professors prove the cradle of western civilization developed along what is today Bulgarian BlackSea

I found this interesting article on standartnews.com today and thought it would be a good idea to share it with you

Prehistoric History Constantly Changes Contemporary Views

Gold discovered near Varna is about 3000 years older than the pyramids in Egypt; professors prove the cradle of western civilization developed along what is today Bulgarian Black Sea coast.

An image of the Black Sea as it might have looked like before the Flood A sensational hypothesis by a Bulgarian professor and two American scholars is about to shed unexpected light into the historical theories of humankind origin.
According to the aired version, the ancient civilization of the Kimerians which emerged and developed on the Black Sea coast near today Varna was the predecessor of the Sumerian culture which developed in the East after the Flood which is dated to have happened about 8000 BC. Those of the Kimerians who stayed in what is today Bulgarian land, later grew into the culture and civilization of the Thracians. The hypothesis is backed by solid facts and research results.
The authors of the hypothesis are Prof Petko Dimitrov, leader of Marine Geology and Archeology Department in the Institute of Oceanology with the Bulgarian Academy of Science in Varna and the eminent American scholars William Ryan and Walter Pitman from Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory in the University of Columbia.
The scholars' suggestions are based on the comparative analysis of Neolithic findings discovered near Varna and Durankulak, both in northeastern Bulgaria as well as underwater research in the mouth of the Provadiya River, northeastern Bulgaria. Prehistoric settlements were discovered there underwater. All these facts are more than suggestive that the nowadays Bulgarian Black Sea coast might have once been the cradle of the civilization which in Neolithic times colonized the European Mediterranean coasts and reached today Portuguese Atlantic coasts.
According to recent metallographic analyses carried out by engineers and archaeologists from Varna, the first tools which helped humankind go out of the cave were manufactured near Varna. The first tools found there are by centuries older than those discovered in Egypt and the Middle East. Another proof of this theory is the famous Noah's plate which Prof Petko Dimitrov discovered in the Black Sea in 1985. The most precious about the plate are the 27 unscripted symbols, which according to experts may turn out to be the oldest human script. The contrast study of the symbols and the Sumerian script shows similarity between the two.
The scholars also studied the gold findings from Varna Copper Age necropolis unearthed in 1978. This gold is by about 3000 years older than the Egyptian pyramids and evidences for the oldest civilization on the Bulgarian lands.
So far it was believed the metal founding and forging first appeared in the so-called Fertile Crescent ? the lands between the Nile Rive mouth, through Palestine and hills of Anatolia and the mountains between Iran and the Caspian Sea. The metal works found there of these ancient times are two handfuls. A truck cannot hold all the prehistoric metal objects discovered in Bulgaria. The metal works from the Crescent were made of virgin metal the moulding of which did not require special skills. The metal tools discovered in Bulgaria are products of a developed technical skills like metal forging and moulding in complex closed patterns.

paper.standartnews.com...

[edit on 12-7-2009 by iasenko]

What a great find, and if it pans out to be proven true, could really open up the history books to be rewritten!

I've always thought that the sumerians could not have been the FIRST, but a buildoff of older civilizations which had been advancing for years. It's pretty logical to think that they built up their civilization off of what had come before them, just as we have been doing all along.


So, essentially, the civilization in bulgaria was developing, then the black sea flooding occurred, and they fled into the middle eastern areas? Am I thinking that correctly?

The conventional thinking is that the Sumerian civilization grew out of the Ubaidian culture in Mesopotamia, along with constant influxes of peoples from the north, mainly from the Caspian region or by way of the Zagros mountains.

The Ubaidians aren't given the status of civilization but they did have all the hallmarks of civilization, with a division of labor, settlements, farmings and irrigation, and so on. I believe it's the small population numbers that keep them from earning that honor. It was after a large influx of a northern peoples that they became the "Sumerians", expanding greatly on the Ubaidian culture.

I hope to see more from this research, after all these people had to come from someplace.

