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Alien Abduction - Most Likely Relative Molestation!

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posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 02:30 PM
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reply to post by Point of No Return
 


And you are obviously in complete denial of a possibility that a woman who is interested in aliens represses a rape memory with alien abduction. Just because Grapes brought up the idea doesn't make it less possible. Adults are also sometimes raped by one of their relatives. In some cases that makes the memory even more terrifying for the victim and thus it's repressed.
Our "ego" chooses the most likeable subject and replaces the traumatic memory with it. In an alien enthusiast's case it replaces it with an abduction.

I'm not attacking anyone. It's just simpel psychology.


[edit on 15/7/2009 by DGFenrir]




posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 03:34 PM
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Explain these please:

ufos.about.com...



posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 04:25 PM
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reply to post by DGFenrir
 





And you are obviously in complete denial of a possibility that a woman who is interested in aliens represses a rape memory with alien abduction. Just because Grapes brought up the idea doesn't make it less possible.


No, I'm not in denial of the possibility, I thought about it, and it was already made clear why it is not a good theory.

Sure, maybe there are cases where there is a relation between abuse and alien abuction experiences.


But the OP and you are suggesting that all of the thousands of people that claim to be abducted, have actually all been molested, mostly by relatives.

All these men and women, and because of this psychological self defense mechanism, they all come up with the exact same delusional experience?

The same witness accounts?




It's just simpel psychology.


Jeah, it's simple allright.



posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 05:33 PM
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reply to post by Point of No Return
 


I thought I made that clear already. Nobody implied that every single abduction is a result of a traumatic experience that is repressed. How many times do I have to tell you that?
The memory is replaced by something the victim likes.
Of course victims who have similar interests may replace the memory with something similar. That's the only alien related experience that is similar enough to raping etc. People don't volounteer to get abducted.

Yes, psychology is simple. It's pure logic. I know pretty much about psychology, read plenty of books about it and of course done some "field work" also.


I have a big hunger for such knowledge.


[edit on 15/7/2009 by DGFenrir]



posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 05:52 PM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 04:21 AM
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reply to post by DGFenrir
 





I thought I made that clear already. Nobody implied that every single abduction is a result of a traumatic experience that is repressed. How many times do I have to tell you that?





I think ALL people who believe they were adbucted by aliens should go and discuss it with a good psychiatrist, because it is more likely that ALL of you may have been molested by one of your relatives or someone close to you.


Does this not imply that?




The memory is replaced by something the victim likes.


Ah, I see, the victim didn't like being raped by a relative, but the victim does like being abducted and probed by aliens, and then goes out to share the experience, jeah, that makes sense.




I have a big hunger for such knowledge.


More like starving to death.



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 08:14 AM
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reply to post by Point of No Return
 


No, your quoted text implies that every abductee may have been molested by one of their relatives. It doesn't say "All abductees have been molested".
Your reading skills..


The victim likes UFOs/Aliens. Not the abduction itself. Abduction is most the most common negative experience related to aliens. Memory of being molested is replaced by abduction. Abduction doesn't leave a mark that painful to the victim.
The painful memory got replaced with something less painful from a subject the victim likes.

Edit:

And indeed. My brain is starving to death.. I haven't learned anything new from ATS for quite some time now.

From a psycological point of view this theory is the most plausible. There really is no solid evidence that any of these abductees have really been abducted by aliens..


[edit on 16/7/2009 by DGFenrir]

[edit on 16/7/2009 by DGFenrir]



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 10:29 AM
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Sorry, but there are wayyy to many factors that cannot be explained by "molestation".

I am sure there are a ton of people whom have been abducted, that have also been molested by a relative...all of the incidences remebered in full color.....

Also, I think just the SKIN of said aliens is supposedly grey, and that is just ONE claim of a species...

Some have remebered people with white hair, and blond hair, and dark hair, and a ton of other people around etc...etc...etc....

This theory is reallllly grasping at straws.

Denial of other life in the universe, that could easily do these things seems like the delusion to me.

Oh well, just wait until it is your turn, and then we'll see....



