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Anti-mason hate group on ATS?

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posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 09:10 AM
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Originally posted by Mumbotron


Why would anyone want to skip degrees like:


Degrees are not "skipped". They are given back-to-back at events called Reunions, which usually last a couple of weekends. Master Masons go in, begain at the Fourth Degree, and receive the degrees in sequence until they reach the 32nd.


19 degree: Pontiff (clearly blasphemy towards Catholicism)


The 19th degree has no relation to Catholicism.


24 degree: Prince of the Tabernacle (don't Christians give Jesus that title)


Not to my knowledge.


28 degree: Knight of the sun adept (obvious connection to solar worship and, well Satanism among other things- Paganism...)


All religions are based on solar worship, *especially* Christianity. "Satanism" is simply a reaction against the hypocrisy of modern Christianity, and has nothing to do with Freemasonry.




posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 09:11 AM
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Originally posted by Mumbotron
You altruistic Masons with your combined wealth could put a rail system and a few highways in Africa for what you probably spend on hors d'oeuvres in a month worldwide thereby solving the problem of starvation in Africa forever. Good work guys.


You non-Masons could do the same with the money you spend on Big Macs. Good work guys.



posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 10:24 AM
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Originally posted by Mumbotron
Obviously since you already know I'm not a Mason I can't claim to know the inner workings of your 'elevation process'. For example it took my cousin 5 years to reach Master mason(3rd degree for those who don't know).


In the state of NC you have 6 months between degrees to memorize the work and return it. You can ask for a 6 month extension if you have a good reason, but I have never heard of someone taking this long. I am not sure it is allowed. Is it possible you are mistaken?



posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 10:37 AM
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Originally posted by network dude


In the state of NC you have 6 months between degrees to memorize the work and return it. You can ask for a 6 month extension if you have a good reason, but I have never heard of someone taking this long. I am not sure it is allowed. Is it possible you are mistaken?


In SC, the minimum wait between degrees is 28 days, except by dispensation. A candidate can wait longer if he desires, but if he waits longer than 6 months, he has to go through the investigation process again.

[edit on 15-7-2009 by Masonic Light]



posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 11:28 AM
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reply to post by Masonic Light
 


it sounds like the same thing as us. I can't imagine having 5 years between the 1st and the 3rd. It seems as it you would forget everything you learned. I can't remember what happened 20 minutes ago let alone 5 years.



posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 11:37 AM
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Originally posted by Mumbotron
Why would anyone want to skip degrees like:
19 degree: Pontiff (clearly blasphemy towards Catholicism)
From the Oxford English Dictionary, Pontiff could mean "1. Originally: a bishop of the early Western Church. 2. A chief or high priest of any religion."

24 degree: Prince of the Tabernacle (don't Christians give Jesus that title)
Googling for "Prince of the Tabernacle" and "Jesus", I see no indication that Christians give Jesus that title. Can you cite a source I might be missing?

28 degree: Knight of the sun adept (obvious connection to solar worship and, well Satanism among other things- Paganism...)
Um, no.

Indeed, why WOULD someone want to skip them entirely. Hopefully I'll get around to seeing all the degrees performed at some point or another, but to do them all would take a considerable amount of time.

Argument for the 19th degree:

In entering upon a new series or division of the degrees of the Ancient and Accepted Rite, we are still in pursuit of good, and labouring for the destruction of evil, following the same laws as those laid down in the two preceding degrees, and taking another bold step toward the purification of our own souls, and sowing, for others to reap fruits of eternal happiness.

This degree is founded upon certain apocalyptic mysteries relating to the New Jerusalem; it rests upon the three characteristic virtues taught in the Eighteenth degree, and proclaims the Alpha and Omega.


Argument for the 24th degree:

The degree of Prince of the Tabernacle illustrates the ceremonies of the Priests in the ancient Temples, and explains the esoteric meaning of their many avocations in equipping the Temple and sustaining their various sacerdotal duties. This degree is most intimately connected with, and should be considered a continuation of, that of the Chief of the Tabernacle. The especial duties of a Prince of the Tabernacle are to labour incessantly for the glory of God, the honour of his country, and the happiness of his brethren; to offer up thanks and prayers to the Deity in lieu of sacrifices of flesh and blood.


I thought this bit was nice from the end of the 28th degree...

