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Why I struggle with the bible

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posted on Jul, 14 2009 @ 05:54 PM
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the Christian church claim the bible is the inerrant
word of god and therfore contains no mistakes in translation.


Maybe they're wrong?



Why if you are trying to lead people to salvation would you choose to talk in parables which you know few will understand


How else could these things be explained? What point of reference do humans here on earth have for matters of spirit? If you've lived your entire life here on a physical planet in a physical body dealing with physical matters, how can I explain purely NON-physical ideas to you in a way that you'll understand except through metaphor?



why would an omnipotent being be scared of anything


That is an EXCELLENT question.

Now, will you accept the answers provided for you by others, or will you reason it out and come to your own conclusions?




posted on Jul, 14 2009 @ 05:55 PM
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reply to post by johnb
 

If you're interested in taking a look at other problems with the Bible, check out the Skeptic's Annotated version (skepticsannotatedbible.com...). There are inconsistencies and problems like the ones you mention on pretty much every page of the bible.

My advice, honestly, is to stop bothering. There aren't explanations for these things, except that the Bible was clearly written by Bronze Age men who had no real understanding of the way the world works.



posted on Jul, 14 2009 @ 06:02 PM
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Mankind is who created 'religion' - not God. Everytime man gets a wild hair up his exhaust pipe, he writes another "bible". People don't like to be told they can or can't do something - they don't like to be told they will be held accountable for their actions and decisions.

Hence, all the different "versions" of the true scriptures on the book shelves.

Trust me, satan is behind the deception - just as the Bible predicts he will be. You can choose to fall for it, or not.

Again - your choice.

No pressure - it's only your eternal salvation you are toying with.




posted on Jul, 14 2009 @ 06:11 PM
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I will run through the first few parts of Genesis. So just ask a question if I don't answer it.

reply to post by johnb
 


Genesis





1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.


Right off of the bat: the Heavens and The Earth are created. But why Heavens (plural), instead of Heaven (Singular)? Its a legitimate question. The Answer is actually in the the New Testament:

1. The first heaven is the atmospheric heaven, where the birds fly. (Revelation 19:17)
2. The second heaven is the starry heaven, containing the sun, moon, and planets etc. (Revelation 6:13)
3. The third heaven is the dwelling-place of God. (Matthew 6:9)

And the earth was created at the same time as the heavens! Very important that both are mentioned at the SAME time of their creation!



2 Now the earth was [a] formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.


Now the most legimate question here is: Where the hell did the water come from? If he had just created earth, then surely the water would not be there. But on a closer examination we can see that the deep also means: Water. Hence a conclusion can be made stating that water was created when the earth was made.



3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.


The above is pretty simple to grasp. God had just finished the first day. He created: Light and Darkness.



6 And God said, "Let there be an expanse between the waters to separate water from water." 7 So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the expanse "sky." And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.


Now this is highly important. An expanse was made to seperate the waters, but not just water on the earth, but ABOVE the earth. Then God called the expanse "SKY". So now we not only have a sky, but we have water on earth and IN the Sky. With all of this the second day was completed.



9 And God said, "Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear." And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground "land," and the gathered waters he called "seas." And God saw that it was good.


Now again as we can see, its pretty simple to understand: Land was created.



11 Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.


Now the land has vegeation, seed bearing plants and trees. But a very important statement is made: according to their various kinds. Something that we see today: Even if you believe in Evolution or Creation, there are limits with each and in those limits create animals and trees that correspond with their kind. It does not matter which one you believe, because in reality they are a lot similar than what most people think or consider. And now the third day has ended...



14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth." And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.


And this is a very busy area of Genesis, if you do not read carefully, you will get left behind fast...

God created "lights" now these lights are the stars mentioned later (Because of the light"s" there are more than one star"s"). Or these lights are just the different rays of the SKY, not the sun or anything, just the sky. The only reason its hard to figure out is because it only states: "let them be lights in the expanse of the sky to give light to earth.' It does not say to give light to earth at NIGHT or to give light to earth in the DAY. Its unknown, but both possibilies fit in quite well.

Now again God is creating MORE light, one for the night and one for the day. This is clear. Now as you can see stars are quickly mentioned without any explaination, which is why I consider the above to be about stars (The many Lights in the beginning of the verse).

Well, God has just transposed the sun in the sky and now it serves as a maker for day and night.

But wait there is much more... A clue as to what the earth is shaped like:

"And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day."

There was evening and there was morning. Say what? You don't see it? I will show you:

If the author wanted to convey a flat earth then why not just state:

"And there was evening and THEN there was morning. He makes an effort to show that when their is evening there is ALSO morning.



20 And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky." 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth." 23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.


Birds and Water creatures (fish) were created. But then again their it is: According to their kinds. God blessed the animals and sent them off to multiple. The fifth day is complete.



24 And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.


Again emphaize on THERE kinds. It can be a dog to a whale according to evolution, but none the less they ARE the same kind, they carry the same Genotype for evolution to have occured. And Creation, the animals could have multiplied and produced all sorts of dogs and what not. Both COULD be correct...



