Jesus Christ is the only way

reply to post by theyreadmymind


Dear theyreadmymind

Now that is interesting, I think that if as you call him Jesus comes back and said such a thing he would soon find himself locked in a white padded room.

Let us put it this way if he where born to a woman as he was 2000 odd years ago I sincerely doubt he would be recognized in this world today. For sure he can not use the same entrance as in the past. It would have to be something spectacular. Also it would have to be so all can see at that moment. Otherwise he for sure will end up in that padded room. Why because if he where only to appear to a few in authority for certain they would lock him away and hide that fact as they do with all things that affects their control over the population.

reply to post by MAC269


Yes, most likely, unless he were able to work the system in some way. I'm sure someone who really understood the way people and societies work could stir up some crap pretty good in this day and age.

Originally posted by DaisyAnne

If it is the sheer volume of evidence that is putting you off, how about you just try discussing one of them? That wouldn't be too hard, would it? If you truly think that you could do the research and come back with something, then I invite you to do just that. I would like at least one person that I challenge on this to follow through.

O.K. I did the research, came back with my answer, and it wasn't too hard; it was actually quite enriching to read once again about God's relationship with his unfaithful nation, Israel. And you came back with the answer I expected, which was essentially that my conclusions were wrong and my God is crazy/cruel/take your pick, and oh, if I had just read a bit further, I would reach the same conclusion as you (but I already DID read the whole story, before I posted). As I said, I would do the work if I thought there were any chance you would change your mind about Him. And so now you also want me to do it again with another verse, even though I said I would do the research if I thought you might change your mind, which you didn't. Anyway, I'll take a look at the verse you requested, in its context, which is the only way to understand the verse. I feel a whole lot like Charlie Brown, hoping Lucy won't pull away the football at the last second, like she always does. I appreciate the thank you and thumbs up for my follow-through, anyway. You're welcome!

reply to post by Evangelical

in all the history of the world Jesus is the only one to have claimed He is the Messiah. The only logical conclusion is Jesus is the Christ.

Actually.. I saw a homeless guy once claim he was the Messiah. I also saw a documentary on Cults where a few guys said such things.. and people even believed them...

Lets put our minds into the past.

The year is ..... 0 .... the region is torn apart by war, Roman occupation, the politics of the region are incredibly unstable. Economically the occupation has destroyed the region, while Rome pillages the land...

So the people are desperate, and some guy convinces a few people with the intelligence of a 3rd grader in our age that he was from God. Not surprising, people from Greece to Russia to America have claimed to be sired from the Gods for as long as man could talk. The man gathers a small cult following (it was technically speaking a cult) ... The desperate undereducated people looking for a political or religious savior are desperate for his speeches... so he gives them, moves the people, he was obviously a gifted speaker no? The story is mutated after he dies into a legendary tale incorporating indigenous stories to bolster it's appeal.. The facts become obscured by myth and legend, history, true history, like all things in history, becomes very inaccurate and we are left with this tale of all tales combined with more indigenous stories than any other religion and people, like your self to this day believe it with all their soul.

But it's irrelevant, isn't it?

I believe in my Gods, you can believe in yours. The notion that one belief is superior to another is only the crutch that those of weak conviction use to prop up their own spiritual shortcomings. To forcefully destroy the beliefs of another empowers your own and fills you with a sense of purpose. A wiser man than I once said "Tell me why you don't believe in my God, and I will tell you why I don't believe in yours". To someone somewhere we are all heretics, spiritually corrupt and destined for some form of punishment.

Perhaps instead of declaring truths, we all recognize we as a species are filled with a strong desire to search for the good and righteous in life, to find the meaning to which we can build our lives around, to find that divinity that is greater than us. To find the power that we can put all the answers to our unanswerable questions and simply call it divine purpose.

And in the end, for Christianity, all that really matters is that regardless if he was born from God of a virgin mother, or whether he really died for our sins.. He changed the World forever, and I suppose ultimately that's all that matters.

Originally posted by DaisyAnne

So, perhaps if you have some more time, how about this one:

I Kings 16:34

More human sacrifice ordered by the lord.