Many ancient mysteries are buried deep underneath these lands...

Ancient Bulgarian calendar

The ancient Bulgarian calendar is based on observations of Jupiter (Yankul) and the Sun and is more precise than the modern Western calendar in use today. Under the ancient Bulgarian calendar system, the year had 364 counted days and 1 uncounted day, totalizing 365 days. Every four years, an extra day was inserted and corresponded to the summer solstice. The year was divided in 4 quarters, 52 weeks and 13 months, of which the 13th consists of only 1 day (New Year's Day) and it corresponded to the winter solstice. Therefore, every year, the same date always falls on the same day of the week. This calendar is considered by UNESCO to be the most accurate calendar known.[citation needed]

The calendar was a circle composed by twelve constellations, named after real or mythological animals, and it was used to follow the movement of the sun but most of all of Jupiter (Yankul: the master of time).

In the ancient Bulgarian chronology, there are periods of 3, 10, 12, 17, 19, 21, 30, 47, 50, 53, 300, 600, 4332, etc. ancient Bulgarian years that are used both as denominators and intervals of time. The longest one is of 6328 ancient Bulgarian years. It is mentioned in the fragmentary inscription of Khan Omurtag and refers to the year 823 AD. The text consists of 14 lines, probably the concluding part of a contract between Danube Bulgaria and the Eastern Roman Empire. The inscription is carved with beautiful letters on a marble stone most probably from the capital town of Pliska. Here is what it reads:

“[…of the ruler] the name is [Khan Omurtag Juvigi]. The year of the appearance of the true god was 6328. They made a sacrifice and they swore in the written in the books [mutual contracts]…”

This historic source may be accepted as a proof of the early beginning of the chronology of the Bulgarian calendar. According to the counts of the famous Bulgarian historian Professor Vassil Zlatarski the beginning is the year 5505 BC. Therefore, we can calculate that the year, 2001 AD, is the year 7506 of the ancient Bulgarian chronology. Thus, the Bulgarians are the people with the most ancient system of measuring time – a fact, which indicates their early civilizing force.

en.wikipedia.org...

Also I found a site where you can explore in detail the ancient civilization:

www.ancient-bulgaria.com... dest-people-in-the-alkans/

Originally posted by Jomina
What a great find, and if it pans out to be proven true, could really open up the history books to be rewritten!

I've always thought that the sumerians could not have been the FIRST, but a buildoff of older civilizations which had been advancing for years. It's pretty logical to think that they built up their civilization off of what had come before them, just as we have been doing all along.


So, essentially, the civilization in bulgaria was developing, then the black sea flooding occurred, and they fled into the middle eastern areas? Am I thinking that correctly?

Maybe you are right, maybe you're not ... we still don't know...
And here's something else:

...
The Mayans started their super civilization only 1000 years B.C., meaning more than 3000 years later than the Proto-Bulgarians already used their sophisticated calendar. In spite the fact that there were settlements 10,000 years BC in the same lands, where the Mayans created their civilization, nothing happened until 600 BC, when they suddenly started to build pyramids, use mathematics, astronomy, etc., just out of the blue.

What happened between the 10th millennia BC and 600 BC, and how the Mayan smarted up so brilliantly, to leave a superior civilization, including the famous calendar?

What is very interesting, is that the names of most of the Mayan
Pre-classical settlements, and classical periods, are ending in the word «can», like the Kukulkan, or «khan».

Guess what: Khan was the superior title of the Bulgarian aristocracy – from 6th Millennia BC till 9th Century AD. The forth day in the calendar (k'an) is also very similar to khan.

Itza – the name of the most ancient Mayan people, means in Proto-Bulgarian (itzhi, itzi) – holy. No wonder that the Itza people built one of the greatest holy buildings in Chichen Itza.

Many other parallels could be drawn. I leave that to the historians and linguists to sort it out.
...

bulgarianchronicles.blogspot.com...