26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."


Let us make man in our image. Since this is very complicated:

Let us create man in OUR IMAGE and our likeness. Its explained, further on in the bible. But right now I will explain it. As we all know their are three sides to God, also known as the Holy Trinity: The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit all in one Mind. God could have been talking to himself, due to there really being 3 individuals in one ., but all the individuals have all the same moral character and thought processes.

Or

The word God in Hebrew, Elohim, is gramatically plural (the -im ending is a plural ending in Hebrew). Therefore, the verb "make" and the possessive pronoun would also have to appear in the plural, hence "let US make" instead of "let me make" and "our image" instead of "my image." Modern translations of the Bible keep this, even though it initially seems awkward in English.

Its one of the two, not sure which one....



27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.


Now everything is explained: man was created in Gods OWN Image. In the Image of God he was created. Then it states that MALE and FEMALE he created them, but here's what is important, he doesn't describe HOW he made them....keep that in mind for the future.



28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."


Thats pretty simple to understand, God gave Adam and Eve (or Lilith if you believe the Gnostic Gospels, but that is another thread entirely..lol), anyway.. God gave Adam and Eve supeior power over all creatures and God commanded them to multiple.



29 Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food." And it was so.


Again, reinforcing MANS authoirty over the animals and plants.



31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.


And now comes the conclusion of the Sixth day.



posted on Jul, 14 2009 @ 06:16 PM
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Chapter 2



1 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.


Easily understandable.



2 By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested [a] from all his work. 3 And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.


God rested on the seventh day and made that day his holy day.



4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created.
When the LORD God made the earth and the heavens- 5 and no shrub of the field had yet appeared on the earth and no plant of the field had yet sprung up, for the LORD God had not sent rain on the earth [c] and there was no man to work the ground, 6 but streams [d] came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground- 7 the LORD God formed the man [e] from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.


Pay attention people this can get extremely confusing, but it should be easy to comprehend....hopefully.... It states explicity that this is WHEN the Heavens and the earth were created. If you go a. and proceed to read the passages further you see one common element (word): Field.

Now the Field is the Garden. The Garden is Barren it does not have vegetation YET. The Lord God formed the man from the dust of the ground! Now remember the location. MAN was created in the Garden, not anywhere else on on the earth. remember that.



8 Now the LORD God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed. 9 And the LORD God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground—trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.


Now the Field is actually molded into the Garden, remember that field would eventually become the Garden and now it is. In the EAST of Eden, that is important, if you do not take the bible literally, it is HIGHLY Important. East of Eden, if I remember correctly East means Perfection. So Perfection would then be that Eden was a place of Paradise and nothing more. However, to take the bible literally, would to mean that their really was a Garden of Eden in the east, which To ME makes more sense. Then God created the trees in the garden. And in the middle of the Garden a tree of knowledge known as the tree of good and evil.



10 A river watering the garden flowed from Eden; from there it was separated into four .waters. 11 The name of the first is the Pishon; it winds through the entire land of Havilah, where there is gold. 12 (The gold of that land is good; aromatic resin [f] and onyx are also there.) 13 The name of the second river is the Gihon; it winds through the entire land of Cush. [g] 14 The name of the third river is the Tigris; it runs along the east side of Asshur. And the fourth river is the Euphrates.


Basically, its telling us the location of the rivers and the geological area of Eden.



15 The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."


Now you maybe confused. If man was made in the Garden, why would he be placed in the Garden? Its a good question: Adam was already in the Garden, but God placed him in his prescence (Like bring your child infront of to have a serious talk), because God began to command Adam. He tells him not to eat from the tree of good and evil because you will surely die. But "die" not in the physical sense, but the spiritual sense.



18 The LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him."


easy to understand.



19 Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the beasts of the field and all the birds of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds of the air and all the beasts of the field.
But for Adam [h] no suitable helper was found. 21 So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man's ribs and closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib [j] he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.


Now you maybe like, but God had already created the animals, but yet again remember that they are being created of the FIELD (Garden), not the earth. And God made the birds of the field.

God put Adam into a deep sleep and took out one of his ribs and created the woman from it. This makes complete sense, in explaining how man and woman became to be. Instead of saying man and woman are HERE: BOOM.


The periosteum contains cells that can manufacture new bone. Particularly in young people, 'rib periosteum has a remarkable ability to regenerate bone, perhaps more so than any other bone'.


Ribs can regrow

Ribs regrow

You may have wondered why I posted the links above. Its quite simple, many people ask the question if Adams rib was removed then why do his descendants (men) have their right rib? Its simple, the rib can grow back and not only that: But The rib could have also been their because it was in Adams DNA. God only removed the rib, God did not alter his DNA to carry the rib.




23 The man said,
"This is now bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called 'woman, [j] '
for she was taken out of man."


Thats pretty easy to understand.