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 12:12 PM
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Originally posted by DGFenrir
reply to post by Point of No Return
 


I thought I made that clear already.
I am going to butt in here because the OP is unclear, so for me personally, you are just being clearer on being unclear.

Nobody implied that every single abduction is a result of a traumatic experience that is repressed. How many times do I have to tell you that?
The whole point of the OP is to imply that enough people are excusing a sexual abuse experience as being an alien abduction so as to "explain" the alien abduction phenomena. Read the OP.

The memory is replaced by something the victim likes.
Are you for real? Read the extent of trauma expressed by alien abduction experiencers. The OP uses a study that tries to account for the alien abduction experience as being culturally plausible to individuals trying to come to term with SLEEP PARALYSIS, that is all. There is no link to sexual trauma and alien abduction. Sexual abuse is a phenomena that happens all over the world.
Alien Abduction phenomena does not.
There is no other cultural alternative to account for sexual abuse in other cultures. Why is that?
Why do we not see other cultures creating "myths" that they "like" to explain a pattern of sexual abuse? Answer that please?
Sexual Abuse is not isolated to any culture, it is prevelant all over the world. If the OP is right we should be seeing "myth sets" all over the world that are similar too or match the alien abduction phenomena. Are we?

Of course victims who have similar interests may replace the memory with something similar.
I think you will find that victims of sexual abuse all have sexual abuse in common.

That's the only alien related experience that is similar enough to raping etc. People don't volunteer to get abducted.
You seem to be pandering to the stereo typical "Whitely Strieber"scenario. There are many types of abduction experiences, not everyone gets probed or proded.


Yes, psychology is simple. It's pure logic.
No it is not simple. It is not even Logic. Logic is a way of thinking, not an explanation for it.

I know pretty much about psychology, read plenty of books about it and of course done some "field work" also.
You know pretty much what about psychology?
Did you read where it is a new science, subjective, inprecise? Different in cultures? Effected by language and iterpretation?
Did you read that bit.
Did you read the bit about its flaws, the limits placed on it by the lack of knowledge relating to the true functions of many structures of the brain, the uncertainty in immuno and forensic psychology?
Did you read that?
How about the limitations and frustrations of placing broad and ambiguious definition, diagnosis and symptoms on individual experiences and illness? How do you resolve the flaws in cross cultural psychology in a multicultural nation like the US, its high population with the largest number of reported Alien Abduction Experiences with the flaws in the theory of Evolutionary Psychology? When you perscribe the reason for the Alien abduction as "something a victim of sexual abuse Likes" as a story? How do you account for the cross in culture but a similar "likable" story.
Please don't tell me it is the X-files.


I have a big hunger for such knowledge.
Yeah me too, that is why I went to university and worked as a psych nurse, amongst other areas.


BTW the OP say this

Originally posted by grapesofraft
I think all people who believe they were adbucted by aliens should go and discuss it with a good psychiatrist, because it is more likely that all of you may have been molested by one of your relatives or someone close to you.

But his LINK and Source to back up his Theory say the Opposite. How about you read that.

Clancy, 36, likes most of these people. "They are definitely not crazy," she says.
Havard Gazeete OP link

So why does the OP insist that Alien Abduction Experiencers need a psychiatrist? The OP's link is to a psychology researcher, yet she does not recommend psychiatric help. So why does the OP?
You know why?
You should know because you say this-

I know pretty much about psychology
You know psychology so well you forgot to point out to the OP that his recommendation of Psychiatry is completely different to Psychology.
Psychiatists are trained M.D's.
Where as Psychologists hold PHD's in Philosophy- and base their education on Research.
Now this is important- as you would know obviously because you have read so well-each individual performs their own individual project called a doctoral dissertation.
The OP's source, Susan Clancy specialised in Memories, specifically recovered memories of sexual abuse victim who recoverd their memories under hypnosis(sound familiar....many alien abduction cases recover their memories in similar ways). Clancy found it politically troubling and sensitive to challenge the memories of sexual abuse victims.

