I Found It!

yet, i do under/innerstand that there is a force of malevolency and there have been several people involved with not keeping it "real" with humanity about the issues and realities it faces...

Absolutely. This is true of all large organizations. Unfortunately, there will always be selfish individuals who gain access to different organizations for less than ethical purposes, and Freemasonry is no exception. With millions of members, it would be unrealistic to claim that all Masons would be good men, just like we couldn�t say that all Christians or all Lions Club members are good men.
But most Masons attempt to live out the teachings of their fraternity. It is for men like this that Freemasonry was created. Those who refuse to live according to Masonic principles are Masons in name only. They may have a membership card in their wallet, but the difference between a member and a Mason is a large one. The 19th century Masonic author and philosopher Albert Pike said it well: �We don�t need more men in Masonry; we need more Masonry in men!�

Earthscum said:

�Even other masons gave me the impression that you would be in your late 60's before you were able to hit 33rd degree.�

Technically, one has to have the 32� for 4 years minimum in order to be honored with the decoration of Knight Commander of the Court of Honor. After one receives the KCCH, he may receive the 33� in another 4 years. There is no waiting period in most states between the third degree and 32�, so, at least in theory, if one became a Mason at age 21 and joined the Scottish Rite, he could receive the 33� by age 30.
Yet this often takes longer. The 33� is an honor bestowed by the Supreme Council in recognition of outstanding services and leadership. I do not hold the 33�, only the 32�. In general, most 33� recipients have been members for 15+ plus years.
P.S.: I just responded to your private message.

�I could only assume, though, that there are some 'pure christian' lodges that don't accept any other belief... alot of the christian nation seem to think that it's all their way and that everyone should believe as they do (crusades that never really ended).�

It is considered unmasonic to discriminate upon the basis of race, religion, or creed. Any Lodge refusing to admit someone based on religious discrimination is liable to have its Charter revoked.

RR says:

�Masonic Light you are treading on some very thin ice my friend. Have you forgotten your oath as a Fellowcraft? Anything about writing, printing, painting, cutting, carving, stamping, staining, marking or ingraving ring any bells??�

Actually, that�s not in the Fellow Craft degree anyway, it�s in the Apprentice degree. That refers to the ancient traditions of the stone masons. The original secrets of Freemasonry consisted of the trade secrets of the stonemason. They were �Free Masons� which distinguished them from serf masons, who were bound to the manor in the system of feudalism. Free Masons were obligated to keep secret their knowledge of architecture in order to ensure the survival of the guild.
After Freemasonry officially adopted the philosophy of the Enlightenment, it drew the wrath of the Roman Church, and was forced underground in some countries, lest its members be persecuted as �heretics� by the Inquisition. Herein lies Masonry�s modern birth as a �secret society�.
In democratic nations, Masonry may exist openly, our �secrets� being the traditional ones only. There is nothing secret about Masonic philosophy and history, and Masonic authors are regularly recognized for their contributions to the fraternity. Highly esteemed Masonic authors include Albert Pike, Albert Mackey, Dr. Joseph Fort Newton, and Henry Coil.
Masonic scholars are encouraged by the fraternity to research Freemasonry, and write books and articles on it for the education of both the fraternity and the public at large who are interested in the topic.

Fiat Lvx.

Originally posted by Masonic Light

...just because men are Masons they will agree with each other. In reality, this usually isn't the case...

A fine example of this would be Alexander Hamilton and Aaron Burr. We all know how that disagreement between two Masonic Brothers ended, don't we?

Originally posted by RR

Masonic Light you are treading on some very thin ice my friend. Have you forgotten your oath as a Fellowcraft? Anything about writing, printing, painting, cutting, carving, stamping, staining, marking or ingraving ring any bells??

RR, as a 32� Scottish Rite Mason myself I haven't seen Masonic Light print anything that would go against his obligation to Masonry. Everything he has written is public knowledge to those who would seek it, so what is the problem? Actually I feel he is doing a fine job

K-Sol

im just curious....do Masons have an enemy?

the catholic church / the pope, is the enemy of masonry i presume

also just curious; can black men become scottish rite masons or do they have to go prince hall?


also; does becoming a mason mean one cannot express themselves honestly and democratically to others who aren't members?

also; thanks for the shared knowledge it is much appreciated...

and one last thing; do masons have the ability to disagree with their fellow members; even those of a "higher degree"?

