A Skeptics Tools: Validating and Confirming UFO's

Good post but i don't think it counts for some of the best UFO cases. The RAF Bentwaters incident for example - or the Phoenix lights. They Cannot be so easily explained

reply to post by TheMythLives


i am a believer in UFOS etc and i have to say that your thread was well put together, i always believe that in any case of UFO/alien cases a healthy amount of skepticisms needs to be involved and everything questioned and all theories explored and rules out one by one or indeed proven.

what you listed are indeed common things some people have seen in the skys and can account for some of the sightings that have happened, but as you say not all of them.

Indeed if UFOS are alien craft or not is a point that will never be 100% proven as fact or fiction by either the believers or non believers, unless of course one is to walk up to u or out of a craft (even then someone would still doubt), there are many people who swear by what they have encountered etc but for the majority of ats and indeed the world testimony is never enough and we fall into the we want pics/videos etc as proof. there are many things in this world that cannot be explained by the instances you have provided and its those things that keep peopel like me beilving that there is something alot bigger than us out there.

good post by yourself and i hope that people here will take into account some of the instances you mentioned and rule them out or in when making their own investigations

Good thread, TheMyth I think it's important for us to try and rule out the known terrestrial manmade and natural phenomena, without trying to ascribe an identity to the UFOs we see. I think that benefits everyone, particularly the UFO enthusiasts in that it tends to filter out everything except those objects that are truly unidentified.

I frequently see folks who have filmed or photographed an object -- a bright light in the night sky. Sometimes these are conventional satellites. I like to use sites such as www.heavens-above.com that track satellites and other objects (ISS/shuttle, etc.) and let you know what will be visible from your specific location and when.

I'm usually suspicious of claims like "this star has never been here before!" particularly if the observer doesn't demonstrate that they are frequenty skywatchers. I mean, how would you know it is a "new" star or even if it IS a star if a person doesn't have a knowledge base of what is there as compared with a star chart?

I scan the night skies from time to time with night vision. I see what I believe are satellites, however sometimes they don't show up in the Heavens-Above listing. There are a few reasons for this that I can think of:

1. This website is showing you things that are normally observable with the naked [unassisted] eye.

2. There may well be several hundred satellites that the various governments/military use that are not listed for security reasons.

3. There is a wealth of often-tumbling spacejunk out there that emulates a satellite. In addition, many of the known satellites "flash" due to their tumbling action.

In general, I find it difficult to think of a point of light in the sky as a UFO if it appears to maintain a consistent path and velocity. Due to the rotation of the Earth and the orbit of most satellites, they will appear -- from your point of view -- at different times.

I've seen objects four times in my life that I could not explain, that appeared to move in a manner inconsistent with known [to me] terrestrial craft. I wish there were more, as the phenomenon fascinates me.

reply to post by TheMythLives

Thank you TheMythLives perfect thread for reference in future projects/cases.

Your mention of sprite's is more than helpful in trying to identify active storms that have activity around them, from the space video's ever notice how those objects fore see the event and radically move to the precise point off the first flash?
We maybe seeing if and how these space ships are using our electrically live planet to re-power.

Zelong.

reply to post by Zelong


THANK YOU ALL FOR THE KIND WORDS Except one of you, but I will u2u you later, so be sure to keep your eyes open. Anyway, I thought that you guys and gals may enjoy it, because it would be helpful in many more ways then one. Its sort of like a check list for people to look at before posting or making threads or if a thread exists we can use this to validate/debunk.

reply to post by TheMythLives


I dont know if you mentioned it already, but there is also the skydiving teams that have lights attached to them. Makes for a very compelling UFO...

As they are free falling they look to be moving pretty fast. then they open their parachut and begin to perform different maneuvers that make the lights look like they are dancing..Its cool to watch and has fooled many people into believing they just witnessed a UFO.

Sometimes when skeptics use these to explain UFOs, it just seems dumb, don't get me wrong, what you have posted does explain some maybe even alot but not all, I've saw one that no skeptic could ever debunk. S+F

reply to post by open_eyeballs


I will look into this I never heard of them, do you by chance have a name of their team?


reply to post by joe82


Yep, their are UFO's that are just that and no matter how much effort goes into debunking them, its impossible. That is when you jump for joy and scream:

I SAW A UFO

reply to post by TheMythLives


I dont think it is so much one team in particular. I think it has more to do with military exercises and other showman exercizes for different events. Though I wouldnt be surprised if someone did for hoaxing purposes as a practical joke or something.