What do you think she did?
She picked a group who, culturally, had little or no support, sympathy or acceptance and challenged their recovered memories. Do you know who they were?
Alien Abductees.
She based here research on Alien Abductees as being Prima Facie false(or in other words at first glance or as it appears to be) and knew, from the academic and scientific community, her assumptions would be supported so she could the work purely on explaining "her" version of an abductees experience by automatically rendering ANY personal testimony as false.
That is not what I call science.
That is what I call loading the dice.
Read her Book- Abducted: How People Come to Believe They Were Kidnapped by Aliens by Susan Clancy.

I actually like some of her work on sleep paralysis- but unfortunately I feel there are better ways of offering alternative explanations to the experience than taking academic short cuts. Anyway, you probably already know this from all that you have read.



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 07:13 PM
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DG I'm sorry but this is just preposterous. I can't believe so many people, mostly adults, would just replace memories of molestation. And replace it with alien abduction??? I'd say alien abduction is a pretty scary experience. And did you even consider my posts? Try and find a way to explain all of those cases in the link I provided in my last post. And try to explain the ACTUAL PHYSICAL EVIDENCE of Dr. Roger Leir which I have already discussed. You deny all this without even looking at the evidence because you are too close minded (or just plain lazy) to do so.

[edit on 16-7-2009 by AliensExist]

[edit on 16-7-2009 by AliensExist]



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 07:35 PM
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Watch the X Conference, it was pretty recent, I encourage you to watch all of it but here's the part with Dr. Leir starting near the end of part 7. Then PhD scientist Alex Moser examining his findings. This conference was no joke, it was covered by CNN and had some very important people talking.

Part 7: www.youtube.com...
Part 8: www.youtube.com...
Part 9: www.youtube.com...
Part 10: www.youtube.com...

Here's some other videos of Leir's findings:

www.youtube.com... (watch 5:00 onward for Leir)
www.youtube.com... Discovery Channel vid, implants studied by Doug Perovic, chief of science and engineering at the University of Toronto
www.youtube.com... Dr. Leir at the National UFO Congress

And again, look at all of these cases.
ufos.about.com...

[edit on 16-7-2009 by AliensExist]



posted on Jul, 16 2009 @ 07:55 PM
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reply to post by grapesofraft
 


Have you recently seen this film - Mysterious Skin?

www.imdb.com...

It basically is exactly based on your theory.

Its a good film if not a little too raw.

As for the theory, maybe in a handful of cases but imo the overwhelming majority are for real or at least not child abuse related.


[edit on 16/7/09 by cropmuncher]



posted on Jul, 17 2009 @ 07:05 AM
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reply to post by atlasastro
 



The victim likes UFOs/Aliens. Not the abduction itself. Abduction is most the most common negative experience related to aliens


You obviously didn't read that.
And I never said or even implied that I'm a trained professional.

There are tons of more usual victims who live with the memory than there are abducted people.
The OP didn't say that they need a psychiatrist. They might use a psychiatrists help to determine whether the abduction was "real" or not.
reply to post by AliensExist
 

There are many many more people who live with those memories.
And stop using the word "ALL". Makes you look stupid.

I avoid generalizing at all costs by not using this word but you people still feel offended.

I've seen that PHYSICAL EVIDEEENCEE!!1



posted on Jul, 17 2009 @ 10:46 AM
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[edit on 17-7-2009 by mopusvindictus]



posted on Jul, 17 2009 @ 11:04 AM
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I just found a site about regression therapy and abuctee experiences that's an interesting read. It also mentions how it's hard to find psychiatrists open to alien abductions and therapies without the earth bound excuses. My own history and experiences also recalls hypnosis at least once when I was growing up. My recall was that the person conducting the procedure didn't leave there without their own traumatic experience.

I recall whatever it or they were, were hypnotizing them instead.
Telling them their own life history. So bizarre.

So, it's my fear that hypnosis for me and the therapist, isn't a very good idea, as-if to open some doorway.

www.chrononhotonthologos.com...

[edit on 17-7-2009 by aleon1018]



posted on Jul, 17 2009 @ 01:29 PM
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reply to post by aleon1018
 


ohhhh creepy about the hypnotist! Wowzers....I am not hyponotizable....I allways wish I could be for various reasons, but no one has been able to do it to me yet.......

Mabey you were just replaying what the abductors did to YOU and that freaked out the hypnotist, or did he/she say they actually visitied to stop him/her from getting the info from you?