Man, it seems that you're asking alot of the questions that many Masons would just LOVE to answer. lol!

Originally posted by NaturalDisaster
im just curious....do Masons have an enemy?

The Evangelical Christians don't much care for us

Originally posted by foolishbeing

also just curious; can black men become scottish rite masons...?

do masons have the ability to disagree with their fellow members; even those of a "higher degree"?

We just confered the 32� on a Brother of color less then 6 mos ago here. As far as disagreeing with other Brothers please check look into the duel between Aaron Burr and Alexander Hamilton, both Masonic Brothers. There were also Masonic Brothers on both side of the American Civil War. Even though they were killing each other they were civil to each other as can be seen of the statue Friend to Friend and the Gettysburg Memorial in Pennsylvania. Read about it here

One more thing, there is no "Higher" degree then the 3�.

Man Killed During Initiation at Masonic Lodge; Masons Say Gun Not Sanctioned Part of Rite

By Frank Eltman Associated Press Writer
Published: Mar 9, 2004






PATCHOGUE, N.Y. (AP) - A man was killed during a ceremony at a Masonic temple when another member fired a gun loaded with real bullets instead of the expected blanks and shot him in the head, police said Tuesday.
A 76-year-old man alleged to have fired the shot was arrested ap.tbo.com...


It (Satan) is that Angel who was proud enough to believe himself God; brave enough to buy his independence at the price of eternal suffering and torture; beautiful enough to have adored himself in full divine light; strong enough to still reign in darkness amidst agony, and to have made himself a throne out of this inextinguishable pyre.

Brother Eliphas Levi
Historie de la Magie
Pages 16-17


And our expression, that our Lodges extend upwards to the Heavens, comes from the Persian and Druidic custom of having to their Temples no roofs but the sky.

Illustrious Albert Pike 33� '
Morals and Dogma, page 366.
www.freemasonrywatch.org...



'Jubela, Jubelo, Jubelum'


First, Jubela "that my throat had been cut across, my tongue torn out, and my body buried in the rough sands of the sea, at low water mark, where the tide ebbs and flows twice in twenty-four hours, ere I had been accessory to the death of so good a man as our Grand Master, Hiram Abiff!"






The second, Jubelo "that my left breast had been torn open and my heart and vitals taken from thence and thrown over my left shoulder, carried into the valley of Jehosaphat, and there to become a prey to the wild beasts of the field and vultures of the air, ere I had conspired the death of so good a man as our Grand Master, Hiram Abiff!"






The third, Jubelum "that my body had been severed in two in the midst, and divided to the north and south, my bowels burnt to ashes in the center, and the ashes scattered by the four winds of heaven, that there might not the least track or remembrance remain among men, or Masons, of so vile and perjured a wretch as I am; ah, Jubela and Jubelo, it was I that struck him harder than you both. It was I that gave him the fatal blow; it was I that killed him outright;"



'The Legend of the Three Ruffians'

The 'Blood Oaths' for the 1st? 2nd? and 3rd?..
www.freemasonrywatch.org...

NaturalDisaster asks:

�im just curious....do Masons have an enemy?�

Throughout history, Freemasonry has had several enemies. Probably, the earliest was the Roman Catholic Church, but it must be emphasized that Masonry and the Church are no longer enemies. The Church has officially apologized for the Inquisition, and its persecution of non-Catholics.
However, even though our respective organizations are no longer actual foes, the Roman Church officially forbids Catholics from becoming Masons. Instead, they have instituted an all-Catholic fraternal order similar to Masonry called Knights of Columbus.
The other two major organizations that became enemies of Masonry were the Nazi and Communist Parties. Nazi and Communist officials banned Freemasonry by law, and persecuted members. The only exception that I�m aware of is Cuba, where Freemasonry is still legal, but Castro�s government nevertheless frowns upon it.