I know the S.E.A.L.s do it. I believe thier teamname is the leap frogs. I may be wrong on that, but they have been known to do shows at night with lights attached.

reply to post by open_eyeballs


I know what you are talking about now..lol.. when you said the military, it clicked. They have those awesome lights that flicker and sometimes they are lights that are just on, so the ground units can see them. Yea, thats awesome. I will try and find a video! Awesome find and Just plain AWESOME!

reply to post by TheMythLives

Except one of you, but I will u2u you later

Uh Oh....Who's in trouble? I hope not me,lol!


Seriously though it is too bad that threads like this can't be stickied(because obviously no one looks at the already stickied threads in the UFO forum, which you can find here and on the top 5 slots in the forum box) or somehow embedded into any thread in the UFO forum, you would have to review the threads before posting a picture or statement about seeing a UFO. There are a few threads I have in mind for this.

reply to post by open_eyeballs


Found something!



and then I found the mother of all videos:



This video is AMAZING! It actually looks like UFo's..lol.. Seriously, this is awesome evidence and very important evidence as well! Especially around 2:50 and beyound!

Here's some parachutes as well, thanks to PHAGE for sending this my way.





Crazy...

[edit on Jul 12th 2009 by TheMythLives]

Forget it.

The videos I was going to post was already posted.

[edit on 12/7/2009 by ArMaP]

reply to post by TheMythLives


That second video is awesome, I can see how that could be EASILY confused with a UFO fleet, especially because the movements ARE intelligently controlled,lol just by human skydivers and not Greys.

reply to post by TheMythLives


ya, ther you go...very cool videos...good thread..it is important for people to understand that most eye witnesses are not seeing what they think they are seeing.

theres too many people that jump to the conclusion...UFO...immeditaley without trying to rationalize it first. As you have done a good job at showcaseing 90% of all "UFOs" can be identified with conventional means. There are only that small 5+ percent that truly can be labeled "U.F.O."

Yes, indeed...debunking is critical to any investigator...I mean, if you have tried your hardest to remove any sort of unknown factor and your left with something at the end, it makes that evidence far more amazing than if you protected it..

When sighting something in the skys...quickly run through what it could be. If its something potential, sure...take the moment to get excited, feel the adreniline, try to snap pics, videos, etc etc. Once its gone, have a smoke and consider as many wild things as possible...

Then go and do research to debunk it once the high is gone...and dont stop until you have debunked it or exausted every possibility to completion. But remember....when witnessing the event, pay close attention for clear recollection later...note the time, weather conditions, etc...also make sure to get super excited...hey, its a quick high...and no harm in having moments like that even if it does turn out to be just a japanese lantern in the end

Good thread...necessary for anyone serious about finding a ufo in a pile of weather balloons

reply to post by TheMythLives
My compliments to you on one of the best threads I've seen since joining ATS. This is an excellent toolkit. I can't get over how much those balloons dance around just the same way as so many of the UFO videos from Mexico. I agree optical artifacts from camera/lens combinations will be a great addition. The diamond shaped example from Phage is good. The reflector lens with the hole in the middle caused by the middle will be good too, and the pulsating effect of the camera trying to automatically adjust the exposure level of an object it's not focused on (the pulsating effect).

The one thing I've never really seen, is "swamp gas" LOL

Originally posted by jkrog08
I think another good tool is some type of knowledge in psychology so one can be better able to determine if the witness(s) is lying or believing they saw something but really didn't.

You're onto something there. Not only can psychology help us in determining whether people are lying or not, but the related subject of human perception is relevant too, in cases such as the Phoenix lights sightings. There was a "connect the dots" psychological effect on people's perception of the flares. This is not the result of anyone lying, but actually reporting what their mind tricks them into seeing. We have all looked at "optical illusions" and those are more than a fun series of images to look at, they illustrate some real limitations in our abilities to perceive things that aren't well defined, like some flares or point sources of light 50 miles away. Here is an effect that might have come into play in the phoenix lights:

Illusory Contour In the accompanying figure a white equilateral triangle is perceived, but in fact none is drawn.

Similarly, people seeing the flares may have perceived shapes that weren't really there, or interestingly, may have seen the outline of the mountains just below the flares and thought that solid "object" (The mountains) was a "UFO" related to the lights.

Here are some other interesting effects which may be related to UFOs:

Autokinesis

Autokinesis is a visual illusion. It can occur under certain conditions, especially on dark nights in areas with few visual cues (such as lights or other illuminated objects or landmarks). When a small, dim, and fixed light source remains within visual range for an extended period of time, this phenomenon can occur, making it appear as if the light source were moving. This visual illusion can be of particular danger to pilots at night. In addition, it is possible that this illusion may account for some supposed UFO sightings in which witnesses may see an isolated light, such as a bright star or planet, seeming to move erratically around.

