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The unborn undying mind of the Buddha

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posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 04:28 PM
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reply to post by OmegaPoint
 


Hmmm... I hope your aware enough to realize that I cannot throw you or help you over that wall. It appears you have found it, have peered over and seen what lies beyond it.

Do you prefer happiness or joy ?
That is a trick question.

I guess I can express that the wall is a delusion.

Try realization and awareness as your goals and not obtainment.
Try not to be vicarious and strive more for the now.

I guess if you reread and ponderer my experience at the willow tree and strip away all that it conveys you may find the path to your own willow tree.

That was not the first time that I experienced joy




posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 04:30 PM
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I'm sorry but I'm not talking about joy, since joy is joy relative to sadness or sorrow.

I'm talking about the unborn undying mind.

Have you had any experience with that state of being?



posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 04:35 PM
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Originally posted by Geladinhu
Here lies your problem I believe.
Those who nothing want, have it all.
And how can you want nothing? Being fully present in the moment.
The wanting is your attachment to the future and probably even to the past.


I think you are totally right. To want means you have nothing but those who want nothing have everything.

I am learning to want less, to be fully in the present , to be in my now because my now is all there is.

However its easier said than done.



posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 04:38 PM
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Originally posted by Mr Green

Originally posted by Geladinhu
Here lies your problem I believe.
Those who nothing want, have it all.
And how can you want nothing? Being fully present in the moment.
The wanting is your attachment to the future and probably even to the past.


I think you are totally right. To want means you have nothing but those who want nothing have everything.

I am learning to want less, to be fully in the present , to be in my now because my now is all there is.

However its easier said than done.


Actually, not necessarily.
It's only difficult to do it if you keep saying it.


[edit on 13-7-2009 by Geladinhu]



posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 04:39 PM
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reply to post by OmegaPoint
 


LOL wow you can fully ponder what I've and others have presented in two minutes.

Reread your thread 10 times do the imagery on the experience of my willow tree,meditate get some sleep and reread it.



posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 04:46 PM
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Well I just read your signature, and perhaps the truth is there is no escape, not even from life itself, which presents itself now, through the eternal now, as all there is, and from that perspective, the unborn undying mind is the only mind, and the ordinary mind, and the one who is aware right now, unclouded by any judgements or distinctions, even between life and death, which is an absurd distinction, since there is nothing that is not.



posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 04:50 PM
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I'd like to share my ideas concerning peace.
This is one thing of which I have struggled for a while.
Since I started my spiritual path, I have had serious depressions.
And every time the depression came back it came stronger and deeper.
Each time it came I felt the urge to be in peace, I felt like I was losing it completely because peace was everything that I had not.

But since I finally "got it", I think I understand better the role of peace.
This may be extremely personal, but it may be not.

I will use surfing as an analogy.
To surf is to be happy.
But surfing involves three continuing stages.
1) Paddling (Struggle)
2) Waiting for the wave (Peace)
3) Riding the wave (Joy/Challenge)

Peace is hella good when you have struggled a lot. But it gets tedious if it is just peace. A challenge is needed sooner or later. And with the challenge, struggle comes. With the struggle peace comes. Happiness for me is a cycle and not a constancy. Peace is part of the cycle. On the other hand, tranquility is always present, with few exceptions (if you get wiped out by a huge wave it's hard to maintain tranquility but its easy to rise again to the surface if you can maintain it).

Don't know if that will make sense to anyone.



posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 04:58 PM
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reply to post by Geladinhu
 


LOL that was awesome.

I have no peace only joy



posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 05:18 PM
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Originally posted by OmegaPoint



Well I just read your signature


Are you sure ?


and perhaps the truth is there is no escape


No... there is nothing to escape ...if your aware.

If your deluded there is a world to escape.

You are so blinded by the phrase "the undying mind" that you are missing what we are conveying....

If you boil it down ...

Were saying catch an wave and bite a tree. LOL

Joy is derived from within.

Start again...



posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 05:24 PM
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How often do you guys like feeling depressed?

You all make this sound too easy. Here I am preparing to subject myself to greater and greater hardship.

What happens when I leave happiness and joy, and take on suffering, this time trying not to wince and retreat again?



posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 05:27 PM
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I know there's joy in non-seeking non-grasping, but again, that's not what I'm talking about. Joy is a feeling. The unborn undying mind is a state of being, and awareness, of being in eternity, which is beyond feeling content.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to belittle your Joy, I too want to experience joy, and I do, but if what I'm beginning to understand about Buddhism is right, it's about liberation, not any feeling or experience, but it is about awareness now, without seeking or grasping at anyting at all, just pure acceptance.