�can black men become scottish rite masons or do they have to go prince hall?�

There are black men in both mainstream Scottish Rite and Prince Hall Scottish Rite. This depends on whether their Blue Lodge is mainstream or Prince Hall.
In the 1870�s, Brother Albert Pike, Grand Commander of the Southern Jurisdiction USA of the Scottish Rite, revised the degree rituals, and presented a copy of them to the Prince Hall Supreme Council of the Scottish Rite. Since this time, Prince Hall and mainstream Scottish Rite have used basically the same rituals.

�also; does becoming a mason mean one cannot express themselves honestly and democratically to others who aren't members?�

Becoming a Mason, at least in theory, should cause the exact opposite to occur. The fraternity expects its members to always express themselves honestly and democratically. If a member becomes in gross violation of Masonic principles, he is subject to being expelled. The entire point of Masonry during the Enlightenment was to provide a place to undertake moral regeneration without respect to established churches, who at the time were basically tyrants. Immorality, dishonesty, and the like are contrary to Masonic philosophy, and put a member at odds with the fraternity.

�and one last thing; do masons have the ability to disagree with their fellow members; even those of a "higher degree"?�

hehehe...if you only knew! It�s often impossible to get Masons to agree on whether or not to repave the Lodge parking lot, much less anything important.
Masonic meetings follow Robert�s Rules of Order. A member will make a motion (in this example, to repave the parking lot). If another Brother seconds the motion, it goes on the floor for debate. Those in favor of the motion give their opinions, and those against it give their opinions. Afterwards, when everyone who wishes to speak has spoken, the Master calls for a vote. If the majority favors the motion, it carries. If not, it fails. All members who hold the third degree may make motions, debate, and vote. A third degree Mason has all the rights that a 33� Mason has. All Masons meet on the Level, in equality, one is not superior to the others. Even the Worshipful Master, who presides, is only the first among equals, he having been elected by his brethren to serve in that office for one year.

Fiat Lvx.


[Edited on 15-3-2004 by Masonic Light]

Originally posted by KingSolomon
We just confered the 32� on a Brother of color less then 6 mos ago here.

One more thing, there is no "Higher" degree then the 3�.

32 is a larger number than 3, but the 32� is not a "higher degree" than the 3�.
An analogy I've used before here is a rope. A rope that is 33 feet long is not "higher" than a rope that's 3 feet long.
In Masonry, "rank" comes with being elected to serve as an officer, it has nothing to do with whatever degrees one may have accumulated.

Fiat Lvx.

[Edited on 15-3-2004 by Masonic Light]

I see. But do you have to obtain the 3rd degree before you can the 32nd?

And if so, would it not also be true that the 32nd degree Mason would have access to more esoteric knowledge than one who has reached the 3rd degree?

Originally posted by Masonic Light
There is nothing secret about Masonic philosophy and history, and Masonic authors are regularly recognized for their contributions to the fraternity. Highly esteemed Masonic authors include Albert Pike, Albert Mackey, Dr. Joseph Fort Newton, and Henry Coil.
Masonic scholars are encouraged by the fraternity to research Freemasonry, and write books and articles on it for the education of both the fraternity and the public at large who are interested in the topic.

Fiat Lvx.

Maybe you could enlighten us as to the stories, perhaps facts, I have seen the Albert Pike was connected to the Ku Klu Klan, which I believe was the new name for the Knights of the Golden Circle. I am trying to remember why they had to change their name, but I seem to remember either ku or klux being Greek words.

Freemasonry, that is to say Organized Freemasonry practices the big lie technique. More to the point organized Freemasonry has perfected the big lie technique. They term this doublespeak ' diverting the discourse'. In regard to Confederate general, slaver, British spy, convicted Confederate war criminal, Sovereign Grand Commander of the Supreme Council 33rd Degree, Ku Klux Klan ritual designer, Ku Klux Klan Chief Judicial Officer and Arkansas Ku Klux Klan Grand Dragon it is necessary to add some superlatives on to the term 'divert the discourse', because that opaque term doesn't nearly come close to describing the effort and tactics it has and is employing to cover-up, obscure, deflect, and divert about Pike's leading roll in the KKK's creation.
Please excuse us if we seem to go to some length to explain what exactly organized Freemasonry with all it's thousands of internet sites, millions of members, and billions of net worth is doing in regard to the Albert Pike issue because one has to be very specific when dealing with the masters of parsing. In fact it is likely the case that Freemasonry provided the initial instruction to intelligence agencies on the most effective methods of using disinformation.

www.freemasonrywatch.org...

