Soldier balks at deploying ; say's Obama isn't president

How many wars would have happened if we actually made our leaders fight?

Just think.

Sorry, Nancy get your a## back in the ring, you should have trained harder.

Court Martialed and Dishonorably Discharged. That or follow orders to deploy.

I just don't see this turning out any other way.

What people are missing in this whole scenario is that even though our courts have illegally thrown case out of court for not having standing to sue, military personnel do have standing and for it to get to court it would be impossible to simply throw out these suits. Yes 'SUITS'. There are as many as one hundred other officers in all the services that have come to the conclusion that the only way to get to the absolute truth is to question the orders given by this administration. They have sworn an oath that they take very seriously and to act on what they consider any illegal order can and does violate international law. Should the court in The Haig decide to press charges against one of our service men on this point it could also cause trouble for the rest of the country!

ZIndo

Originally posted by Tank2/8
reply to post by STFUPPERCUTTER

 

we go around killing innocent people??!!

Not that there has not been civilian casualies, there is in any war. Do you have any idea the kind of people we are dealing with?! Do you have any idea what one of these "innocent" people would do to YOU if they had the chance?! [SNIP]



Mod Edit - Mod Note: General ATS Discussion Etiquette – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 15-7-2009 by elevatedone]

[snip]

The reason these people are fighting you guys is because you guys think you can do anything!

invading a country and destroying it!! Don't you think that makes people mad???? and for what ??? tell me for what??? a liee??? greed??? an agenda???

stop talking about war if you have no [snip] clue you [snip]. 655,000 Iraqi deaths and you prolly think that 10% was inoncent, well its way way more then that!!!!!!

[snip] you make me mad



Removed personal insults and profanity

[edit on 15/7/09 by masqua]

reply to post by ZindoDoone


I'm sorry but this is just a bunch of whiny military personnel who believe they can disobey orders because they don't like the Pres...

I say every single one of the men and women who are challenging this through the medium of "not deploying" should be thrown in the brig and court martialed!

Leavenworth is too good for them.

If they want to protest, fine, organize marches, 503's anything, but DO YOUR FRIGGIN JOB SOLDIER!

LEAD, FOLLOW, OR GET OUT OF THE WAY!!!!



[edit on 15-7-2009 by HunkaHunka]

Whiny soldiers? If the orders they are being asked to follow are illegal I would say it's valid to protect yourself from accusations of following those illegal orders by just making sure those orders are legal. I'm not against Obama, I just want to know if his orders are legal or not.

If all this can be settled by just providing a long form HI birth certificate instead of the short form, why wouldn't he just provide the long form?

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
Whiny soldiers? If the orders they are being asked to follow are illegal I would say it's valid to protect yourself from accusations of following those illegal orders by just making sure those orders are legal. I'm not against Obama, I just want to know if his orders are legal or not.

If all this can be settled by just providing a long form HI birth certificate instead of the short form, why wouldn't he just provide the long form?

They aren't questioning the legality of the orders, they are questioning the legality of the one giving those orders. That's a HUGE difference.

Those are two completely different things. And a Soldier has no right to question the legitimacy of the CO.

reply to post by HunkaHunka


By questioning the legality of the CO, you are also questioning the legality of the orders. If the boss is illegal, then anything he dictates is illegal as well. And yes, soldiers do have a right to question anything they please. The military doesn't control everything we do.

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
reply to post by ZindoDoone

 

I'm sorry but this is just a bunch of whiny military personnel who believe they can disobey orders because they don't like the Pres...

I say every single one of the men and women who are challenging this through the medium of "not deploying" should be thrown in the brig and court martialed!

Leavenworth is too good for them.

If they want to protest, fine, organize marches, 503's anything, but DO YOUR FRIGGIN JOB SOLDIER!

LEAD, FOLLOW, OR GET OUT OF THE WAY!!!!



[edit on 15-7-2009 by HunkaHunka]

Have you ever served? After reading your comments, I'm going to guess....no. Soldiers aren't freaking robots. We still have a mind to think for ourselves and make decisions. If any soldier feels something is unlawful then he/she has the right (and duty) to speak out against it. That is our "FRIGGIN JOB" as you would put it.

[edit on 15-7-2009 by RichieScott1]

Originally posted by RichieScott1
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

By questioning the legality of the CO, you are also questioning the legality of the orders. If the boss is illegal, then anything he dictates is illegal as well. And yes, soldiers do have a right to question anything they please. The military doesn't control everything we do.

That's pretty much the way I see it too, I don't see a "Big Difference" as Hunka put it between the two. I understand the difference, but if Obama is not legally the the commander in chief, he can't give legal orders.

Originally posted by RichieScott1

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
reply to post by ZindoDoone

 

I'm sorry but this is just a bunch of whiny military personnel who believe they can disobey orders because they don't like the Pres...

I say every single one of the men and women who are challenging this through the medium of "not deploying" should be thrown in the brig and court martialed!

Leavenworth is too good for them.

If they want to protest, fine, organize marches, 503's anything, but DO YOUR FRIGGIN JOB SOLDIER!