Flash lag effect

The flash lag illusion or flash-lag effect is a visual illusion wherein a flash and a moving object that appear in the same location are perceived to be displaced from one another.

Moon Illusion
This illusion shows how observers perceptions of size and (and therefore of distance) can be unreliable, even with a known object. When dealing with the additional uncertainties of an unknown object this uncertainty is even worse. So when a witness tells you "the object was about 50 meters wide and 3000 meters away", do not assume they are lying, that may be their perception, but do not accept that perception as reliable, and especially if the sighting is made at night, or if there are few visual cues available to judge distance with.

Originally posted by open_eyeballs
reply to post by TheMythLives

 

ya, ther you go...very cool videos...good thread..it is important for people to understand that most eye witnesses are not seeing what they think they are seeing.

theres too many people that jump to the conclusion...UFO...immeditaley without trying to rationalize it first. As you have done a good job at showcaseing 90% of all "UFOs" can be identified with conventional means. There are only that small 5+ percent that truly can be labeled "U.F.O."

I agree completely. What surprised me was to hear the UFO hunter guy, Bill Birnes, who is not a skeptic at all, say the same thing on UFO hunters, that 95% of UFO sightings aren't anything special, so that leaves 5% that are interesting. He spends more time looking into UFOs than most of us being the publisher of UFO magazine so he should know.

Thanks to this nice toolkit we'll have some help separating the 95% from the 5%.

Knowing the capabilities of certain software and its plugins provides some good basis for possible explanations of some hoaxed video as well.
Please watch the following tutorial introducing the functions of Trapcode's Particular plugin for After Effects. At about 9:40 you will find some interesting features concerning the 'UFO releases intelligent moving spheres' clip.


Link to tutorial video

If you ask me I have almost no doubt anymore.


edit: Might me much faster to download this and watch "off-line":

Link to download page - video3

Will try to convert the file and upload the relevant part of the above menioned tutorial.



[edit on 13-7-2009 by necati]

Again it goes back to .....it has to happen to you.

It is very sad that people think it is fun or funny to do the things they do to make this subject matter a joke instead of a serious one that it should be.

I have no repect what----- so----- ever for these joksters/hoaxers because there are many abductee's/experiencers that have had contact with these ships and there occupants and need help if not able to handle or understand in some way what has happened to them.

I have talked with a few teenagers that have had contact and are scared stiff but they don't say anything anymore because when they tried to talk to friends they were made a joke of (yes by there friends) and friendships were lost... they ended up alone in there life.... they have learned that it is best to keep quiet. Many come to the net to find people that are in the same situation and maybe finding someone that might help them understand or learn things. There are other teenagers that tell there parents who then take them to the Dr.'s and the Dr. just dopes them with meds and there entire life is destroyed.

Pransters, joksters I hope you are "proud of yourself" when you hoax pictures and anything else you attempt to do, shame on you and one day you might just have to answer for your deeds.

Now to subject at hand:

Yes our military could have craft that mimic ufo's or other militaries as far as it goes, yes there are things that can appear to be ufo like such as many of the things that have been shown here on ATS... BUT there are also UFO's and Aliens.

Our government(s) would have to play "total stupidity" and act as if they "JUST DISCOVERED" this (ufo's and aliens) because if they don't I believe there just might be millions that will be after there lying butts for not helping the people that need the help.



[edit on 13-7-2009 by observe50]

reply to post by observe50


I will agree one hundred percent with the above statement, that there are other bodies from elsewhere here communicating on a soul level.

They want communication with our very soul is correct, from whitley streiber wrote.

The soul knows everything, its controlling the body. A time will come when the person seperates from their body and mind and knows they are much more.

The Ancient Ones might even speak in their native tongue some chantings that make your body align with a higher frequency out put, their words ancient they are will actually makes some of your body light up that were actually laying dormant. This is the power/responsibility of some of these beings hold being able to communicate at whole world levels.


This upgrade or training excersize usually deals with a ufo over head, beings from a higher density dropping in between waking levels of the mind, opening up the brains compacity to comprehend and making the world silent.

Bedside manner treatement. Imagine the world being lit up from the inside out all at once from this synergy of energy charging everybodies bodies, from the inside out.

That's why it helps to rid the body of disease and fear, the only fear that is stopping us is us evaluating ourselves on a much higher level of consciousness.


[edit on 13-7-2009 by menguard]