I think he was the CO-Founder of the KKK, which was apparently something different in the beginning than what it is now.

And 'Ku Klux' comes from 'Kuklos', which means to Encircle The Sun.

I'll quote what an N.O.I. Mason told me one time(this is only part of it):

As for the bit about the KKK, they teach falsehoods that are easily disproven, while the NOI teaches the truth in life.

Also, pike wrote many books that prove what the NOI says, the KKK also proves it because they were formed to contain that secret, that is the greatness of the original man and woman.

Kuklos, means circle of the Sun. It can be seen as encirlcing the sun, keeping the sun contained, limited to the confines of the circle.

...Not to mention that the KKK boys, being an offshoot of Masonry and sharing many tenants with it, would have to acknowledge one who knows his methods of interaction and communication, he is sworn by oath.

For another clue; go back to my first post in this thread(the 17th post).




ONE

Tamahu asks:

�I see. But do you have to obtain the 3rd degree before you can the 32nd?�

Yes. The third degree, being the degree of Master Mason, makes one a full member of the fraternity with voting rights. Only the three degrees of Ancient Masonry are conferred in the Lodge. After this, if a brother chooses, he may join the Scottish or York Rites, which confer additional degrees.

�And if so, would it not also be true that the 32nd degree Mason would have access to more esoteric knowledge than one who has reached the 3rd degree?�

Not necessarily. In general, all of the additional degrees are elaborations on the first three, and practically any Mason who requests these degrees will be allowed to receive them.
The so-called �higher degrees� of the Scottish Rite are indeed much more elaborate, philosophical, and mystical than the first three degrees, but the only esoteric knowledge presented in them is composed of the mundane: i.e., the traditional passwords, handshakes, etc., which belong to the different degrees. The philosophy and mysticism found in the Rite are easily found in materials published to the public, most notably in the works of Plato, Plotinus, and John Locke. Technically, a non-Mason could study these materials and be more proficient in this branch of learning than many Masons. I personally had studied Masonry in depth before I joined the fraternity, and was already familiar with the majority of the Craft�s esoteric teachings.

DontTreadOnMe says:

�Maybe you could enlighten us as to the stories, perhaps facts, I have seen the Albert Pike was connected to the Ku Klu Klan, which I believe was the new name for the Knights of the Golden Circle. I am trying to remember why they had to change their name, but I seem to remember either ku or klux being Greek words.�

A popular slander against Brother Albert Pike was that he founded the Ku Klux Klan. In reality, there is no evidence whatsoever that he was involved with the Klan in any manner.
The Ku Klux Klan was formed by former Confederate General Nathan Bedford Forrest soon after the Civil War came to an end. This was originally a fraternal order of Confederate veterans which functioned as a social club. Eventually, the rank and file of the Klan�s membership began to engage in acts of terrorism against both northerners and people of color who exercised their new rights. Forrest repudiated such violence, and disbanded the organization. The terrorists in the group continued it anyway.
It is unlikely that Pike would have supported the original Klan, and he certainly would have disapproved of the terrorist organization it would eventually become. Pike was actually an early pioneer for minority rights; he himself had �inherited� a few household slaves from his father-in-law, which he freed, hiring them as house servants in return for wages (Robert E. Lee also freed his slaves well before the Emancipation Proclamation). Pike also spoke to the Confederate Congress on behalf of slaves, urging the Confederacy to phase out slavery over a period of twenty years, and proposed a law outlawing the slave trade immediately.
In his younger days, Pike spoke out against Negro Masonry, but in his mature years he changed his stance, and was the first white southern Masonic leader to lend legitimacy to the Prince Hall Rites.
Pike was also a tireless crusader for Native American rights, having established several Indian Masonic Lodges. Pike himself resigned his command in the Confederate Army in protest of the Confederacy�s breaking of a treaty with the Creek Nation.
Pike also appointed Jewish Masons to high offices in the Supreme Council of the Scottish Rite.
These things considered, it is unlikely that Pike would have been sympathetic to any Klan organization (Pike authored around 80 books, and never mentioned the Klan anywhere in them). The KKK was (and is) anti-Semitic, anti-Negro, and anti-Indian. Since its adoption of Nazi principles, it has also become anti-Masonic.
You are correct that the KKK�s name is derived from the Greek �kuklos�, meaning �circle�.