24 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.


This represents the first "Marriage" and the meaning of Marriage. To become one flesh, not only in the physical sense, but in the spiritual sense.



25 The man and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame.


This is a slap in the face to Jews, who thought and some still do think that being nude is a sign of impurity. But God states that it is not, for they felt no shame. That is like saying *bleep* you Jews. If you think the bible was written as an allegory or book of just wise texts. Not trying to be funny, but that’s what it means.

If you think in the literal sense. This means what it says: They were naked (pure) from the beginning in which no one should have shame.

Genesis 3



1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?"


Before i explain the above we must know this first. Angels were either created after the garden or they were created before. I think it makes more sense that they were created after. Also this is a good amount of time after the creation of the Garden. It has been speculated to be anywhere from 10 years to 130 years. No one really knows.

Anyway, the serpent is Lucifer or the devil which ever one you fancy. The first thing the devil asks is a psychologically based question to create doubt. Many Hostage Negotiators use this tactic to create doubt in the hostiles mind. For instance they will say: Do you really want to kill all of these people? something along those lines.



2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' "


But Eve is a lot smarter than what the Serpent thought, she counters with a great quote from God himself. Now we either have two options give up or find what she is afraid of and act upon that. Now read the above verses and find what Eve is afraid of.

Did you find it? If not here is your answer: She is afraid to "die".

The devil tees off on that and uses that to his advantage.



4 "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. 5 "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."


For you will not surely die. You see? The Devil adds his thoughts to Eve's mind. Allowing Eve to feel secure, but now she is vulnerable to the Satans silver tongue. And in order to sweeten the lie the Devil adds : your eyes will be opened, you will be like God, knowing good and evil. Eve doesn't know what this is, this good and evil, she only knows what she feels. As with all humans: curiousity is sparked and the devils seed has been planted. And now Eve has Fallen, before she has taken the fruit.



posted on Jul, 14 2009 @ 06:19 PM
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6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.


Now you may ask where did Adam come from? Adam probably walked up to her when she saw her near the tree or Eve walked to him.
Now they realize that they are naked! So they sow Fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves. Now if you take the bible literally, what is said is true. But if you do not view the bible as literal, you see this:

Fig leaves and Nudity.

Adam and Eve realized! Or they realized that they were impure before and for their punishment sowed fig leaves together, now fig leaves are very sharp and they hurt a LOT. But this is an allegory for humanity, especially for Jews who believe that Nudity is bad. Again this is a *Bleep* you Jews moment. Why? Because Nudity is not cool in the Jewish religion (long ago) and for Adam and Eve's direct disobendience they are punished with the knowledge that they are nude. (Did I make that clear?). Since the Jews think that Nudity is bad, that means that they are not pure because they think its bad. (I hope I explained that easily enough)....



8 Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the LORD God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the LORD God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the LORD God called to the man, "Where are you?"


Many people who believe that God is not omnipotent reference this quote: 'Where are you?" God knew where they were at and what they did, if not why would he have called at that time? He wanted to see them step up and be like: we are here and we have done wrong. But they hesitate.

If you view this as a none literal sense: This is meant to show that hey, no matter what you do. Someone is always watching.



10 He answered, "I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid."


Easy to understand.



11 And he said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?"


God wants the truth!



12 The man said, "The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it."


The Woman that YOU put here with me. Adam tries to throw the blame on God and then he also blames the woman for his misconduct. But Eve is different:



13 Then the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this you have done?"
The woman said, "The serpent deceived me, and I ate."


The woman tells the truth! Why is this significant? Two reasons it shows that Adam was not tempted by Satan and therefore, not near the tree when Eve took the bite and also because the Woman stands higher than the Man.



14 So the LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this,
"Cursed are you above all the livestock
and all the wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly
and you will eat dust
all the days of your life.


Thats easy to understand.



15 And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring [a] and hers;
he will crush your .,
and you will strike his heel."


Again easy to understand.



16 To the woman he said,
"I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing;
with pain you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you."


God gives Eve the worst of the punishment, by increasing Child birth and making her desire for her husband only. And the husband will be the . of the house (Which most of the time, even today, its like that Example: The Man of the House..lol) But I did hear from somewhere that that verse was added in later, but again I have no proof. If you do not take this in the literal sense then its just reminecent of the times of when the bible was written.



17 To Adam he said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, 'You must not eat of it,'
"Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat of it
all the days of your life.


Adam is punished by having to WORK for the rest of his life for food.



18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field.


Easy as well. It will be a difficult life. But again field is mentioned, why? Because now instead of having the food ready, he will eat directly from the ground in impurity and what not.



19 By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return."


God mentions that once and for all that Man was created from the earth and since you were created of the earth your physical body will turn to Ash and return to it. But nowhere did God mention the soul. Why? Because Jesus is not there yet.



20 Adam [c] named his wife Eve, [d] because she would become the mother of all the living.


Easy To understand.



21 The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. 22 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." 23 So the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side [e] of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.


