Why Is Russia Planning to Outlaw Jehovah’s Witnesses?

According to this generally pro-Kremlin source the Jehovah’s Witnesses movement is currently being tried through the Russian courts. If they loos they could be “banned” from the country.
www.russiatoday.com...

So clearly the Russian state thinks the cost of oppressing 200,000 citizens out of 140,702,096 is not only a cost, but also possibly a good investment for the future too. So will the police soon be shutting down a Moscow church (some Sunday near you) with much the same duty of pride they would obtain from shutting down a Crack House?

Why & How?
I would say some of the answers can be found in the article…

Some of Jehovah’s Witnesses have been imprisoned for refusing to do their compulsory military service.

It’s expensive for any state to put people in prison. It may be a period of bonding experiences, in 3rd world conditions, (much like Russian national service they "miss out" on!) but it’s for all the wrong Stalinist-social reasons.

And also…

Their faith doesn’t allow them to receive blood transfusions, and several have been tried for denying them to their children.

Never has it not been The Russian State’s duty to look after the property that is in the form of its citizens. If a citizen is dying it makes sense that you give them a blood transfusion whether it likes it or not. After all the moment it gets better, they can make steel or something, and therefore die after a life of work and paying taxes.

I have to add that as the choice is only "Evangelically religious" in nature, I tend to agree about the forced blood transfusions as a child’s life is at stake, and most peoples religions support a god who is at least sympathetic towards human life.

I usually support the Russian government as its thinking (especially over foreign policy) is often very wise and original.
But there are occasions (when its authoritarian streak rises) and it should become clear to us all that although the West can be oppressive, we are all still incredibly lucky not be living in a country which exercises oppression as backward as that still (infrequently) found in Russia.

[edit on 090705 by Liberal1984]

reply to post by Liberal1984


Have you ever talked to one? No seriously, banning just makes things worse, let them be. I know its difficult, but their one of the only religions to practice what they preach. So Russia, let them be, even though some of us understand why you wnat to ban them, just let them be..

Why This Is A Mistake for A "United Russia"…
We would never do this in the West as it would create too much unrest. In the West there are many churches, and therefore they don’t speak under one voice.
However in Russia the generally pro-Kremlin "Russian Orthodox Church" dominates the Christian landscape, and clearly the intention is to keep a united church within church.

But…

Oppression of any religious Movement simply means…
“The faithful can only practice their religious activities when the present Kremlin political class, is either changed from within, and (or) from foreign aid?”

In this way the Russian government is opening itself up to security risks as it is effectively creating disloyal citizens within its own geography. This is a problem as (other than failure) a usual historical result of oppressing religion is that it goes underground, and therefore creates potential traitors that cannot be seen.

I don’t know who exactrly wants to ban the Evangelicals but they’re practical, political incompetence, could potentially get them shot!!!

[edit on 090705 by Liberal1984]

I watched that interview on the website posted in the OP. I don't understand why they were running those strange videos in the background. I don't think those were Jehovah's Witnesses in the scenes. Maybe those were some of the weird religions passing through Russia back in the 60s. It looked like a propaganda film to slant people away from the JW's.

this just makes me laugh. Stalin opresses all religon. Communisim falls. And now they opress just one religon. Why dont they get right to it and show the US there sleeping in the same bed and gass some muslims.

Well, the JWs believe in the end of a monetary system and are most likely pleased when the system is failing. They may then be considered a threat.

Wheras Scientology seems to be more oriented in capitalist or money making ventures by comparison? (not clear on that either) I'd like to hear what other religions they plan on banning after that one.

Let's make a list.

The JWs were said to have also been in NAZI concentration camps and probably labor camps in the Soviet Union.

They aren't my favorite group of people, but they aren't a threat to me.

Chances are, JWs would have been treated as badly by the Romans as another political threat.

Originally posted by aleon1018


Chances are, JWs would have been treated as badly by the Romans as another political threat.

The first Christians in Rome were entertainment in the Coliseum and eventually eaten by the lions. The Romans didn't like the first Christians. However, as we all know Rome succumbed to the Christian influence and then the Roman Catholic Church was born. As was said above, banning only makes it stronger. I wonder how many JW's are really in China?

I am one of Jehovah's Witness. This story from Russia is nothing new, we've been dealing with this for years all over the world. We are falsely accused, we are misunderstood, we are hated... because we love our neighbor, we would never hurt our fellow man and we refuse military service. We profess allegiance to God alone.

Twenty-three arrests in Eritrea include children and elderly

ASMARA, Eritrea—Three children ranging from two to four years of age were among the latest group of 23 Jehovah’s Witnesses arrested in Eritrea. In that number is also a child of 8, a woman over 70 and another over 80.