If the sacred Scriptures are inspired, God himself has told us that he makes good and creates evil. It is owing to human vanity that no man has ever dared to reason with common sense on this subject Man pursues, tortures, and kills the most innocent animals, birds, and fishes, to gratify his appetite, or for mere pleasure. He crushes thousands of insects without a thought of wrong; nay, he destroys, as does every other animal, myriads of animalalae and infusoria daily, unconsciously, and without being able to avoid it. Throughout the whole scale of animal creation, one creature lives by devouring another, and every step taken, or movement made, or breath drawn by each, crushes out life. Pain and sickness, calamity and death, are the lot of all created beings.

The world teems everywhere with life, and is peopled with innumerable myriads of beings sensitive to pain. It was not created for man alone; and it is not only precisely what the divine and perfect wisdom intended, but it is all that a material world, peopled by beings with material bodies, could by possibility be. The millennium on this earth is the real Utopia, fabulous and impossible, of visionary dreamers. Man is what the Deity meant he should be-imperfect, feeble, fallible, liable to err, and sensitive to pain, but capable of improvement and progression, and of a heroism that can smile at agony, be content with destitution, preserve an equal mind under the lash of injustice, and without unmanly fear await the approach of death and count the pulses of his life. The man who can do this has attained the equilibrium of faith and reason, and may claim to be called Magus, Prince, Adept, and Knight of the Sun.
(all external quotes from The Book of the Ancient & Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry (1884) by Charles T. McClenechan)



posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 12:22 PM
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Originally posted by JoshNorton


Indeed, why WOULD someone want to skip them entirely. Hopefully I'll get around to seeing all the degrees performed at some point or another, but to do them all would take a considerable amount of time.



There was a joint NC/SC Spring Reunion in Charlotte, NC this year (you may have seen it reported on in the Scottish Rite Journal). All the degrees were conferred in full form, beginning on a Wednesday evening, and culminating in the 32° and new members banquet on Saturday evening.

It would be nice to see more Valleys being able to do this, I know that the Valley of Guthrie, OK does, but not many more.



posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 12:33 PM
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Originally posted by network dude
but the sad thing here is that most are not interested in the "teachings of masonry" as they would most certainly be lies.


This is an assumption Ndude, I have never seen any posative Masonic threads on this site or any others. By the nature of the group it seems to want to keep info to itself.
Furthermore what about all the other posts and subjects here, tireless hours of research or mind bending experiences of terror. I have been called a liar, an agent, delusional. Does that shake my convictions? No.


Originally posted by network dudeAnd if we started a thread about the teachings of masonry, there would be no conspiracy aspect of it and therefore not belong here. It's a catch 22.


Not at all, anything concearning the nature of reality, especially the afterlife is very relevant. Its all a conspiracy or none of it is. Surely the Masonic writings say something about sacred geomentry and how the rules of the universe work in patterns. Not only that but any system worth a look understands that we are all one with everything else.


Originally posted by network dude But for your enjoyment, I started this thread after finding out through the member Suzque66 that a secret group had formed and is trying to bolster membership for the sole purpose of disrupting the flow of information regarding masons.


They have succeeded, if indeed you had any "flow" in the first place. Regardless, as I have said before this phenomenon and this type of thread and the Masons apparent inability to recognise irony is not confined to this forum.


Originally posted by network dude Now I could really care less about that kind of kids game, but since I do come here looking for a good discussion on occasion, I thought it would be a fun time to try to entice these folks to come and identify themselves. They have not and so what I can see is no harm done.


But you guys need to lead by example. You are the only people who activley represent a clique on this forum. A clique that tries to imply that the members are good people by virtue of their membership.


Originally posted by network dude If there is any aspect of masonry that you would like to talk about, please feel free to ask in this thread or start a new one, and I can almost guarantee that the masons on this forum would be glad to talk about things that don't involve made up fantasies.


Thanks network. I have asked questions to masons before and the answers have been very good. But I am not a Mason so surely my questions would be of poor quality. I would really like to see some Masons post some threads that they think can help us, the conspiracy community at large.


Originally posted by network dudeAnd I actually gave Suz a compliment on the way she handled the group. This thread was in no way a slight on her.