Like one of us? Why? Because God is talking to himself with the trinity. And God placed a flaming sword to guard the tree of life to prevent its fruit from granting eternal life to the man and women. If you take the bible literally there really was a sword. BUT also it could also be a ring of fire.

If you do not take it literally, its to show that life is not eternal and we better live right.

Genesis 4



1 Adam [a] lay with his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain. She said, "With the help of the LORD I have brought forth [c] a man." 2 Later she gave birth to his brother Abel.
Now Abel kept flocks, and Cain worked the soil. 3 In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the LORD. 4 But Abel brought fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The LORD looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5 but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast.


Why would God take "favor"? Because Abels offering came from the heart and cains offering came from pride. to be the BEST, to give the best, not from the heart. This answer, from wiki answers explains a lot better than I can do.


The Christian God does not look at an offering or sacrifice in the same way the historical and pagan God's before him did. What is physically manifest in the offering is of little or no importance to God. God penetrates through that and gazes at the heart of a man to see if the sacrifice comes from a pure and faithful place. Abel genuinely believed in God, his wisdom, and desired a strong relationship with him where as Cain did not, so consequently God rejected Cain's offering. It had nothing to do with what the offerings actually were. An offering can be as small as a prayer, and as long as it is comes from someone who is right in their relationship with God, it will be accepted by him. The following quotations may clarify this point for you. They are stated by King David in Psalm 51:16 & 17:

16 For You do not delight in sacrifice, otherwise I would give it;

You are not pleased with burnt offering.
17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit;

A broken and a contrite heart, O God, You will not despise.


Wiki Answers awesome Answer



6 Then the LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? 7 If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must master it."


God already knows what Caine will do, but tries to intervene, sin is close approaching; you must master your anger/jealosuy.



8 Now Cain said to his brother Abel, "Let's go out to the field." [d] And while they were in the field, Cain attacked his brother Abel and killed him.


Cain killed him. The first murder....



9 Then the LORD said to Cain, "Where is your brother Abel?"
"I don't know," he replied. "Am I my brother's keeper?"


God already knows what has happened, he asked Cain where is able? He wants Cain to tell the TRUTH! Cain gets smart and says I do not know am I my brothers keeper?



10 The LORD said, "What have you done? Listen! Your brother's blood cries out to me from the ground. 11 Now you are under a curse and driven from the ground, which opened its mouth to receive your brother's blood from your hand. 12 When you work the ground, it will no longer yield its crops for you. You will be a restless wanderer on the earth."


Thats easy to comprehend.



posted on Jul, 14 2009 @ 06:21 PM
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13 Cain said to the LORD, "My punishment is more than I can bear. 14 Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me."


Cain begins to have regrets, but its over.



15 But the LORD said to him, "Not so [e] ; if anyone kills Cain, he will suffer vengeance seven times over." Then the LORD put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him. 16 So Cain went out from the LORD's presence and lived in the land of Nod, [f] east of Eden.


Cain is MARKED. Now you maybe asking who would kill Cain if he and his brother are the only brothers? And now its just Cain. Its simple, chances are Adam and Eve had more children before them (Before Abel and Caine), Abel and caine are focused on because they both are necessary for the first murder to happen. Land of Nod will be refereced later.



17 Cain lay with his wife, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Enoch. Cain was then building a city, and he named it after his son Enoch. 18 To Enoch was born Irad, and Irad was the father of Mehujael, and Mehujael was the father of Methushael, and Methushael was the father of Lamech.


Now where did Caines wife come from? Chances are it was one of his sisters or cousins. Remember we do not know the time the only time we know of is 9 months for pregnancy about 20 years for both to become grown men. But before that there were other children and those children had other children and so forth. Also genetics come into the equations. Which will be explained.

Say this equation:

1 X 1= 1
Now we have Adam and Eve= Eve gives birth lets say 20 times. That is 20 replications of the first humans. The sequence will be 1 X 1 for each chromosome. A pure geno type. However, through more and more breeding the sequence of what was once 1 X 1 now becomes 1 X 2= 2 and so forth. Leading to further mutation and virus's and many other factors. How does it become 1 X 2 enough genetic breeding or inbreeding (which we still do today) we are all related one way or another (even if you believe in Creation or Evolution, there's no escaping..lol, our history is in our DNA). Eventually 1 X 2 will come in due to a genetic mutation, eventually the Chromosomes will meet the same chormosmes (or some sort of same gene) and then BOOM! Mutation.



19 Lamech married two women, one named Adah and the other Zillah. 20 Adah gave birth to Jabal; he was the father of those who live in tents and raise livestock. 21 His brother's name was Jubal; he was the father of all who play the harp and flute. 22 Zillah also had a son, Tubal-Cain, who forged all kinds of tools out of [g] bronze and iron. Tubal-Cain's sister was Naamah.


And now we are seeing all these people growing and reproducing. To create the population of that time, but this is the civilization of Cain! We have left the civilization of Adam and Eve but we will get back to them soon.