On June 28, 2009, some 23 members of one congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Asmara were peacefully meeting together for worship. These meetings also serve to encourage and support congregation members since many have already suffered the loss of other family members who were imprisoned, several of whom were the breadwinners for their family. Most of the latest arrests are female congregation members because their husbands and sons have long since been arrested.

The total number of Jehovah’s Witnesses known to be imprisoned in Eritrea is now 69. About 20 of them are in their 60s and 70s. Since July 2008, Eritrean authorities have summarily arrested responsible members of the Witness community. Most are now in prison. Also, over the past several years, the police have often arrested people for merely attending a Witness meeting.

In many cases, however, no reason for the arrest was given. This is a contrast from arrests made presumably on the basis of nonparticipation in military service. Three young men arrested on those grounds are still being held in prison nearly 15 years later, but they have never been formally charged.

Source

Conscientious Objectors

REPUBLIC OF ARMENIA July 2009

Currently, there are 72 Jehovah’s Witnesses who are in prison for their conscientious refusal of military service on religious grounds. Of these, 71 have been tried and convicted and 1 is being held in pretrial detention. The names, dates of imprisonment, grounds (under criminal code1 ), the duration of punishment and present locations are as follows:

Source

South Korea has compulsory military service but does not have a legislative provision for alternative civilian service. There is no exemption from military service for ministers of religion or for conscientious objectors. Every year, 400 to 700 draft-age men who are Jehovah’s Witnesses are convicted and imprisoned because they refuse to perform military service. Conscientious objectors to military service are tried in civilian courts and are usually sentenced to 18 months in prison. Conscientious objectors who are called up as reservists must face multiple prosecutions and repeated punishments over an eight-year period.

Since the 1950’s, more than 13,000 of Jehovah’s Witnesses have been imprisoned in South Korea for refusing to perform military service.

As of September 30, 2008, there were 408 Jehovah’s Witnesses in prison in South Korea because of their conscientious objection to military service. Additionally, over 80 Witnesses are subjected to repeated fines totaling hundreds of thousands of dollars because of conscientious objection to military reserve duty.

Source










[edit on 13-7-2009 by holywar]

[edit on 13-7-2009 by holywar]

Originally posted by TheMythLives
reply to post by Liberal1984

 

Have you ever talked to one? No seriously, banning just makes things worse, let them be. I know its difficult, but their one of the only religions to practice what they preach. So Russia, let them be, even though some of us understand why you wnat to ban them, just let them be..

NO They only SAY they practice what they preach..behind closed doors they are one of the worst.....

I was one for about 8 years...thought I found the "truth" because they had rules not in other religions...

Well, they are the most hypocritical, judgemental, and emotionally abusive yet...

Every bad thing they do is kept "hush hush" because if anyone finds out they will bring "reproach" on Jehovah's name etc... so when you are molested, raped, or stolen from, lied to, cheated on or beaten by your husband, you suffer in silence, because when you go to the elders they allways say to keep it private so you don't bring reproach on jehovah's name....

Meanwhile you sit there and watch said rapist/childmolestr/cheater/lier etc, etc, etc, etc get all praised and extra attaention to overcome their "temoptation" while their victoms are treated like the liars or "threat" to the reputation of the organization etc.....

Sad...sad...sad.....

Most of Russia is predominantly Russian Orthodox.

I wonder if the church had a major role in this?

Seperation of church and state happened many years ago, as it did in Greece, but they still have plenty of influence.

I have nothing against JW's personally, but there are alot of skeletons in the closet.

You can't turn a blind eye to child abuse... ever.

Most of Russia is predominantly Russian Orthodox.

I wonder if the church had a major role in this?

Seperation of church and state happened many years ago, as it did in Greece, but they still have plenty of influence.

I have nothing against JW's personally, but there are alot of skeletons in the closet.

You can't turn a blind eye to child abuse... ever.

reply to post by holywar


It's interesting how some major religions such as the Catholic Church is tested and brought down in some way by the laws, such as with the child abuse cases. And yet they are just as helpless as many others in being able to stop it through their prayers to the arch angels. Our governments are also outnumbered. We couldn't build enough prisons or even kill fast enough to stop all of the potential crimes and abuses.

My thought is that many religions hold a piece of the puzzle. JWs may actually be closer to the truth than many others, by being newer and adapting, If only they would get together with the others to find common ground.
My ex-wife was a pretentious JW and a user for her own selfishness. Unfortunately, the ones who were training her set bad material examples also.

We are only human/animals and whatever force is out there to destroy our peace and moral free will, is taking whatever means to destroy our families.

The science fiction Wishmaster or Jinn are in someway similar.

One mention in the bible, as far as I can recall, is about the hosts and the great hosts. Many are judged by being hosts, rather than by their own heart and when they have their free will.

Revelations to me is when the truth reveals itself to us.