[edit on 13-7-2009 by iasenko]

The evidence is far from conclusive that there was catastrophic flooding from the Bosporous into the Black Sea. There's evidence of a submerged organized society, but there's also evidence of such societies in coastal areas around the Mediterranean. They are areas that have featured human populations for millenia. Aquaculture sites are found in Africa, Australia and Europe. Naturally, wherever we live we leave evidence.

Not to dismiss Dimitrov, Pitman or Ryan's findings, but it's worth pointing out that they have sought to prove a cataclysmic flood in the area for some years. Dimitrov's 'Noah's Plate' is an undated, unidentified artifact that could be from any number of cultures and ages. It's presented as being evidence of an unknown proto-language, however there is little consensus. Pitman & Ryan have long supported the idea. Byrd would likely know, but I'm sure they've been connected to some flaky concept elsewhere. They may be associated with Creationism...not sure.

That sea-level rises had an influence on the lives of the related populations isn't under question...it's the claim that a major flood dictated the course of human history. Other studies indicate moderate sea rises...here and here. The National Geographic covered the idea of a 'Black Sea Flood'..."Noah's Flood" Not Rooted in Reality, After All?

Whereas Ryan suggests that agriculture was spread from this one 'civilization' there's evidence of agriculture occurring independently in Africa, China, India and areas of Europe. It seems inevitable that wherever humans settle, they'll begin to exploit wild seed crops and ultimately begin farming them.

The OP article is a speculative adventure in National politics. The underlying claim is that Bulgaria independently surpassed Egypt in technology 3000 years earlier. Coincidentally, the article is from a Bulgarian website written by (what appears to be) a Bulgarian journalist.

Originally posted by Kandinsky
The evidence is far from conclusive that there was catastrophic flooding from the Bosporous into the Black Sea. There's evidence of a submerged organized society, but there's also evidence of such societies in coastal areas around the Mediterranean. They are areas that have featured human populations for millenia. Aquaculture sites are found in Africa, Australia and Europe. Naturally, wherever we live we leave evidence.

Not to dismiss Dimitrov, Pitman or Ryan's findings, but it's worth pointing out that they have sought to prove a cataclysmic flood in the area for some years. Dimitrov's 'Noah's Plate' is an undated, unidentified artifact that could be from any number of cultures and ages. It's presented as being evidence of an unknown proto-language, however there is little consensus. Pitman & Ryan have long supported the idea. Byrd would likely know, but I'm sure they've been connected to some flaky concept elsewhere. They may be associated with Creationism...not sure.

That sea-level rises had an influence on the lives of the related populations isn't under question...it's the claim that a major flood dictated the course of human history. Other studies indicate moderate sea rises...here and here. The National Geographic covered the idea of a 'Black Sea Flood'..."Noah's Flood" Not Rooted in Reality, After All?

Whereas Ryan suggests that agriculture was spread from this one 'civilization' there's evidence of agriculture occurring independently in Africa, China, India and areas of Europe. It seems inevitable that wherever humans settle, they'll begin to exploit wild seed crops and ultimately begin farming them.

The OP article is a speculative adventure in National politics. The underlying claim is that Bulgaria independently surpassed Egypt in technology 3000 years earlier. Coincidentally, the article is from a Bulgarian website written by (what appears to be) a Bulgarian journalist.

Thanks for the answer, It's good to hear/read a differend opinion, As far as i know, the "Noah's plate" is made of sandstone, which makes it impossible to date it with the currently available analytical techniques. Well, I'm far from being an expert on the topic and my only source of information is Internet.. I'll try to find more info on the subject ...

reply to post by iasenko




The "maya" calendar is actually a mayan adapted olmec calender, the olmec also likely brought human sacrifice and the balll game to the the people of central america.