23 Lamech said to his wives,
"Adah and Zillah, listen to me;
wives of Lamech, hear my words.
I have killed [h] a man for wounding me,
a young man for injuring me.


Lets catch up:

Verse 16 in chapter FOUR of Genesis, remember I said I would reference this later and here we go:
. 16 So Cain went out from the LORD's presence and lived in the land of Nod, [f] east of Eden.

Look with me at Genesis 4:16: Then Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and settled in the land of Nod, east of Eden. Cain had relations with his wife and she conceived, and gave birth to Enoch; and he built a city, and called the name of the city Enoch, after the name of his son.

In judgment God sends Cain out to wander the earth - restless - no permanent home. In defiance of God - Cain settles down and begins a city that he names after his first born son, Enoch.

Verse 18: Now to Enoch was born Irad, and Irad became the father of Mehujael, and Mehujael became the father of Methushael, and Methushael became the father of Lamech - Cain’s great-great-great-grandson.

Jubal was a musician. In the city of Enoch he was the artist - the creator of beauty and inspiring music.

Tubal-cain was the technological genius - the scientist. A metallurgist who forged tools of bronze and iron - harnessing nature to improve people’s lives.

But Cain has a serious problem. He is continously haunted by him murdering his brother and he takes great shame in it. However, in Cains society, his civilization. There is a giant problem: Murder is worth bragging about...

But, while Cain succumbed to sin Lamech exalted in it. Lamech killed people - in cruel cold blooded vengeance - and he bragged about it. He was proud of it. He even wrote songs and poetry about it that perhaps his son Jubal would perform in the city. What kind of evil is in the heart of a man who would kill a child and brag about it?

Lamech killed a young man and shines in it.



24 If Cain is avenged seven times,
then Lamech seventy-seven times."


This means that Caine is truely sorry for what he has done, but Lamech is not hence the larger number.



25 Adam lay with his wife again, and she gave birth to a son and named him Seth, saying, "God has granted me another child in place of Abel, since Cain killed him." 26 Seth also had a son, and he named him Enosh.


This shows that Eve and Adam grieved before having another son. Then Seth has a Son, probably around 18 years later.

But a great and important thing happens here. Two lines of descendants- Cains and Seth. Seth will lead the road to SALVATION. Seth walked in the steps of his brother Abel. To Seth is born Enosh. In chapter five the genealogy is continued. It includes men such as Enoch - the man who walked with God. (5:24) And, Noah - who, as a righteous and blameless man, found favor in God’s sight. (6:8-22) God chose Noah to preserve the Godly line of Adam - through which has come Jesus our Savior.

Genesis 5



1 This is the written account of Adam's line.
When God created man, he made him in the likeness of God. 2 He created them male and female and blessed them. And when they were created, he called them "man. [a] "


Simple to understand, just reaffirming that God created Man in his image.



3 When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image; and he named him Seth. 4 After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters. 5 Altogether, Adam lived 930 years, and then he died.


Adams age is revealed when he is dead.



6 When Seth had lived 105 years, he became the father of Enosh. 7 And after he became the father of Enosh, Seth lived 807 years and had other sons and daughters. 8 Altogether, Seth lived 912 years, and then he died.


More ages and decendents.



9 When Enosh had lived 90 years, he became the father of Kenan. 10 And after he became the father of Kenan, Enosh lived 815 years and had other sons and daughters. 11 Altogether, Enosh lived 905 years, and then he died.


More ages.



12 When Kenan had lived 70 years, he became the father of Mahalalel. 13 And after he became the father of Mahalalel, Kenan lived 840 years and had other sons and daughters. 14 Altogether, Kenan lived 910 years, and then he died. 15 When Mahalalel had lived 65 years, he became the father of Jared. 16 And after he became the father of Jared, Mahalalel lived 830 years and had other sons and daughters. 17 Altogether, Mahalalel lived 895 years, and then he died.

18 When Jared had lived 162 years, he became the father of Enoch. 19 And after he became the father of Enoch, Jared lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters. 20 Altogether, Jared lived 962 years, and then he died.

21 When Enoch had lived 65 years, he became the father of Methuselah. 22 And after he became the father of Methuselah, Enoch walked with God 300 years and had other sons and daughters. 23 Altogether, Enoch lived 365 years. 24 Enoch walked with God; then he was no more, because God took him away.

25 When Methuselah had lived 187 years, he became the father of Lamech. 26 And after he became the father of Lamech, Methuselah lived 782 years and had other sons and daughters. 27 Altogether, Methuselah lived 969 years, and then he died.

28 When Lamech had lived 182 years, he had a son. 29 He named him Noah [c] and said, "He will comfort us in the labor and painful toil of our hands caused by the ground the LORD has cursed." 30 After Noah was born, Lamech lived 595 years and had other sons and daughters. 31 Altogether, Lamech lived 777 years, and then he died.