Fiat Lvx.


[Edited on 15-3-2004 by Masonic Light]

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Mason's aren't "secret" and the user (Freemason) is one of ATS's legendary nutters.

heh heh yeah and he probably drives an old cop car with painted sides to make it look like a cop car, and if he's really pathetic, he probably has the bubbles on top of his car to make it look like he's an actual police officer.


Let's ad cb radio geek to the list too! lol

thats interesting about the kkk; so they were created with the idea of being a clan that circles the sun/son. i would put the pieces together that the son is referred to as the afroasiatic "black" men and women "new" to "america". i wonder did these founders think they were created to be of benefit to society and their environment; in a positive light...


thanks for answering those questions i have wanted to speak to an elder mason about such things; yet my grandfather passed away 27 months ago. i'll be honest i have seriously and do think of becoming associated with a group of people who "honestly" adhere to brotherhood of man, and singular unity under the divinity of all manifestation...

in california i recieved a petition to associate;
yet, now that i live in the south i was told, by a mason in his/their/the lodge that i would have to go prince hall. im sure there is no absolute to any rule so i wanted to inquire about this; for it did raise a thought of dis-integration/ignorance/lack of love for lifes necessary principles and values...
actually i would say there are a lot of disinformants out there as well that portray wisdom in a negative light because they are foolish in their ways; but then again, thats why my ats avatars name is foolish being, for arent we all and the wisest being the most foolish,.. a rhetorical question need not provide a response; just rambling a little, pardon...

but about this projected expression of negativity placed or percieved by others uppon free/masonry; how does one respond to such things after becoming a mason, other than being tightlipped; is it something that is "just" for the sake of being, or do masons actively attempt to shine light on persecutions of their own/others...

you know that was a non-valid question so it can be taken as rhetorical as well; the dark will extuingish itself allowing the light to fill it's void....

[Edited on 16-3-2004 by foolishbeing]

but about this projected expression of negativity placed or percieved by others uppon free/masonry; how does one respond to such things after becoming a mason, other than being tightlipped; is it something that is "just" for the sake of being, or do masons actively attempt to shine light on persecutions of their own/others...

Personally, I think the answer lies in being informed. The vast majority of Masons do not even know that the fraternity is controversial among some non-Masons, much less how to answer their charges.
When Masonry is singled out as an "enemy", it's usually because of one of two reasons: political and religious.
The only political stance made by Masonry is government by consent of the governed. But even this seemingly innocent viewpoint has come under attack by the Nazis, Communists, and Fascists, who have systematically eliminated Freemasonry (and Freemasons) in nations where they have assumed power.
Most of our critics use the religious argument, and this is generally levelled against us by fundamentalists. Fundamentalists, whether Christian or Muslim, believe that they themselves are the only ones in possession of divine knowledge, and that all who disagree with them are basically hellbound.
This extremist view conflicts with Masonry, wich opens its doors to men of all faiths. The fundamentalist Christian believes it is a "sin" for one of their own to fellowship with a Jew or a Muslim if such Jew or Muslim does not convert after being badgered. Masonry, on the other hand, claims the right of each person to their own beliefs, and that all men are brothers regardless of their religion.
Also, some critics accuse Masons of being "occultists." In some cases this is technically true, but not in the sense our critics claim.
When Masonic authors use the word "occult", they refer to the true meaning of word, i.e., investigation into esoteric and mystical philosophical doctrines. The charge that Masons are somehow "devil worshipers" is absurd; besides, belief in the devil is held by Christians. Masons who are not Christians do not even believe in the devil.
In order to back up thei arguments, they usually will misquote Pike, Mackey, and Hall. I've rad literally hundreds of anti-Masonic books and articles, and hav yet to find one that quoted these gentlemen accurately, or in context.

Severl years ago, Bro. Arturo DeHoyos, 33�, and Dr. S. Brent Morris, 33�, authored an excellent book called "Is It True What They Say About Freemasonry?" It addresses "Jahbulon", "Lucifer", and the other arguments our critics use. The entire book can now be read online at www.srmason-sj.org...
The homepage is just the first chapter. Scrolling down to the bottom of the page, you will find the link to Chapter 2.