And I don't need to be taught here, anything.

This is a mutual discussion, a mutual exploration, of what that state of being means, signifies or how it can be experienced or realized.



posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 05:31 PM
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reply to post by bsbray11
 


I think you'll come to discover that there's a part of you, which can take on any amount of it, and successfully contain it, and so you'll eventually come to the end of that, to find the corresponding joy on the other side of suffering.

"The more thata suffering carves into your being, the more joy you can contain." ~ Khalil Gibran, from "The Prophet"



posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 05:34 PM
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Originally posted by bsbray11
How often do you guys like feeling depressed?

You all make this sound too easy. Here I am preparing to subject myself to greater and greater hardship.

What happens when I leave happiness and joy, and take on suffering, this time trying not to wince and retreat again?


I don't like being depressed at all!
But it happens, and I accept whatever happens.
The big trick that I had to learn about depression is the more you try to get out of it, the more you get in it.

I don't understand exactly what you are proposing or thinking.
You want to dive into suffering just for the experience, is that is?
I'd say that every experience is valid.



By the way, I'm reading your thread on BTS that you posted on my thread.



posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 05:34 PM
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Originally posted by Geladinhu
Actually, not necessarily.
It's only difficult to do it if you keep saying it.


[edit on 13-7-2009 by Geladinhu]


Thanks I know but I just have this nagging voice saying hey this is too hard, to be in your now constantly is just too hard, when yes you are right we should just silence that voice and just enter our now totally.

The mind has had many many years to perfect its hold. It knows exactly how to hold us back, but slowly its magic wears off.



[edit on 13-7-2009 by Mr Green]



posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 05:35 PM
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reply to post by OmegaPoint
 


And when I find that joy I only need hop right back into hardship, unless I want to die.



posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 05:36 PM
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I posted on the thread Illusions Seeing Past the Mask of Reality a passage from a great mystic on this, and the Dalai Lama's actual experience of it.
How he perceived the void and emptiness one day Omega and all. I am sure it will from his experience and the Text he researched and meditated on answer your question.

I was doing a deity meditation last night with a Tibetan Buddhist Lama, and he was talking about meditation at the end particularly "Shi Ney" or "Mindfulness" which is different from the Tantric form found in Deity Meditation.

He said that as you have read, and thought about but not yet experienced that we are already there, but the mind is always going to the future, the past, comparing, analyzing and has afflictive emotions like guilt or not believing it could be there already.... rather the EGO does this as its own existence is only based on us not being in an enlightened state.
To be enlightened you have to let go of the ego and "You" and "them" etc totally first.

Mindfulness is the best way for this, and as stated on this thread by other posters, just be present in the now, formal meditation IS important sitting every day, just 3 simple rules:

Relax,

Now,

Love

This bring's together Wisdom and Bodhicitta.
A sort of half tantra method.

When not sitting and doing things be in the beginning just Now and Relax as we have aversions and such like, likes and dislikes to work, objects, people etc in the begining. Over time the mind of Buddha you allude to is noticed more, or the obstructions diminish, and is often described as "One Taste".

No matter what is happening, or you are doing everything is the same you find yourself fully present in the NOW, are fully Relaxed (no neurosis or grasping) and LOVE rises and find you have great compassion even if an person is hitting or shouting at you, as the only things that truly exist are

Now and Love (unconditional)

The rest is a trick of the ego..... which blocks this simple truth.

Last night the Tibetan Lama also mentioned waves and the sea, saying thoughts are like waves, seem separate if you hold on to them, or push away the thought, or become the thought.

Over time if you start observing your own mind and Now and RELAX eventually the mind becomes like a calm sea/lake and the waves get smaller and smaller until you rest in the Clarity of the mind no matter what is happening.

Leave all expectations aside, don't push or pull thoughts, just let them happen notice them and let them go, it takes many years to get a very very mindful mind, however after only 6 months of daily practice real experiences can occur, real change can start taking place.

In my own Practice I am after many years of being quite mindful in the "Action" way now I really appreciating sitting down and meditating more for quite long periods, though it is best in the beggining to do it 4 or 5 times a day for 10 mins each, rtaher than trying long periods in one go.