Your quoted 600 bc sudden appearence for the maya is a load hooey.
Thats when the maya came to the forefront of the geopolitical spectrum of the area. The maya didnt just "appear" on the scene. They are just one of a long line of meso american cultures that built on the ideas and beliefs of those that came before them.
The izapa and the monte ablan cultures likely preceeded the olmec or were at least early contemporaries.


the quoted article seems to assert that the bulgarians founded mayan society, please tell me thats not what he was saying even though i know it was.

Thats just rediculous, aside from there being absolutely no evidence for that and the the fact that the actual evidence tells us a comletely different story.


I do believe that the portion of the composite myth that is the biblical flood tradition is a vauge rememberance of the flooding of the black sea basin.
There is some decent evidence for it that is not comming from the "Bulgarian first" bunch.

Like kandinsky said, agriculture appears around the world, independantly and at different times.

It highly unlikey that the "proto bulgarians" gave rise to the sumerians, as there have been people in the area of the euphrates and tigriss rivers for hundreds of thousands of years. And any crops these "proto-bulgarians" might have domesticated in bulgaria likely would not have done so well in the very arid mesopotamia.

Im not at all buying the notion that the cimmerians founded the sumerian cultures.

reply to post by Kandinsky

So what if the Bulgarians speak about those fantastic discoveries??
There is tendency to diminish role of certain nations/tribes in our heritage. Let them speak from time to time...
Maybe to You only the big nations like Germans or Anglosaxsons are authorised to do that...and the Jews of course...
Whats up by the way about australian discoveries?? Any links?? Anyway it seems that it was definitely different kind of society, maybe more concntrated about spirituality, but theres not much left...

Concerning Balkans there are probably mayan style pyramids, and stone balls mentioned here on ats recently . And surely we will see more discoveries soon.

I've found a couple of images of the 'Noah Plate'...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/3df1a60a38c8.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b8f735f78df4.jpg[/atsimg]

Source: More about "Noah's plate"

It's clear why there's disagreement about the marks being some unknown early script. If a claim is being made that the bowl is possibly 'pre-flood'... erosion and damage would be inevitable to sandstone submerged in coastal waters for 8000. It's difficult to find a description directly attributable to Dimitrov. Instead there are numerous claims of 'near perfection' and associations with Atlantis, Biblical floods and 'lost civilizations' on the more esoteric sites.

Having looked into the 'cradle of civilization' claims further...there appears to be a group of Bulgarian geologists, Earth scientists alongside Pitman and Ryan in support of the idea.

In conflict are the geology reports linked earlier. There's also evidence that aspects of Bulgarian agriculture followed a route from the Near East (Lebanon, Turkey etc) across Greece. This is based on the presence of chick peas dating to around 6000 BC. It never ceases to amaze me what these crazy scientists get around to studying! Anyway, the spread of chick peas from Near East to West conflicts with the idea that agriculture spread from Eastern Europe. There were trade routes that spread knowledge, goods and genes throughout the area.

I see it as a much more rough and ready prototype for what we have today. It's difficult for any nation to claim credit for anything much when so much conquest, exchange, trade, population migration etc disperses is all.

EDIT to correct to 'sandstone.'

[edit on 13-7-2009 by Kandinsky]

reply to post by Kandinsky


Awesome pictures! Any links that show the language independent of the plate? BTW OP great thread.

What I mean is not if the language has been found independent of the plate but it is written down from like a chalk rubbing. Can I view the language without the plate?

[edit on 13-7-2009 by TurkeyBurgers]

reply to post by TurkeyBurgers
None that I can find online. The bowl was found lying some 90 meters down on the Black Sea floor...sounds improbable but who knows? The marks look consistent with how a limestone rock would look after hundreds of years being buffeted against other rocks by undersea currents. That's just an opinion based on the images...Thracian was the spoken and written language of the area...extinct and looks nothing like the marks on the bowl.

This section has real experts who might shed some light on the bowl or the OP. I'm only an enthusiast.

Unfortunately most of the things are not translated in english, but anyway you can see the pictures on the bottom of the page to see how the writing looks like...

forum.tisitova.com...

