Chavez, Galloway to break Gaza siege: Report

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Probably. Chavez and Galloway have given us plenty to be cynical about.

Do you know of any leaders who have not given you plenty to be cynical about?

I wonder how much of an active poster you would be if it was Obama, Bush or Cheney going to Gaza instead of Chavez.

Tell me, what would you say out of curiosity?

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Most hate dictators simply because they are dictators.reality for the propping up of their own meglomaniacle standing.

We live in complicated times.
Maybe, just maybe you have to be a dictator to not be part of the NWO or under America's thumb. Just maybe!

Chavez >>>>>> Any of the last 2 American Presidents!
Stop being jealous.

[edit on 14-7-2009 by ModernAcademia]

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.

Do you know where that last quote you make comes from? It's what gorgeous George said to Saddam Hussein when he was brown nosing with the psychopath! George has a late night weekend radio phone in show on Talk Sport where he always shouts down and brow beats anyone who dares disagree with him.

He also wiped the floor with Christopher Hitchens in a public debate which was, I think, held in New York.
Very charismatic but also very egotistical.

Yes, I know where that comes from. It was at that time that I thought Mr Galloway was a malicious little man but at the time, I was a soldier with a more narrow view of my world. I thought of him in those days as nothing more than a traitor. However now, with the passage of many years and the realisation that I was a pawn I have mellowed towards the man. If he is a traitor then so am I.

I quoted him to remind (myself) that he is a flawed and egotistical man but overall still a good man for all that. I think he lets his passions get the better of him but he does get his point across in a way that just cannot be ignored.

I used to be an avid listener of talksport BTW and I agree that he did brow beat and verbally butcher anyone who disagreed with him but I could not help but admire the eloquent and merciless way he dispatched them. It was a sad day when the station went down the plug as I do not own a TV and never will.

The Christopher Hitchens butchery was a brilliant assault by Mr Galloway and to this day, I still occasionally hit UTUBE when I want to remind myself of why I now approve of the man.

Originally posted by Mdv2
For those not familiar with Galloway, this is him:

And this, too is George Galloway.

Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you, Hugo Chavez, the man some of you have called a humanitarian:

www.reuters.com...

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez Confronted on Political Prisoners at Summit of the Americas

PORT OF SPAIN, TRINIDAD and TOBAGO, April 17 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- Today at the inauguration of the Fifth Summit of the Americas hosted by Trinidad and Tobago, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez was confronted by a full-page announcement published in the national newspaper Trinidad Express signed by nine prominent human rights groups, calling upon all Summit delegates to directly confront Mr. Chavez on numerous human rights violations.

The announcement states that President Chavez has manipulated the criminal justice system to bring politically motivated charges against 45 different individuals, violating their basic human rights as guaranteed by local and international law. These violations include character assassination, fabricating criminal charges and evidence, torturing and bribing witnesses, breaching privacy and confidentiality, interfering with and controlling judges, and groundless pre-trial incarceration and denial of bail, the announcement states.

But, by all means, cite PressTV as a credible source, call Chavez a humanitarian.

Oh and say hello to the Easter Bunny and Tooth Fairy too.

It is amazing how pure hatred of Israel causes people to lose all sense of perspective.

Good luck in your fantasy world folks. Thankfully you represent a very insignificant minority.

reply to post by ModernAcademia

Maybe, just maybe you have to be a dictator to not be part of the NWO or under America's thumb. Just maybe!

Right. There are only two choices. No other middle ground.

Originally posted by Night Watchman
call Chavez a humanitarian.

It is amazing how pure hatred of Israel causes people to lose all sense of perspective.

What exactly does thinking Chavez is a good guy have to do with thinking Israel is evil?

Where do you see a relation between the two, please define it!

And why must wanting Gazans to have access to food mean one must hate Israel?

I suppose I am somehow an anti-semite for asking these questions?

Man you guys will cling to any straw you can find, and even the one's you can't find, but you make your argument look worse by doing so not better.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


It's only for this specific example.

Stop this "strawman" bull#. It's old, and it doesn't invalidate a point.