LEAD, FOLLOW, OR GET OUT OF THE WAY!!!!



[edit on 15-7-2009 by HunkaHunka]

Have you ever served? After reading your comments, I'm going to guess....no. Soldiers aren't freaking robots. We still have a mind to think for ourselves and make decisions. If any soldier feels something is unlawful then he/she has the right (and duty) to speak out against it. That is our "FRIGGIN JOB" as you would put it.

[edit on 15-7-2009 by RichieScott1]

Actually, yes I have served. I was in the Navy for 5 1/2 years of which most of that was spent at sea.

The legality of the orders are NOT based on the legality or legitimacy of the Commander in Chief. A Lawful order has nothing to do with the one who is giving the order.

As a veteran I see this behavior as reprehensible on the part of the major and as a sailor I see it as mutiny and would expect a full keelhauling.

If there are so many people that are questioning Obama's right's to be President. I do believe it has to be looked into and proved without a doubt that is who many say he is.

As far as war I do believe the American's spend more time trying NOT to harm innocent peoples then any other Country on the face of this Planet but war is war weather right or wrong.

I am tired of hearing about how our military kills innocent people when other Countries devote themselves to killing innocent people. Where is the uproar when they use women and children as human shields.

It is up to the people to stand together and stop all this but they don't, why?

I would love to see your reasoning behind that. If your boss isn't legal, how in the world can his orders be considered legal? If he is in office under false pretenses, then soldiers have a duty to call him out. If it is your advice to sit down and shut up, it sounds like you want a communist government.

So, just because he took the oath he's legit?

I don't ever recall a more dilligent effort to hide or conceal just about every record that might somehow shed some light on Obama's origins. This isn't just about his birth, there's more....much more.

Heck, even Helen Thomas stated the other day that she doesn't recall any other administration withholding information from the press as much as this administration. The secretiveness with which they operate ought to be a grave concern for all Americans.

This administration is working in conjuntion with the Congress to shove legislation through as fast as they can and nobody is reading this stuff. What's the rush? Now we have national health care about to become reality. The house and senate could give a crap less what concerned American's think because theyhave the votes. Republicans are going to be shut out on this one as well, watch.

If Obama is legit as a citizen, so be it. But, the ellusiveness and concerted effort to not produce the simplest document that any one of us would have to produce just to get a driver's license, screams volumes. Why, why, why?

Why do I see civil war coming.....

You realize that the GOP, and Hilary, would have ripped Obama apart if he wasn't legit right? Do you really think Hilary or McCain would have given up the Presidency? NO! It's all racism.

Originally posted by GingerR
You realize that the GOP, and Hilary, would have ripped Obama apart if he wasn't legit right? Do you really think Hilary or McCain would have given up the Presidency? NO! It's all racism.

Grow up. It has nothing to do with racism. This would be the same case for any white president as well. It's not the color of his skin that people are upset about. It's his inability to be open and honest with the American people.

reply to post by HunkaHunka


Tell that to the men who where in Lt. Calley's command. Any order from a superior no matter how far up the chain of command must be given by a true and legal authority and that authority would and does include the CIC! Anyone following such and order is responsible for HIS/HER actions under that order!

Zindo

Superior Orders and the responsibility

Superior orders in national and international law

Originally posted by RichieScott1
I would love to see your reasoning behind that. If your boss isn't legal, how in the world can his orders be considered legal? If he is in office under false pretenses, then soldiers have a duty to call him out. If it is your advice to sit down and shut up, it sounds like you want a communist government.

I never said I wanted them to sit down and shut up.

I said that if you have an issue with the ORDERS please explain how the ORDERS are illegal. If the ORDERS don't ask you to do something ILLEGAL, like WATERBOARDING, or some other action which would be ILLEGAL then yes, speak up. Of course we see how well that went...

But to not question the legality of the ORDERS but instead the legitimacy of the one giving them... no... that is not within the right of any Soldier or Sailor.

Originally posted by RichieScott1

Originally posted by GingerR
You realize that the GOP, and Hilary, would have ripped Obama apart if he wasn't legit right? Do you really think Hilary or McCain would have given up the Presidency? NO! It's all racism.

Grow up. It has nothing to do with racism. This would be the same case for any white president as well. It's not the color of his skin that people are upset about. It's his inability to be open and honest with the American people.

Then how come none of you go after McCain for being born in Panama? No, cause he's white. But a black man born in Hawaii, a state of America, you go ape crap crazy.

Originally posted by Tank2/8
reply to post by Moodle

 

You and amagnon have some pretty disillusioned views about how 'some grougs', the groups we are fighting feel about us and what they would do to us if they had the capability. If just one of these people had the chance to come to your house moodle, I promise you that individual not hesitate for a second to kill you, your wife, kids and dog all in one glorious explosion, praising allah as his body ripped apart by his own doing.

It's not their fault. Would you scorn a baby because it couldn't walk? They are only doing what they've been brainwashed and conditioned to do. The bigger picture is we are all the same species living on the same planet, fighting against each other over pointless views of God or authority.

No one should be dieing and the entire world population needs to understand this so we can focus our attention towards creating our future.