32 After Noah was 500 years old, he became the father of Shem, Ham and Japheth.


Confused huh?..lol.. "But TheMythLives you said that Noah was from the lineage of Cain, you dumb *bleep*. Calm down I will explain:

Noah was a descendant of Seth. After Cain murdered his brother Abel, God banished him to the land of Fugitiveness. Seth fathered E'nosh. E'nosh fathered Ke'nan. Ke'nan fathered Mahalalel. Mahalalel fathered Jared. Jared fathered E'noch. E'noch fathered Methuselah. Methuselah fathered La'mech. And La'mech fathered Noah. Genesis Chapters 4 and 5.

It is interesting to see that Cain named his first son E'noch, although this is not the same E'noch who was Noah's great-grandfather. Also, the name La'mech shows up in Cain's lineage as well.

________________________________________________

I think thats enough for now. Wow I really know a little too much about religions...
Thats what happens when you cannot forget what you hear. I hope I explained somethings according to genesis. Let me know if you need more clarification.

[edit on Jul 14th 2009 by TheMythLives]



posted on Jul, 14 2009 @ 06:23 PM
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A lot the original manuscripts of the books that make up the Bible are lost permanently. The ones that are not lost are pretty confusing to read. As such, no translation of the Bible is accurate. The King James Bible comes sorta close, but if you translate it yourself you will see inaccuracies, as well as archaic word usage. The KJB is more of a quick reference for people who have already translated the passages on their own.

The "new" translations all seem to be politically-motivated and are not worthy of serious study.

Barring that, you should not take the Bible literally. It is full of seemingly irrelevant details and contradicts itself at times. It describes "men" like Solomon, Moses and Jesus as if they actually existed, when in fact they are merely symbolic personifications.



posted on Jul, 14 2009 @ 06:39 PM
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Originally posted by johnb

Genesis 1 v1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light,"...
5 God called the light "day" and the darkness he called "night"
......
11 Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation...and it was so....
14 And God said, "Let ther be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night,..
16 God made two great lights - the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars.

Ok so he made light on the first day but not the sun or any of the other stars till the fourth day, so where does this light come from as all light now comes from our nearest star, our sun. Also he makes plants alive before he makes our sun, this would imply that plants didn't originally use photosynthesis to grow as there was no sunlight just this mysterious "light" which must have disappeared on the creation of the stars as we have no other light source now but no mention of this replacement is made.


It's not a story about outerspace, it's about mankind. Try that perspective.

Pre-Day: Hovering or Making Love
Day1: Insemination and cell division
Day2: Placenta
Day3: Tissue/Organs
Day4: Sensory and Vision
Day5: Emmune system
Day6: Birth
Day7: Death

You want to get prepared for a new week by doing that Pre Day thing again... by around day 3 and no later then day 5 otherwise you will see day 8 and that one never ends.

You'll always be sure to see a new week that way.



Gen 1 v26
Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness,

'our' image, surely if their is only one God they would say in 'my' image not 'our' this implies there was more than one being involved. Yes you will say the angels but there is no mention of them being created so where did they come from?

v27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

So in his own image now singular or does it mean his image rather than anothers?


Ask your body to have a talk with all the cells in your body who each perform different functions prospectively. Have them do a question and answer of your dna. Here is the question..."Who does number 2 work for?"
Maybe reevaluate, "Love one another as I love you, Do unto one another that which you would have done unto you" When you look at someone else, see yourself. They just might be you after all.



Gen 2 v18 The Lord God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him."....
v22 Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man..

Two things here God had already created woman on the 6th day had he not see v27 and secondly he creates the whole universe out of nothing but takes one of Adam's ribs to make woman - why would he do that when he just created everything else from nothing?


Adam isn't a guy, he is mankind...male and female. It wasn't a rib that Good took while mankind was sleeping. In hebrew it says, "angular organ"....Adam had a "wet" dream.

All of the bible is complete by the end of Genesis 1:. The rest unfolds under it simultaneously. Study what the names of things mean and it will make a lot more sense.

Also, it didn't say nothing existed, but that he was hovering over the face of the deep, as in, Ignorant or didn't recognize him.


Gen3 v1
Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the other wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?......

Ok so serpents could talk back then too could they? There is no mention of God removing the power of speech from the serpent only that he would put emnity between human and serpent.
Also as a punishment for this he v16 'increase the pain of childbirth' and causes man to have v17 'painful toil' to grow food. That really sounds loving doesn't it?


What exactly do you think Chrissssssssstians believe? Is it not that, being saved, they shall garner eternal life in Jesssssssssssus.....Isn't it that ALL things shall be revealed? That they shall be as Angels? "You worship what you do not know" says Jesus, so worship what you KNOW. Some of the things you know can hurt you, thus even bad things are true, the only falsity is believing that because it's true it won't hurt you. Be wise....We are Just as a body, but not as men.