If you read the warning that Joshua made in Joshua 6:26, you see that Jericho was not to be rebuilt after God gave Israel the victory over that city. Joshua clearly tells the few people who were spared to not rebuild the city after it was destroyed, and what would happen to anyone who rebuilt it. But now in I Kings 29-34, Ahab is ruling over Israel, and worshiping Baal, and 'doing more to provoke the Lord, the God of Israel, to anger than all the kings of Israel who were before him'. Yup, we see God getting really angry again because of someone running after false gods! Under Ahab's rule, Hiel of Bethel did EXACTLY what Joshua said not to do, with the results exactly as forewarned by Joshua. Sorry, I don't see how this makes God a murderer or crazy or whatever you wish to call Him. These people had fair warning. If God says don't do something, and then you say "I'll do it if I want to", then you gets what you gets, especially when He tells you what the consequences will be!

reply to post by novacs4me


except your god isnt real.... it was some power hungry delusional man trying to find any excuse you fools would believe. It could have been a talking leaf for all they care. Im 100% sure that if our world was still completely overrun with religious idiots the salem witch trials would have been a god sent blessing to remove the evil spirits of satan.

You're missing the point here.
What I am saying is that just because I don't believe in god as you do, doesn't mean I hate him. Why should I hate someone who I don't think exist and ignore? It has nothing to do with the choice of believing or not.

Exactly my point. Why hate if you don't believe? All I'm saying is, if you were to believe in God, by chance, then you must have no doubts. You cannot be luke warm. I agree that there are many Christians who aren't very "godly", but that is what life is about. Learning. We make mistakes, we get passed them. I know it's hard to understand but Christians make mistakes too. And we are forgiven for them if we ask to be. You must forgive and let go of the hate.

??? Not to me.

Haha. You don't believe in God but you don't hate Him because He doesn't exist. I think I can grasp the aspect of what you mean.

Yes, you are right. I haven't judged until this point. And my judgement is based upon my "pissed-offness".
And how is that a good thing?
Is it good that all christians runs around inside their bubble speaking out loud that if you don't believe in my god you hate him and should be crucified?
Well, I can't see how our world would become better from sucha behavior.

Well, to answer your first sentence, yeah, I knew you were angry.
Because. To me it is. You look at a church and you see a power hungry group of people bent on power. I don't. I see people trying to enrich their life love and know that what they have done was wrong, but know Jesus and what He did for them. I'm not the biggest fan of the word "religion", but Jesus is a relationship. Not a religion. He is love. This is if your talking about Christians. I worship God because I want too. Not because someone tells me. Well see, now the bubble statement is a bit off the rail as well. I've never met one Christian that ran around saying anyone should be crucified. You my friend seriously need to get passed the bad aspect of Christianity because that is all you see. Like I said before, people hijack the religion for their own mundane purposes yet the religion is to blame? Not the people behind their own plan? Jesus was preaching love. If we loved our fellow man instead of ridiculing him, the world would be better. But that's what atheists think most Christians are. Ridiculing morons. There are some, but they are human. Realize. There are good and bad in everything. Stop generalizing all because of the bad. And you don't have to believe in God to be the better man. Forgive the ridiculing.

I am wll aware of that. But since it is ok for religous people to generalize...shouldn't it go both. And...I said, ALL I HAVE MET...not I HAVE MET ALL... =P

It's not okay for anyone to generalize. I can't say everyone is going to Hell because they don't believe in God. Only God knows what is inside the hearts of men. Righteous looking men may have hearts of evil. Evil looking men may have hearts of God. Only God knows. He will Judge. What does the term for Jesus "I'm the only way" mean? He mentions He is not a thief, but a giver. He doesn't steal life, He gives it. He wants people to accept what He has done for humanity. That's it. Stop blaming God because of His followers. Also, you've now met me. Am I the same as every other Christian you've met? If I had my own church and went around preaching, Hell would be the last thing I preach. I don't want anyone going to a place where they are tormented every second. If you don't believe, fine. I can't choose your path. Just know that I love you and that I would love to spend eternity with you. You've heard enough about the Bible from me, if you want to find the message read it again spiritually. If not, then don't. You choose. I won't judge you. We could still be friends regardless who believes what right?



[edit on 16-7-2009 by Water-tastes-good]

Originally posted by Evangelical
One of the greatest mysteries is that the Bible accurately predicts the coming of Christ and that in all the history of the world Jesus is the only one to have claimed He is the Messiah. The only logical conclusion is Jesus is the Christ. The NWO is probably real and is the instrument of Satan and we ate indeed nearing the end times.

My only logical conclusion is that this topic was created by an existing member who created a new profile. I assume it was created to start another creation vs atheist argument. I'm not gonna read the whole thread to see if someone else might have said the same thing


EDIT : That person is more than likely and atheist and/or evolutionist

[edit on 16-7-2009 by Lannock]

reply to post by novacs4me


I think we will have to agree to disagree

I couldn't stomach a God like that, but you can, and it is your right to do so.

I'm not taking the football away, Charlie Brown!

I just come to a different conclusion by reading the same verses as you. I do appreciate that you took the time to talk to me about it, and I don't want to make you have to explain every verse that I quoted.