Chavez could care less about a few million people on the other side of the world.

Why not help Sudan, why not help Ethiopia, why not help Nigeria, why not help east asia, why not help the countless other nations that need help and are closer.

No.

Instead he choses to help in an area Iran is contesting in.

Logic dictates this is politics, not humanitarian.

[edit on 14-7-2009 by Gorman91]

[edit on 14-7-2009 by Gorman91]

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
I wonder how much of an active poster you would be if it was Obama, Bush or Cheney going to Gaza instead of Chavez. Tell me, what would you say out of curiosity?

I'd be just as critical but with different reasons because their trips would be for reasons other than meglomaniacle dictatorships. I'd remind Obama, Bush or Cheney that the so-called palestinians are no friends of Americans. (neither are the Israelis .. but that's for a different thread).




I'd remind them of the fact that the so-called palestinians made their own bed and now they must lie in it. Made it by committing continual daily rocket attacks upon Israeli civilians in an effort to murder and terrorize them. I'd remind them of the continual suicide bombers who mass murder Israeli civilians. I'd remind them of the FACT that Israel is a soverign nation and can use what ever means it decides to defend itself from these continual attacks. I'd remind them that the so-called palestinians are troublemakers who get kicked out of every country they try to live in (Jordan, Syria, Israel, Egypt). I'd remind them that the so-called palestinians are JORDANs problem and not ours. The former king of Jordan said 'all palestinians are jordanians'. Let Jordan deal with them.

I'd remind them of the continual black hole of giving 'aid' to both Israel and the so-called palestinians .. and that AMERICANS here are suffering and could use the aid much more. Help our own first. I'd remind them that Americans do not appreciate our tax money being spent on foreign aid to that part of the world ... to either the Israelis or the so called palestinians ... and to KNOCK IT OFF. Those people are going to fight no matter what. They've been doing it for thousands of years. My tax money is better spent here at home.

Finally I'd tell them to disengage .. to back the hell off .. to let Israel and the so-called palestinians duke it out once and for all without any interference from us or anyone else. Whoever is left standing is the winner and that should be the end of it.

I'd have plenty to say if nitwit Obama or yahoo Bush (43) or Cheney went over to the Gaza instead of Chavez. I'd have PLENTY to say .. so don't worry yourself about it.

Stop being jealous.

Again ... of what? Chavez is a dictator. What on earth is there to be jealous of? That's absurd - but highly comical. Thanks for the laugh.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia


What exactly does thinking Chavez is a good guy have to do with thinking Israel is evil?

Where do you see a relation between the two, please define it!

And why must wanting Gazans to have access to food mean one must hate Israel?

You are involved in many of the same threads that I read and post in. Any discussion of Gaza always draws the legions of Israel hating simpletons. I'm not including you in that group but please don't pretend it isn't readily evident.

Those same people love to use PressTV as a "news source," when any thinking person knows that it is a propaganda arm of the Iranian govt/

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
And why must wanting Gazans to have access to food mean one must hate Israel?

They have plenty of access .. through those illegal smuggling tunnels.
Ooooops .. they are too busy smuggling in weapons to kill Israeli civilians.
Nevermind.

Perhaps if they stopped raining rockets down upon people and stopped
with the suicide bombers, then the borders with Israel and Egypt would
open up and they'd have more access to more goods.

like I said ... they made their own bed ... let them lie in it.
(they might learn something)

Originally posted by Gorman91
Instead he choses to help in an area Iran is contesting in.

Chavez LOOOOOVES Iran. He made a big speech there about destroying America. He hates America. HE is the one who is jealous .. not me.

Logic dictates this is politics, not humanitarian.

Yep.

Originally posted by Night Watchman
Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you, Hugo Chavez, the man some of you have called a humanitarian:
It is amazing how pure hatred of Israel causes people to lose all sense of perspective.
Good luck in your fantasy world folks. Thankfully you represent a very insignificant minority.

Mind you, Israel has a pretty grim record itself...the only difference is that Chavez has not been blessed with the same amount of Telflon.