Think of what God is saying in truth and trust what you learn from truth only.
Truth is what you know is true, like "I have a mother and a father", or "I like ice cream". You need no one else to tell you what truth is and once you see it plainly in the small things, everything else will become appearant.



v22 And the Lord God said,"The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live for ever."
Again the plural like one of 'us'also if we are supposed to have free will surely we need knowledge to make a choice or we are just automatons. Also this would imply that we should have had eternal life as we were allowed to eat from all trees but the tree of knowledge, lucky for God, Adam had not already tasted it eh? but then I guess he would have removed the priviledge of eternal life as he is omnipotent - but hang on why does he remove Adam then from the garden so can't eat from it, what is God scared of?


Eden means "time of pleasure". Again, all of creation and every Generation of man is complete by ending of Gen 1. To an ant that will live for a few days, my lifespan is 100's of thousands of lives to an ant. The only just measure and weight is in Ratio, not in static increments...they are dead.
Only something cyclical can fully know itself, and to give something cyclical depth, you must stretch it long. One plane 4 dimensions. Scared of nothing...this "Mary" go round has been round before, and will again.



Gen4
Cane and Abel - God looks with disfavour on Cain because he did not kill some animals to offer a sacrifice but instead offered the fruit of his toils through the soil.
So Abel is rewarded for killing some animals he had done little with but Cain who has done the 'painful toil' ascribed by God in Gen 3 v17 is not.
Again how is this showing an all loving God Cain follows instructions given to Adam and Abel doesn't but he is the one looked on with favour.


Cain, servent of the ground, is familiar to you, but you don't see it yet. You know of Baal, you know of Cain, now you know BAAL CAIN....OH.....Volcaino who glows hot against his brother "Arrogent" who is Able.
Able took from the choice of his flock, mainly the females and offered them to God. There was no killing until Cain blew his top...pun intended.
Again, in truth God accepted Able's gift because females can regenerate. Knowledge, the fruit of the ground will always be overlooked for life. Life is imperative to existence. I will tell you though that the mark of Cain is the Cross, like x marks the spot. The capstone to the BaalCain. You need one that is solid...Lava is the earths blood, don't want another arterial rupture...it's not pretty.


In the New Testament, Matthew 5 v38 "You have heard that it was said, "Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth. v39 "But i tell you, Do not..."
Matthew 24 v34 I Tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.
He has just been talking about the end of the age - sun darkening, no light from the moon and stars falling from the sky.
Ok se he said this 2000 years ago and there is no history of this happening so it could not be the truth unless of course that generation is still alive today but their deaths are chronicled in the bible so they are dead and it did not happen in that generation.

v36" No-one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

Hang on a minute you just said it would happen in that generation! Also if God, Jesus and the holy spirit are one then surely he would know.

I could go on and on but that will do for starters anyway, I would like reasoned answers to these inconsistencies please and PLEASE try to keep things pleasant I am seeking the way and knocking on the door so if you truly are a christian you are obliged by the bible and the word of God to help me not to flame me!
Keep that in mind if you reply, I would like a reasoned debate not a schoolyard argument.


"I tell you the truth, their are some standing here who shall not taste of death, till they SEE the kingdom in all it's power".

If one generation were meant to see it, then every eye could not see, or it is in truth, a generation of one, namely you or me, or the distance between parent and offspring. Every knee bows because death takes all, but not every one knows, except for the ones who must die, meaning end of their blood on the earth. Once you know, you have seen your own nakedness, to forget, you must die...sabbath........"How do you think we keep making everything new that has existed for eons?....we fore get...

Peace

Forgot to mention about Cain "spear" and Able "arrogent". It is rendered that they brought their offerings at "The end of days"...

Who can tell me what the lake of fire is? It's related to Cain....


[edit on 14-7-2009 by letthereaderunderstand]

[edit on 14-7-2009 by letthereaderunderstand]



posted on Jul, 14 2009 @ 07:09 PM
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Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
A lot the original manuscripts of the books that make up the Bible are lost permanently. The ones that are not lost are pretty confusing to read. As such, no translation of the Bible is accurate. The King James Bible comes sorta close, but if you translate it yourself you will see inaccuracies, as well as archaic word usage. The KJB is more of a quick reference for people who have already translated the passages on their own.

The "new" translations all seem to be politically-motivated and are not worthy of serious study.

Barring that, you should not take the Bible literally. It is full of seemingly irrelevant details and contradicts itself at times. It describes "men" like Solomon, Moses and Jesus as if they actually existed, when in fact they are merely symbolic personifications.


Try this out...ISA Analyzer



posted on Jul, 14 2009 @ 07:46 PM
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reply to post by TheMythLives
 


Names in the bible are very special, though no one knows just how special they are.

Every name in the bible carries with it vital information, that unless disclosed to the reader they will not understand the passage.

It is "in my name", Jesus says that people are saved, by their own faith. Now, Jesus isn't a "get out of jail free" card, it is 4 letters and 5 characters. To say it doesn't make boogy men flee nor cast out any demons, raise dead things, or give someone powers other then what their own faith generates.