The point remains the same, I suppose. He is your God, not mine. If you don't have a problem with it, then it's your business. I originally jumped in this thread because the OP asserted things that I found unfair to others. To claim your way as the only way is ridiculous, and also incorrect, because your way is distasteful to me. I have made my point in that respect, via the passages I quoted for you, and more. You have made the point that it really doesn't bother you, and so we must agree to disagree.

I don't get worked up because I disagree. I get worked up because I am categorized as a lower being and a hater of god because I disagree. Other than that, I agree with you in this section of the quote.

I understand why you disagree but why let a human define you? Who is to say you hate God? Only you can define yourself. Not humans. Especially Christians.

It is NOT evidence. It is a BOOK. Fiction. It is yesterdays education material. It may be, however, your guideline in life, your guidebook. But hardly evidence.
If someone wanted me to prove that a friend of mine exist, I would give them an adress, a picture or even take them to his house so they can meet him. I wouldn't run around with a phonebook with numbers in it that has no validity confirmation.

It is too evidence. I take it you thumb through the thing looking for contradictions and things that make God look like an evil being that if He was to exist, He would be a jerk? I disagree about it being fiction. It's anything but yesterday's education. We need it today. I read it to learn how to love my fellow man and live according to God's way.

It seems you are looking for evidence of God right? Then only you can find it. My advice would be to ask Him. If you can't see Him as a physical entity in the now, then He is not real, same with Jesus? Proof is not what it is about when it comes to God. It is about faith but I'm sure you knew that and disagree with that statement. Pray to Him and He will show you all the proof you need.


[edit on 16-7-2009 by Water-tastes-good]

reply to post by DaisyAnne
I have mixed feelings about ending the examination of the verses. I have found it an enriching experience, and I thank you for challenging me to do it. Now, in 'real' life, I have way too much going on in the next couple weeks to be able to talk on ATS much. You have been respectful in your disagreement, and I appreciate that. Perhaps in the future we will meet on another thread where we don't have to agree to disagree!

reply to post by nomorecruelty

I don't think I have witnessed such hatred for God, or the Bible, ever - like I have on this thread.

Well, at least mine's a good solid reason. Good ol' personal experience. You shouldn't have a religion that states (this is the simplistic version) "God loves you, and will answer your prayers" And then, when someone's prayers don't get answered, and their life ends up being hell- it has all sorts of ways to dance around the issue- leaving the person literally insane in their grief. I've heard all the 'biblical' answers, and not a one satisfies me. I want a REAL answer, straight from God's mouth.

I want to know why people who truly loved the Lord have been sent thru crap like this. I KNOW I am on the low end of the scale for this crap. "Being tested by God/ assaulted by Satan" doesn't wash with me- and I already have stated WHY. It's always the poor and the ones who canNOT help themselves who are being 'punished/ assaulted'. Not the ones with cash in the bank, or driving the nice car. THEY are the ones who get prayers answered, health problems healed, a spouse, a family, and on and on and ON. I have seen both sides of the coin, and neither is pretty. I have seen for myself the well off Christians living their good life, and I have seen the poor living on bare life support (Some of them are almost insane praising God 'to be alive'- And to be honest, you can tell. )

Here's my final statement: How come the nice, well off Christians with the extra cash, and the nice car are doing NOTHING but token acts to help the less well off? What makes YOU- You know who you are, whether you're on ATS or not If you're not like this, don't waste my time being 'offended'. For me, being 'offended' is the exact same as being guilty of it, so cool off that pointing finger- What makes YOU so much the freaking end you do NOT help the poor, the ones who cant help themselves, That guy who shows up to church WALKING every day- who just cant get a job, whose luck has gone haywire- the person on disability... How come it takes a 'special' collection at church to 'think' about those people? And then- the barest amounts go into the plate? (Wow! We raised $1000 for the ENTIRE community!... that place better be a population of 25, you ingrates.) Or, like I heard at one church.... who had a 'members only' food pantry, who barely did anything for the unfortunate- who collected $1500 for a truck to buy the pastor?! Not because he NEEDED transportation, this was a niftygift for him to play with!

Christians wanna make a dent in the world? Sell the freaking SUVs. Get rid of the big fancy house you have for eye candy. Lose the holier than thou attitude, dig deep into that vast bank account, and make the less fortunate's lives a little better- and quit flapping those gums about "God'll bless you- look how *I* am blessed"! Because I'll be perfectly honest- when it comes down to it, us poor and up the creek types would like to see all your fancy crap shoved up your rears til your face turns green....

Huh. Dreaded double post.