The "action" way for me has been when you make a cup of tea, seeing the interconnectedness of it, realizing Cows made the milk and being grateful, that Grass is in the Milk, and that worms and earth all worked so hard and made that grass etc...

That the water in the cup of tea is really Clouds.

If tying laces up realizing "I am now tying my laces" rather than having a fantasy world of what where and what I IMAGINE may happen later.

Below are two teaching from Professor Robert Thurman a close friend of the Dalai Lama, and the foremost translator of his books and works, Who has kindly allowed me to Post these on ATS media for everyones benefit.

An very accomplished Buddhist teacher on Buddhas teachings of what is reality, and how to get to his experience yourself. Buddhas Four Noble Truths by Bob Thurman 2 short Videos with His Students in Bhutan.

I hope it and what I posted/Linked in the first paragraph from the Dalai Lamas experience help you in this realization for yourself omega.....

Drop the expectations as Dr Suzuki said when asked what being enlightened was like


Oh just the same as you, just a couple of inch's higher of the floor


And anyone who has had any experiences may understand this more than those who don't...

No expectations,

Let go of past and Future, Mine , His, Yours, why, When, How

Let Go

Relax

Relax a bit more

NOW

Love

It will happen a lot sooner than you might imagine.


Love and light to all

Elf

Prof Robert Thurmans Home Page Much more Audio Visual there

Robert thurmans Explanation to his students on this is very very good and very mind opening even for advanced practitioners or those who think they have "Read" and know this subject well.

Part 1 of the Four Noble Truths as taught by the Buddha

(click to open player in new window)


Part 2 of the Four Noble Truths as taught by Buddha

(click to open player in new window)


Edit for spelling.

[edit on 13-7-2009 by MischeviousElf]



posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 05:40 PM
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reply to post by Geladinhu
 


Re-reading that thread is actually what made me remember there is still a war going on, a war that is not logical or even sane.

When I was in high school I was constantly depressed, and then I read somewhere there's a Buddhist technique of simply focusing on the feeling in your gut and accepting it and I did that, and I still feel it but it doesn't bother me anymore. And the more time passes I find it actually a very beautiful feeling, like the color blue is beautiful. I like to cry, I like to sense tragedy and remember what it is to be good, or to suffer tragedy.



posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 05:43 PM
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reply to post by MischeviousElf
 



And anyone who has had any experiences may understand this more than those who dont...

No expectations,

Let go of past and Future, Mine , his, Yours, why, When

Let Go

Relax

Relax a bit more

NOW

Love

It will happen a lot sooner than you might imagine.


Elf I love this! I really do it means so much to me.

Elf you are so aware it never fails to amaze me.



posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 05:43 PM
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Originally posted by OmegaPoint
I know there's joy in non-seeking non-grasping, but again, that's not what I'm talking about. Joy is a feeling. The unborn undying mind is a state of being, and awareness, of being in eternity, which is beyond feeling content.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to belittle your Joy, I too want to experience joy, and I do, but if what I'm beginning to understand about Buddhism is right, it's about liberation, not any feeling or experience, but it is about awareness now, without seeking or grasping at anyting at all, just pure acceptance.

And I don't need to be taught here, anything.

This is a mutual discussion, a mutual exploration, of what that state of being means, signifies or how it can be experienced or realized.


Being includes feeling, thinking, wanting, needing, etc.
Being includes everything.
Liberation is being able to be, to include (permit) all and not be attached to anything in particular.
Liberation is about experiencing at the fullest.
To be liberated is to experience reality directly, without auto-imposed barriers. (In reality there are no barriers)

Liberation is the "way". Experience and feeling is the "goal".

That's my take at least.



posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 05:52 PM
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I think that you are right, except for the goal part, there is no goal, just being.

I think the best way to think about this notion of an unborn undying mind, is to consider that everything comes and goes, not only the content of our mind, and our experiences, our good times, struggles, sufferings and joys, but also the physical manifestations of form, which arise spontaneously from nothing, return to it, and then arise again, and that this is, all of it, happening against a timeless, and changless background, and so why must we identify our "self" with the content or experience of the mind, or for that matter, with the ever changing "world" around us? It all falls apart, including our own body, and our ability to surf, or enjoy sitting under the willow and eating a willow seed. It all comes and goes, but there is something in the midst of it all, which remains and is eternal. That is the unborn undying mind, being one with that.

Now just to BE one with it, and to accept it as it is and is not, a flow, timeless, spaceless, infinite.



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