What does save is what the name means, because it is a statement that is accomplished and proven. A cognitive of Yahweh "Self existent" and Yasha
"salvation"...to say it in truth is to do it "Self existent salvation".

This is what you are saved in in total truth. You are saved in Action, not observation. Insert the true name of the savior into your bibles and reread remembering....he is the light of all men. You put a light on a stand to give light to the whole house....

In truth, who is the Son of man? Remembering God is not a god of confusion. Life goes forward in the son of man, just as it says. God is totally Procreation....He loved the world so much....he ravaged her....just like he said he would...."A new generation shall proclaim of his awesomeness"....forever.

This is why forfeiting your pleasures for bearing the son of man is treasure in heaven which is hear and now and always will be. Offspring dwell in the house forever, but hired help ends the blood line.

What cross is self existent salvation on? Cross of time or is it the image fooling everyone on the wooden cross. Which is real, and which is fake? Simple choice but many will hesitate. Hard to let go of the crucifix...and they are screaming..."his blood be on us and on our children"

We are the chief builders folks, don't reject the true cornerstone, we are the sons, the ones building on the house. Unending or Recurring? Unending has no end, Recurring has no end...only get one

Know yourself or NO yourself....be sure that if you want to Know yourself, you will have no body, if you no yourself...you will have everybody

We like it fair and square....foundations r us.



posted on Jul, 14 2009 @ 08:35 PM
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Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand

Try this out...ISA Analyzer


That's quite useful. Thanks for the link!



posted on Jul, 14 2009 @ 09:09 PM
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reply to post by nomorecruelty
 


How is this going to help him?

The King James version, isn't that the version that was a rewrite by King James because he didn't like the first cut?



posted on Jul, 14 2009 @ 09:36 PM
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I have a 1611 Apocrypha here as well - and a 1972 written children's Bible for when I get stuck.



I have always read the KJ - it is the Bible my grandmother used, and her mother, and her mother and so forth.

It is, for me, the original and the authorized. You can read THIS and see why I won't touch any of the other 'versions'.

Mankind has put his dirty hands on them and mucked them up.




posted on Jul, 14 2009 @ 09:39 PM
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For any interested, here's a LIST of all of the errors in the KJ Bible.



I couldn't resist.




posted on Jul, 14 2009 @ 09:44 PM
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I too struggle with much of the Bible. I in no way would ever show disrespect to the Bible but much of it just gives me more questions. I think if people would think rationally about it when they read it they will see that much has been taken out and whats left doesn't add up. I think alot of the Bible was changed to control people and make them have fear of God so they would go to church and give the church money.
Also, much of the Bible was written some 200 years after Christ. We have all played the game in primary school when you tell a secret and by the time it gets to the last person it is totally different from the original version. Same goes for some of the books of the Bible. Much is written by hearsay! Who was King James in the first place???



posted on Jul, 14 2009 @ 09:45 PM
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On a serious note, THIS page explains, in detail, just how people have reworded the King James - since it was published - to suit the satanic agenda. And I am guessing, given the statement from one of the people that mucked it up, they weren't even aware they were doing it until later.

An interesting read nonetheless.



posted on Jul, 14 2009 @ 09:51 PM
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reply to post by Starseed32
 


THIS explains his bio - with other links included if you care to read further.

Hope it helps -



posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 01:01 AM
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Originally posted by johnb
reply to post by Amagnon
 


Are you referring to Zecharia Sitchin and the Anunnaki Enki and Enlil and Nibiru or another translation by someone else.


Yeah - This is what I was referring to. I suggest the OP look on the net and review all this material. It gives a very nice explanation of Genesis that makes a lot of sense.

The story of Genesis according to Zecharia Sitchin - is of a group of aliens who land and genetically modify some primates to increase intelligence and usefulness to them as slaves.

Humans already exist, but they take a couple and modify them, Adam and Eve - if you read the first part of Genesis you will see that it makes sense of an otherwise confused story.



posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 08:20 AM
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Originally posted by johnb
reply to post by WickettheRabbit
 


Thanks for the reply.

However God did seem to be afraid of Adam eating the fruit that would give him eteranl life or why would he eject him and bar the way with 'cherubim and a flaming swordsword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life' Also as he is all powerful would it not just have been easier to remove the tree?

Yes many people say that the talking serpent was satan but it does not say that in the bible as far as I can see.


Hi John. Let me answer these, if I can.

Adam wasn't told to not eat the Tree of Life. He was told not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

www.biblegateway.com...

There is a big difference. The Tree of Life, either symbolic or true, was the eternal life provided by God for Adam, Eve and all of humanity. When Adam and Eve fell by eating the Knowledge of Good and Evil fruit, they were removed from Eden, lost their eternal life, and had to work and suffer for the remainder of their lives.

The reason he didn't remove the Tree of Life from Eden is because Adam and Eve were no longer allowed to live in Eden, so why remove the tree?

It's never stated that God removes Eden from the Earth.



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