Edited to delete the thing.

[edit on 16-7-2009 by wylekat]

Originally posted by novacs4me
reply to post by DaisyAnne

 

I have mixed feelings about ending the examination of the verses. I have found it an enriching experience, and I thank you for challenging me to do it. Now, in 'real' life, I have way too much going on in the next couple weeks to be able to talk on ATS much. You have been respectful in your disagreement, and I appreciate that. Perhaps in the future we will meet on another thread where we don't have to agree to disagree!

I'm glad to hear that you found it enriching, and I have enjoyed our conversation!
I look forward to talking with you on more threads in the future

Originally posted by wylekat
reply to post by nomorecruelty

 

I don't think I have witnessed such hatred for God, or the Bible, ever - like I have on this thread.

Well, at least mine's a good solid reason. Good ol' personal experience. You shouldn't have a religion that states (this is the simplistic version) "God loves you, and will answer your prayers" And then, when someone's prayers don't get answered, and their life ends up being hell- it has all sorts of ways to dance around the issue- leaving the person literally insane in their grief. I've heard all the 'biblical' answers, and not a one satisfies me. I want a REAL answer, straight from God's mouth.

I want to know why people who truly loved the Lord have been sent thru crap like this. I KNOW I am on the low end of the scale for this crap. "Being tested by God/ assaulted by Satan" doesn't wash with me- and I already have stated WHY. It's always the poor and the ones who canNOT help themselves who are being 'punished/ assaulted'. Not the ones with cash in the bank, or driving the nice car. THEY are the ones who get prayers answered, health problems healed, a spouse, a family, and on and on and ON. I have seen both sides of the coin, and neither is pretty. I have seen for myself the well off Christians living their good life, and I have seen the poor living on bare life support (Some of them are almost insane praising God 'to be alive'- And to be honest, you can tell. )

Here's my final statement: How come the nice, well off Christians with the extra cash, and the nice car are doing NOTHING but token acts to help the less well off? What makes YOU- You know who you are, whether you're on ATS or not... If you're not like this, don't waste my time being 'offended'. For me, being 'offended' is the exact same as being guilty of it, so cool off that pointing finger- What makes YOU so much the freaking end you do NOT help the poor, the ones who cant help themselves, That guy who shows up to church WALKING every day- who just cant get a job, whose luck has gone haywire- the person on disability... How come it takes a 'special' collection at church to 'think' about those people? And then- the barest amounts go into the plate? (Wow! We raised $1000 for the ENTIRE community!... that place better be a population of 25, you ingrates.) Or, like I heard at one church.... who had a 'members only' food pantry, who barely did anything for the unfortunate- who collected $1500 for a truck to buy the pastor?! Not because he NEEDED transportation, this was a niftygift for him to play with!

Christians wanna make a dent in the world? Sell the freaking SUVs. Get rid of the big fancy house you have for eye candy. Lose the holier than thou attitude, dig deep into that vast bank account, and make the less fortunate's lives a little better- and quit flapping those gums about "God'll bless you- look how *I* am blessed"! Because I'll be perfectly honest- when it comes down to it, us poor and up the creek types would like to see all your fancy crap shoved up your rears til your face turns green....

[edit on 16-7-2009 by wylekat]

AMEN!

Originally posted by spy66
Who are you to think that you are the only one that has seen bad things. Do you think that shiiiit only flies around your shoes.
The things that i have seen have not been done by God but by MAN every time. God is just our excuse.

It's nice the christians are getting all accusative, I thought only god could judge?
Hmm...

That last line sums it all up nicely though "God is just our excuse".

Originally posted by wylekat
reply to post by nomorecruelty

 

Well, at least mine's a good solid reason. Good ol' personal experience. You shouldn't have a religion that states (this is the simplistic version) "God loves you, and will answer your prayers" And then, when someone's prayers don't get answered, and their life ends up being hell- it has all sorts of ways to dance around the issue- leaving the person literally insane in their grief. I've heard all the 'biblical' answers, and not a one satisfies me. I want a REAL answer, straight from God's mouth.