The two terrorist clowns going to sort things out, i.e. Chavez and Galloway. I could not help laughing my head off when I read this..... HAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAA!!!

I find it appalling that some people here actually think Chavez is any kind of humanitarian!

I guess you forget all those people he's abducted and locked up in his base in Cuba....er...

And don't forget about the people he's whisked away in the middle of the night aboard unregistered flights and taken to foreign countries in order to torture and.....er.....

Let's all remember the video's we've seen coming from the abuse his prisoners have suffered in the prisons set up in Iraq after his invasion....er....


damn

[edit on 14-7-2009 by TXRabbit]

Originally posted by FlyersFan
I'd be just as critical but with different reasons because their trips would be for reasons other than meglomaniacle dictatorships. I'd remind Obama, Bush or Cheney that the so-called palestinians are no friends of Americans. (neither are the Israelis .. but that's for a different thread).

WOW
You call THAT being just as critical?
The one's that started wars and invasions on top of a foundations of lies after lies and lies after lies?

You call THAT being critical?
Try again!

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Made it by committing continual daily rocket attacks upon Israeli civilians in an effort to murder and terrorize them. I'd remind them of the continual suicide bombers who mass murder Israeli civilians.

Ever think that maybe if you were blockaded by a giant wall with robot snipers pointing at you if you come too close to the wall and not having enough access to food or medical aid and seeing friends and family murdered day after day after day because of Israeli attacks you just might yourself send a few rockets out?

Ever try empathy?

Secondly there are many farmers and mothers there too, and they are just trying to survive however they are also being attacked.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
My tax money is better spent here at home.

That's the only thing i'll agree with you on.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Finally I'd tell them to disengage .. to back the hell off .. to let Israel and the so-called palestinians duke it out once and for all without any interference from us or anyone else. Whoever is left standing is the winner and that should be the end of it.

Kind of unfair considering palestine have very little access to arms and the U.S. sends shiploads of arms and military financing including white phosphorus to Israel way too often.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Again ... of what? Chavez is a dictator. What on earth is there to be jealous of? That's absurd - but highly comical. Thanks for the laugh.

Yes the laughs, ah yes the laughs
I see you laughing alot flyersfan with the smileys
reminds me of Fox News laughing at people who just bring logic to the table.

Exactly, and I've made a few threads that demonstrate exactly how this Press TV propaganda operates.

And the anti-Israeli folks flocked there to show their hatred towards western media and Israel. They are as bad as Galloway - full of emotion and very little logic, and they don't seem to think before they speak.

The Gazans smuggle in weapons & rockets through tunnels to fire at and murder Israeli's whilst Gazans lack more important supplies. Why don't they smuggle in food instead! The problem is Hamas and other terrorist organisations such as Hezbollah who don't care about ordinary Gazans.... people should look there for the blame before blaming everything on Israel. Israel are a sovereign nation you would expect them look after it's own first.

The Gazan's made their own bed...let them lie in it. When they show they're willing to stop smuggling weapons that are used to fire indiscrimantly at civilians, then it will be acceptable to allow supplies through, as at the moment opening shipping lanes giving illegal regimes & terrorist organisations the opportunity to smuggle in more weapons and rockets.

George Galloway has made his bed with the illegal regime in Iran, and idiots like Chavez... let him lie in it as well!

Chavez is NOT a humanitarian... he is doing this for political reasons either to deceive the world, or to provoke Israel, incite anti-Israeli, anti-western and anti-american views, or worse to start a war. Chavez does not show concern for any other area in the world, therefore humanitarian excuses are part of the Iranian Press TV propaganda.

The illegal Iranian regime has always been trying to disrupt the middle east near Israel.

And Galloway is an idiot who is fooled by the same people (most notable the Islamic regime) as the Israel haters on here.

Therefore those on here who are anti-Israeli are inclined to believe the regime, Galloway and the many other muppets who spread the same propaganda, lies and nonsense.


[edit on 14-7-2009 by john124]

You guys that say that everyone who disagrees with you are part of the "we hate israel" group sound like that guy from Seinfeld that would call everyone an anti-semite.