[edit on 14-7-2009 by aleon1018]

It is probably an agenda to make the Jehovah's Witnesses cling together stronger than ever in their belief system as they believe that they are persecuted because they are the only True religion.

If you persecute them, they will cling to their faith with more zeal than ever before as this completes their programmed circular reasoning.

Jesus said in their 'New World Translation' : 'If they persecute me, they will persecute you!'

Personally, I believe the New World Order actually want everyone to be like the Jehovah's Witnesses because they have no political interest and OBEY unquestioningly everything (except to abandon their religion) that their governments DEMAND from them as that is what they are programmed to do.

In the future, everyone will be expected to be like the Jehovah's Witnesses in their unquestioning obedience.

I often wondered if the present NWO governments would just Persecute the Jehovah's Witnesses and other YOrk Rite religious cults as a sham. They would lock them in concentration camps as they destroy the rest of us and then release the JWs and other York Rite Cults telling them they had been saved by God.

Then, the NWO would have the perfect obedient mind controlled slaves for their own purpose as the rest of us would be DEAD, apparantly killed by God for not following the JWs or other cults.

Clever people these NWO genius'!

You have to take your hat off to them!

But they will never suceed in the long run.........the Destroyer is on its way!

I wonder if this is the way it ends everytime?

[edit on 23-7-2009 by Elliot]

reply to post by holywar

Holywar - Have you never wondered why the WatchTower literature has always pushed 'One World Government', 'One World Religion at Hand' etc and The New World Order'?

Go back to the beginning of the religion.

The Russells who initiated the Jehovah's Witnesses also initiated the Skull and Bones Society, and were involved in the beginning of the other York Rite religions, Christadelphians, LDS etc.

Remember, OBEDIENCE is what the NWO demands and OBEDIENCE is what is enforced in the JWs and other York Rite Cults!

I wish you well, but do look back if you want to know what is coming next!

Good luck my friend!

Myself, I would rather be dead than a NWO mind control slave!

reply to post by mellisamouse
Your comment is horrifically true. However, you have to remember, that these people are under strict mind control and do not behave in a manner that normal people behave.

They are manipulated into total obedience by total fear!

Originally posted by Elliot
It is probably and agenda to make the Jehovah's Witnesses cling together stronger than ever in their belief system as they believe that they are persecuted because they are the only True religion.

lol, why would that be the agenda?

reply to post by miriam0566

Agenda = plan

JWs need to believe that they are the True religion and they only believe this because they think they are special and the ONLY ones persecuted.

Persecute them enough, and you could get them to obey anything except denounce their faith.

This was why JWs were the lackeys in the concentration camps. AS long as you did not ask them to go against their Bible you could get them to do absolutely anything as they are brainwashed into obedience to the state!

reply to post by Elliot

This was why JWs were the lackeys in the concentration camps. AS long as you did not ask them to go against their Bible you could get them to do absolutely anything as they are brainwashed into obedience to the state!

That is the most ignorant statement I have ever read on this site, and that is saying a lot.

If everybody had reacted as the Bibleforscher (Bible Students) did towards the Nazi's we would have never had the Holocaust or WWII.

You want to criticize the only Germans who as a group stood up against the Nazi's? Not because of race but because of belief structure? They were in concentration camps there wearing their purple triangle's because THEY WOULD NOT LISTEN TO HITLER AND THE NAZI'S. They were disobedient to the Third Reich because they were asking there citizens to do evil things, mostly making war on their neighboring countries.

What you are really talking about is this type of thing, they were the only ones that could be trusted to shave a Nazi SS officer with a straight razor, because they knew if they were willing to die for their faith they wouldn't commit murder either, because it was against their belief structure. The SS guards had a love hate relationship with them during WWII hated them because they couldn't break them as that was their job. Loved them because they could actually trust them not to hurt them or violate their personal standards.

Persecution of Jehovah's Witness's In Germany

World Wide Persecution of Jehovah's Witnesses

One thing is for sure JW's have been and are the "canary in a coal mine" as to when human rights and freedoms are being degraded and downgraded.

In whatever country it has happened to them, once theirs have been stripped away, somebody else is always next, and that is a historical fact.

[edit on 23-7-2009 by Blue_Jay33]

reply to post by TheMythLives


Right on. freedom of religion should be an applicable principle in every "free" nation. As long as they are not hurting anybody I see no reason to ban them.

As loony as most of them are...

reply to post by Blue_Jay33

Blue-Jay - With the greatest respect, you may believe the WatchTower's propaganda on its role in the concentration camps, BUT did you know who it was who gave all the names and addresses of the Jehovah's Witnesses in Germany to the Nazi's?

Yup! The WatchTower Bible and Tract Society.

Have you ever read their leader's letter ('Judge' Rutherford) to Hitler, praising him and his achievements?

The ordinary JWs are just victims of a crazy mind control cult.