And the link translated with google :

copy-and-paste link

74.125.79.132/translate_c?hl=no&sl=bg&tl=en&u=http://forum.tisitova.com/viewtopic.php%3Ff%3D16%26t%3D41%26start%3D0%26sid%3D147197a2fa5196952287 2433b7841746&rurl=translate.google.com&usg=ALkJrhjSlGCjpAwwuUfLGqiYv8hbD6KHPw

(look for page 2 )

And I want to say, I do not support any "smoking gun" theories, I just wanted to share the information I have. I'm not claiming that the Bulgarians or Thracians are/were the greates nations in the ancient history, NO!. But there are many things, not only in the folklore, the language or the writing, witch are not so well know by the rest of the world. And there are quite interesting...

Here you can find some useful links on this subject:

www.ancient-bulgaria.com...

www.institutet-science.com...

www.institutet-science.com...






[edit on 14-7-2009 by iasenko]

The thought of alternative authors such as Graham Hancock is the "Great Flood" happened over 12,000 years ago. That would make this discovery post deluvian. There is more evidence popping up that Earth was hit by a swarm of comets during that time, possibly causing the ice caps to melt quite quickly. That is a very controversial idea, but worth looking into.

It's awesome when discoveries are made that throw 'accepted' theory into loops. Just reaffirms my pre-existing opinion that science can only prove what it can prove, until they are proven wrong.

I have a completely baseless theory that civilization actually originated in the Americas, or at least simultaniously with the 'cradle' of Western civ. I have no proof, but the further east they can push our origins the closer they get to finding the boats that brought them to the New World from South America!

We'll never know ... according to the African Mythology
here is the answer to the ultimate question of life the universe and everything...

BUMBA: From the Bushongo in the Congo comes BUMBA, the African Creator God of Vomit. Yes, vomit.


In the beginning, all was dark. Then out of the darkness came BUMBA, a giant pale-skinned figure. He was not feeling well. In fact he had not been feeling well for millions of years. He was lonely, and the unbearable solitude was making him ill.

Troubled by a ballooning bellyache, he staggered, moaned and vomited up the Sun. Light burst forth into the Universe — and he choked out the Moon. The stars came next and then, with a tremendous effort, he threw up the planet Earth. We do live in a very sick world.

This nauseating display was brought to a triumphant conclusion when, as an encore, he vomited forth nine animals, an assortment of humans, and a pile of diced carrots.

Exhausted from his labors, he sat and watched as the nine creatures multiplied. After a while, they had evolved into every living thing on Earth. Which goes to show that Creationism and Evolution are both right.

Apart from a pesky critter named TSETSE-BUMBA, all his creatures were friendly and respectful. His loneliness abated and finally he was content.

Then BUMBA's three sons appeared. NYONYE-NGANA, CHONGANDA and CHEDI-BUMBA added the finishing touches and thus the world was made. BUMBA spoke kindly to his human creations before ascending to Heaven, never to be seen again. So far as we know, his stomach has never troubled him since

www.godchecker.com...

Originally posted by ZenOnKwalsky
reply to post by Kandinsky

 

So what if the Bulgarians speak about those fantastic discoveries??
There is tendency to diminish role of certain nations/tribes in our heritage. Let them speak from time to time...
Maybe to You only the big nations like Germans or Anglosaxsons are authorised to do that...and the Jews of course...

Are you jocking, dude. Germans were ruled by Bulgars and Türks, and Scythians, and beaten by Bulgarians allmost in all conflicts. The initial word for "Germans" is NIEMETC = mute. Bulgarians created 20 Empires and 56 states in both Europe, Near East and Asia. Bulgarians had world´s most accurate Calendar (more precise than todays in use), etc. You can never compare "Germans". Bulgarians can be PROUD of their history.

Bulgarians = Arians! BulgArian. Not "Germans".

By the way, Mayas lived in Sumer (another ancient Bulgarian tribe).