It is weird because there is a whole LOT of info I know I am meant to share, and I DO... but mabey there is info for just US to???

I think so because there are certain safe zones etc that I will only tell some people about, and others I tell them a different place where they should go etc....like they can't corrupt certain areas that are just for certain people.....because they will wreck it for themselves and others anyways etc........weird.....sad....not much can be done about it anymore...spent nearly 36 years now trying to help them see, giving all the love that could begiven etc.....

Sorry, back on track..... I too am ashamed to remeber those horrid things done by relatives as a child, and one babysitter.... so if I remeber those horrors clear as day, why do you think that the abductions would be made up by my mind, I already rember the WORST OF THE WORST imaginable happeneing????

That is just silly, especially since there were UFO sightings, police searches, footprints in the snow, etc, etc, etc, me not cold or wet after being "lost" in the -40 all night, etc, etc, etc, etc...... that wouldn't explain me and 2 friends on tge way home from school all having our roller skates on one minute, and the next being 4 houses down in the back yard with NO roller skates on right after seeing the object in the sky.....blah blah blah, I could go on for hours, but that is all on other threads already etc...

One theory I have heard though is the other way AROUND... people who have been abducted having MOLESTATION memories that later turned out to be ABDUCTIONS.....
.



posted on Jul, 17 2009 @ 01:44 PM
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Not only is this theory ridiculous, it is downright insulting to people who genuinely have been molested by relatives. Rest assured such people do NOT cococt such stories to alleviate the pain, and the few that do (if there are any) are the exception, not the rule...



posted on Jul, 17 2009 @ 01:53 PM
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reply to post by mellisamouse
 


That's a likely and typical excuse for some types of abductions. They're called screen memories. The person you thought was holding you or touching was actually someone or something else.

Just like the hypnosis and nightmares.

My other memories also included clones, such as of me. A couple of which I now recall that were found dead. I also have a couple memories of dying and getting a replacement body and of someone I have known. Skull and using facial reconstructions showed that they were us when we were younger.

The fact is, is that clones may than be responsible for things you hadn't done. Even some muslims have suggested that the Jesus figure may have been a clone or a twin etc.

Miracles can happen in front of those who don't understand how the illusions are done. Apparently, there's always room for deception.

The ability to control and confuse the mind and body have been proved already.



posted on Jul, 17 2009 @ 03:01 PM
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reply to post by DGFenrir
 


You're the one who looks stupid instead of responding to the evidence you're insulting me for saying "all" to many times? Are you kidding me? What are you even referring to when you say "There are many many more people who live with those memories?" You're still not responding to my post or finding any "reasonable" explanations for some of those abductions. And stop using those smiley faces please it gets really annoying. Lastly, USE YOUR BRAIN! USE COMMON SENSE! This theory is just ridiculous and insulting. And trust me, I am FAR from stupid.

[edit on 17-7-2009 by AliensExist]

[edit on 17-7-2009 by AliensExist]



posted on Jul, 17 2009 @ 04:34 PM
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reply to post by aleon1018
 


Woah, that is very interesting about dying and be replaced by a "clone" of sorts".....

I had a few times sworn I had died, "about 4 times" by being drugged by people while drinking alcohol.....only to show up at the same hospital a few months later and the doctors freaking right out, like total SHOCK that I was standing there....in another thread, there are a few of us with some whacked out medical experiences..... I will get the link... I have wondered sooo many times why docotrs are so freaked out when I am around, and why when I was chocking on my own phlem with phnemonia, my ex boyfrined had to litterally FORCE my mother to take me tothe hospital, only to have the doctors freak out wispering in the corner and then not really doing anything besides putting me on a resperator for half an hour and giving me some blue pill.....I have asked others about their treatment for phnemonia ( I know spelled wrong twice) and most stayed in the hospital, got prescriptions and a heck of a lot more than half an hour and sent home, with WAYYYY less harsh of a problem than I did..

I didn't mind however, because I avoid the hospital like the black plague and never would have taken a prescription anyways etc...

I can't believe someone else has had the guts to mention some of these things...


www.abovetopsecret.com...



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