Fiat Lvx.

Originally posted by foolishbeing

...in california i recieved a petition to associate;
yet, now that i live in the south i was told, by a mason in his/their/the lodge that i would have to go prince hall. im sure there is no absolute to any rule so i wanted to inquire about this; for it did raise a thought of dis-integration/ignorance/lack of love for lifes necessary principles and values...

There are, unfortunately, some in the Fraternity that believe "Together as Brothers but separate in color". Some of these prejudices go back a long way (especially in the South) and will take a long time to change. They can and will, nevertheless, change with time. They cannot, however, be changed from without. My personal belief is that a Brother is a Brother. I see not the color of his skin but the beauty and kindness in his heart. A good man is a good man no matter what the color of his skin is.

My recommendation to you would be that if you wish to become a Mason and the only way that you can do it where you currently reside is to join the Prince Hall then do it and help to spread the gospel of Brotherly Love, Relief and Truth.

K-Sol

Originally posted by Masonic Light
A popular slander against Brother Albert Pike was that he founded the Ku Klux Klan. In reality, there is no evidence whatsoever that he was involved with the Klan in any manner.

The Ku Klux Klan was formed by former Confederate General Nathan Bedford Forrest soon after the Civil War came to an end. This was originally a fraternal order of Confederate veterans which functioned as a social club. Eventually, the rank and file of the Klan�s membership began to engage in acts of terrorism against both northerners and people of color who exercised their new rights. Forrest repudiated such violence, and disbanded the organization. The terrorists in the group continued it anyway.

It is unlikely that Pike would have supported the original Klan, and he certainly would have disapproved of the terrorist organization it would eventually become. Pike was actually an early pioneer for minority rights; he himself had �inherited� a few household slaves from his father-in-law, which he freed, hiring them as house servants in return for wages (Robert E. Lee also freed his slaves well before the Emancipation Proclamation). Pike also spoke to the Confederate Congress on behalf of slaves, urging the Confederacy to phase out slavery over a period of twenty years, and proposed a law outlawing the slave trade immediately.

In his younger days, Pike spoke out against Negro Masonry, but in his mature years he changed his stance, and was the first white southern Masonic leader to lend legitimacy to the Prince Hall Rites.

Pike was also a tireless crusader for Native American rights, having established several Indian Masonic Lodges. Pike himself resigned his command in the Confederate Army in protest of the Confederacy�s breaking of a treaty with the Creek Nation.

Pike also appointed Jewish Masons to high offices in the Supreme Council of the Scottish Rite.
These things considered, it is unlikely that Pike would have been sympathetic to any Klan organization (Pike authored around 80 books, and never mentioned the Klan anywhere in them). The KKK was (and is) anti-Semitic, anti-Negro, and anti-Indian. Since its adoption of Nazi principles, it has also become anti-Masonic.

You are correct that the KKK�s name is derived from the Greek �kuklos�, meaning �circle�.

Fiat Lvx.

So, Albert Pike actually did write the following...

freemasonry.bcy.ca...


"Prince Hall Lodge was as regular a Lodge as any Lodge created by competent authority. It had a perfect right to establish other Lodges and make itself a Mother Lodge. I am not inclined to meddle in the matter. I took my obligations from white men, not from negroes. When I have to accept negroes as brothers or leave masonry, I shall leave it. Better let the thing drift."



As owner-publisher of the Memphis, Tennessee, Daily Appeal, Albert Pike wrote in an editorial on April 16, 1868:

"With negroes for witnesses and jurors, the administration of justice becomes a blasphemous mockery. A Loyal League of negroes can cause any white man to be arrested, and can prove any charges it chooses to have made against him. ...The disenfranchised people of the South ... can find no protection for property, liberty or life, except in secret association.... We would unite every white man in the South, who is opposed to negro suffrage, into one great Order of Southern Brotherhood, with an organization complete, active, vigorous, in which a few should execute the concentrated will of all, and whose very existence should be concealed from all but its members."

...to later on change his stance, before writing Morals and Dogma?