loud "HMMMMMM" go around the thread, and a few derisive laughs* However... the bunch of people who SHOULD be 'allowed' to band together- well, God's got Ol Satan keeping THEM divided. I kid you not, it's a classic abuse situation. Funny how there's specific, precise ways to keep humanity from actually banding together as a whole. God's temper tantrums are such a method and tool. "Your God killed x people! Shame! Bad God! No worship from me!" You then have John Q. Christian screaming at that person "Burn IN HELL, oh HERETIC! My GOD Shall AVENGE me FOR your" Blah blah blah.

(The fun part is then J.Q.C. then goes out and sins his weaselly black ass off and only has to ask forgiveness.)

Let's not leave out Islam... Not only do you get the same crummy mess- wrapped in a suicide bomb and funny clothes, But all that's actually changed is the wording: " You have offended ALLAH! Now DIE, Infidel!" Muslims have just been given permission to do God's -oops- Allah's work a little more directly. Of course, to keep both sides from meeting in the middle in a friendly manner, How God presents himself- oops- allows Satan present himself to muslims, each holy book is written is done in such a way to cause mental nausea for the opposing side.

Also... notice a trend: God who has temper tantrums, he has FOLLOWERS who have temper tantrums. A God who does mean and evil things to people, he has FOLLOWERS who do the same (but are completely cleared to ask forgiveness). Ya know- it's starting to look like Christians ARE 'Godly'. Just in a way that makes you want to hide under the sheets and shiver.

How does Jesus fit in? Classic 'good cop/ bad cop'. Just another tool, another way to rake in $$ for the Christian side. Islam has it's people by their proverbial dangling participles, offering instant heaven for blowing up whatever, Christianity has to be the *cough* 'kinder, gentler religion'. And yet, both factions are as evil as I am ugly! One side says die now and go to hell, the other tells ya to go to hell, and then tries to send you there when you aren't looking...

Where does this leave the ones who have been destroyed by either religion? Screwed. Simply Screwed. Merely casualties in a cosmic game of Monopoly (in some cases, Doom or Quake). Actual 'good' people who do good things, who have compassion for all who are completely incapable of evil thoughts are the ones most quickly chewed up in this....

Well the Two Witnesses when they get here will throw temper tantrums and alter the weather and give you as many plagues as they desire so good luck when they get here because it won't be fun for you. Of course most Christian followers won't even like them.

That's NOT a joke.

Just wait till the fallen angels get here. I don't have a closed mind. There is only one living God and He's upset that humanity is away from Him. Don't go to Churches to know the truth. Go seek Him YOURSELF.

reply to post by watchtheashes

That's NOT a joke.

Neither is the pain, frustration, defeat, confusion, and all those other yummy things a 'loving' religion has shoved up both nostrils. Tho I applaud you on yet another take on 'DIE and go to hell'. Time and again, the reasons why Christians are treated like they are get pointed out, and time and again, the same response is (insert random spiritual mayhem here). Doom bible verses. "Uh oh, you're gonna get (insert MORE mayhem here)." Then tell people how "Jesus loves you!" No one likes incongruities. If Jesus truly loves us, why are we getting the impression he's hiding in the bushes with a 2x4 with a rusty nail stuck in it?! Is he the Good Shepard, or a rabid German Shepard? And then have the gall to wonder why some people (myself included) are now wondering if religion and the universe's PTB are even *real*?? Do you people even stop to listen to yourselves? Or do you and nod at your pretend, obvious 'superiority' over us lesser, more *cough cough* flawed mortals?!

According to Christians:
I try to pray, I pray wrong. I ask God for the wrong stuff. If (ok, always) when things go wrong, it's my fault- even when it should NEVER have been my fault to begin with. When stuff goes unnaturally berserk, It's STILL my fault. When someone uses me like their personal target, it's "free will" Someone's child dies, it's God's plan. So- when do you people start showing love, and stop showing off? When does the abuse and threats stop?

If heaven's gonna be full of people like this, I'll pass.

[edit on 20-7-2009 by wylekat]