Can someone embed a youtube of that clip so some of these people could look in the mirror?

Originally posted by FlyersFan

I'd remind them of the fact that the so-called palestinians made their own bed and now they must lie in it.

The videos you posted are propaganda. They were filmed before 9/11. Way to fall for the MSM brainwashing

Originally posted by Curio
The videos you posted are propaganda. They were filmed before 9/11. Way to fall for the MSM brainwashing

No curio .. they were filmed ON 9/11.
Way to fall for the anti-Israeli branswashing.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
You call THAT being critical? Try again!

Um .. no. That was plenty critical. You gave a hypothetical .. and I gave my response. IF Bush, Cheney or Obama did the same thing, those are the things I'd remind them of.

Ever try empathy?

1 - right back atchya. You have no empathy for the soverign nation of Israel who just wants to be left alone and not have to dodge daily rocket attacks and suicide bombers.

2 - I jhave said it before and I'll say it again, I no longer have empathy for the so-called palestinians. I used to. But I no longer do. They made their own bed, they can lie in it. Also, they danced with joy in the streets on 9/11. SCREW 'EM.

I see you laughing alot flyersfan

That's because you keep saying silly things.
Jealous of Chavez?
You still haven't given a single reason why anyone would be.
Good luck with that.

I believe firmly that the siege of Gaza needs to be broken and an end to the illegal collective punishment Israel inflicts in violation of U.N. Accords and Treaties should happen as soon as humanly possible.

I applaud anyone who makes credible efforts towards this end.

It is not to say that Chavez's is a self serving or meaningless effort. The man does try to do some good in the world but as someone who lives in Miami, which is a city that deals with the human overflow of change and turmoil throughout Latin America I will say that Chavez has caused some major upheaval in Venezuela that has not been well received by the status quo.

Whether it will be change for the better or worse only time will tell, but his controversial and threatening stance as with all leaders who buck the status quo only undermines his credibility in the mainstream of those people who find comfort and certainty in maintaining the status quo.

In the late 1960's and early 1970's the Counter Culture Revolution here in the United States was not aimed at toppling the government, but the government genuinely feared it not only was aimed at toppling the government but could potentially topple the government.

The 'hippies' messages for love and peace where universal ones that most mainstream Americans could identify with.

What mainstream Americans could not identify with was the 'look' and some of the 'behaviors' of the 'typical' and 'stereo typical' hippie. It bucked the status quo and the government was actually thankful for these things because if the hippies had short haircuts, wore three piece suits and sipped martinis...main stream America might have completely siezed on the love and peace part of the message and a genuine revolution might have occurred.

I think the lessons of Watergate and subsequent governments and administrations have illustrated that American might have been far better off had the Counter Culture Revolution turned into a real Revolution and overthrown the increasingly unconstitutional government.

It didn't though, and it didn't primarily because it was an 'alienating' look and approach to the ills of the world that as appealing as the message was the messengers themselves weren't and frightened mainstream Americans.

Chavez in many ways like the 'hippies' will do more harm than good because of his unconventional approaches to changing the status quo. While some of it is just character assassination carried out be the intelligence agencies and governments and media the end result is mainstream society does not trust or understand Chavez.

Chavez's association with the cause will only give both his detractors and those who support the wholesale oppression of Gaza and the West Bank yet another reason to vilify the few bedfellows who buck the status quo as being 'dubious' and 'poor' bedfellows and all the more reason to isolate Gaza and the West Bank.

The people of the region especially those in the Mediterranean need to organize a 'Dunkirk' style flotilla to liberate Gaza, where there are so many average, ordinary mainstream people involved that it can't possibly be misconstrued as part of some sinister radical agenda but simply an act of humanitarianism, by a world that can no longer tolerate the horrors inflicted upon the people of Gaza.

I applaud Chavez’s efforts or anyone prepared to commit to helping Gaza but I do fear because of his reputation at large, deserved or not, he will simply end up doing more harm than good for the people of Gaza through his efforts.