I want to know why people who truly loved the Lord have been sent thru crap like this. I KNOW I am on the low end of the scale for this crap. "Being tested by God/ assaulted by Satan" doesn't wash with me- and I already have stated WHY. It's always the poor and the ones who canNOT help themselves who are being 'punished/ assaulted'. Not the ones with cash in the bank, or driving the nice car. THEY are the ones who get prayers answered, health problems healed, a spouse, a family, and on and on and ON. I have seen both sides of the coin, and neither is pretty. I have seen for myself the well off Christians living their good life, and I have seen the poor living on bare life support (Some of them are almost insane praising God 'to be alive'- And to be honest, you can tell. )

Here's my final statement: How come the nice, well off Christians with the extra cash, and the nice car are doing NOTHING but token acts to help the less well off? What makes YOU- You know who you are, whether you're on ATS or not If you're not like this, don't waste my time being 'offended'. For me, being 'offended' is the exact same as being guilty of it, so cool off that pointing finger- What makes YOU so much the freaking end you do NOT help the poor, the ones who cant help themselves, That guy who shows up to church WALKING every day- who just cant get a job, whose luck has gone haywire- the person on disability... How come it takes a 'special' collection at church to 'think' about those people? And then- the barest amounts go into the plate? (Wow! We raised $1000 for the ENTIRE community!... that place better be a population of 25, you ingrates.) Or, like I heard at one church.... who had a 'members only' food pantry, who barely did anything for the unfortunate- who collected $1500 for a truck to buy the pastor?! Not because he NEEDED transportation, this was a niftygift for him to play with!

Christians wanna make a dent in the world? Sell the freaking SUVs. Get rid of the big fancy house you have for eye candy. Lose the holier than thou attitude, dig deep into that vast bank account, and make the less fortunate's lives a little better- and quit flapping those gums about "God'll bless you- look how *I* am blessed"! Because I'll be perfectly honest- when it comes down to it, us poor and up the creek types would like to see all your fancy crap shoved up your rears til your face turns green....

I'm going to shoot straight from the hip on this one -

You obviously aren't taking into consideration the things that you DO have in life - your mind, health, a roof over your head, eyesite, the ability to read, internet capabilities, etc.

It seems you spend a great deal of time 'keeping score' of everyone else's accomplishments? Maybe you are neglecting to realize just how blessed you truly are. You aren't living in some cardboard box under a bridge, you aren't out begging for food every night and wondering where you're going to sleep tonight, if you have a job you aren't wondering where your next paycheck will come from, or if.

I've been unemployed going on six months now - and yeah, I could sit around and whine about poor pitiful me but what is that going to accomplish - besides to continue to eat away at me with bitterness.

There's a saying that goes "Do what you can - and let God do what you can't". But you first have to do what you can before He can do what you can't.

God doesn't care for pride, or proud people filled with vanity and vain prayers. In all of your ranting against God, have you once stopped to thank Him for what all you are blessed with in life?
Humble yourself, my friend.

I'm just saying.

Originally posted by nomorecruelty
Why, why, why do atheists and non believers always, always, always assume that Christians are online, or on Earth for that matter, to convince anyone of anything?

A point to ponder.

Because seemingly most of you are here to egotistically prosyetlyse about Team Jesus. If you don't wish to be debated, don't post.

On a personal note, Once I prayed, Once - and it worked out for me, because of the nature of my prayer I have no respect for god... I don't believe.

How does this make sense? It's like disrespecting a cartoon character. As for christians... the majority on this thread seem to have issue with simplistic things like tolerance and bigotry. Over the course of this thread there's been much quoting of scripture from both sides and it shows the amount of contradictions in the bible (handy kindling).

When I have contact with christians, they don't bring out the best in me... and I'll gladly take the title of hater in this circumstance.

Jesus is the only way...AMEN!

Oh my Jesus, I adore You and I praise you because by Your Holy Cross You have redeemed the world.

Eternal Father, we offer you the body, blood, soul and divinity of your dearly beloved Son, Our Lord Jesus Christ. For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world. Amen.

Originally posted by novacs4me

Originally posted by DaisyAnne

So, perhaps if you have some more time, how about this one:

I Kings 16:34

More human sacrifice ordered by the lord.

If you read the warning that Joshua made in Joshua 6:26, you see that Jericho was not to be rebuilt after God gave Israel the victory over that city. Joshua clearly tells the few people who were spared to not rebuild the city after it was destroyed, and what would happen to anyone who rebuilt it. But now in I Kings 29-34, Ahab is ruling over Israel, and worshiping Baal, and 'doing more to provoke the Lord, the God of Israel, to anger than all the kings of Israel who were before him'. Yup, we see God getting really angry again because of someone running after false gods! Under Ahab's rule, Hiel of Bethel did EXACTLY what Joshua said not to do, with the results exactly as forewarned by Joshua. Sorry, I don't see how this makes God a murderer or crazy or whatever you wish to call Him. These people had fair warning. If God says don't do something, and then you say "I'll do it if I want to", then you gets what you gets, especially when He tells you what the consequences will be!

I really liked your post here, I notice you haven't been around ats a long time but I certainly look forward to reading more of your replies.