Got to admire a woman who speaks up infront of men.



posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 01:21 PM
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What is this? A mason love in!
Why are you here? More importantly why am I here lol.
I read through this thread and I am shocked by the blatant pro-mason PR campaign.
I've never ever heard half of the wild accusations, that you claim the conspiracy world throws at you.
As far as I am aware you are a secret boys club that helps each other out with various things, like local govt building contracts and the like.
You sound both surprised and annoyed that most people distrust you, yet you skulk around in the shadows scratching each others back, doing deals at the expense of other people who aren't in your little group.
What'd you expect, you have chosen to band together and work as one society, excluding everyone else.
Then you have the cheek to complain when we say this is a conspiracy!
The fact that you are still around after all these years proves that you garner influence and power.
Now take off your hoods and show me your reptillian face, just kidding I know you guys never take off your hoods lol.



posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 01:41 PM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by Mumbotron


Why would anyone want to skip degrees like:


Degrees are not "skipped". They are given back-to-back at events called Reunions, which usually last a couple of weekends. Master Masons go in, begain at the Fourth Degree, and receive the degrees in sequence until they reach the 32nd.


19 degree: Pontiff (clearly blasphemy towards Catholicism)


The 19th degree has no relation to Catholicism.


24 degree: Prince of the Tabernacle (don't Christians give Jesus that title)


Not to my knowledge.


28 degree: Knight of the sun adept (obvious connection to solar worship and, well Satanism among other things- Paganism...)


All religions are based on solar worship, *especially* Christianity. "Satanism" is simply a reaction against the hypocrisy of modern Christianity, and has nothing to do with Freemasonry.


My guess is you haven't read Morals and Dogma.
I left it out before but why not add it in now...
25: Knight of the Brazen Serpent.....come on

[edit on 15-7-2009 by Mumbotron]



posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 01:53 PM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by Mumbotron
You altruistic Masons with your combined wealth could put a rail system and a few highways in Africa for what you probably spend on hors d'oeuvres in a month worldwide thereby solving the problem of starvation in Africa forever. Good work guys.


You non-Masons could do the same with the money you spend on Big Macs. Good work guys.


That is ridiculous. First of all non-Masons aren't a band of merry men claiming to be a credit to humanity. I probably don't need to tell you that your members are most of the richest people in western society. Proportionately, what would be a big mac to someone like myself would build a railroad across Africa out of the pockets of these guys (you guys). Oh-- my point there was that Africa produces enough to feed the entire continent, they just cant transport the goods to were it's needed.

[edit on 15-7-2009 by Mumbotron]



posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 02:23 PM
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reply to post by Mumbotron
 


if you are going to question a mason on this board about things like Pike, I would suggest picking on an easier target. Masonic Light is one of the more learned one here when it comes to those subjects. Best to pack a lunch.
I am going to grab some popcorn.



posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 02:59 PM
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Originally posted by Mumbotron

My guess is you haven't read Morals and Dogma.
I left it out before but why not add it in now...
25: Knight of the Brazen Serpent.....come on



Not only have I read Morals and Dogma, I've studied it alongside "Clausen's Commentaries On Morals and Dogma", and Pike's Legendas and Liturgies of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite, which you've probably never even heard of before.

None of which, by the way, addresses anything I previously wrote anyway.



I probably don't need to tell you that your members are most of the richest people in western society.


That is completely laughable. Compared to other clubs and civic organizations, Freemasonry has members of the most financially meagre.



posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 03:00 PM
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Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Mumbotron
 


if you are going to question a mason on this board about things like Pike, I would suggest picking on an easier target. Masonic Light is one of the more learned one here when it comes to those subjects. Best to pack a lunch.
I am going to grab some popcorn.

I really have nothing against you guys... for real. As far as people (not myself) having a problem with Freemasonry, there are a litany of reasons. It is a well known fact that Freemasonry is in conflict with the Catholic faith. There's a fantastic historical reason for this IMHO, namely the fact that the Catholic Church would do away with anyone who opposed their doctrine in the old days, people like Galileo. So you guys got together to discuss the truth in secret out of self protection. I really don't have an opinion here or there about your degrees, their significance or whether your rituals mirror the practices of witch-craft and Satanism.

[edit on 15-7-2009 by Mumbotron]



posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 03:04 PM
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reply to post by Mumbotron
 


So, seeing as how there are several lists of famous masons, list some of the current, richest members, then.
Also, show where they are spending enough money internally to finance Africa.
Also, explain why Masons in the US should support Africa. Keep in mind the hospitals, libraries, and financial aid institutions put in place by Masonry.

Now, Africa has Grand Lodges as well, and they probably do similar as they do in the States.



posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 03:10 PM
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Originally posted by RuneSpider
reply to post by Mumbotron
 


So, seeing as how there are several lists of famous masons, list some of the current, richest members, then.
Also, show where they are spending enough money internally to finance Africa.
Also, explain why Masons in the US should support Africa. Keep in mind the hospitals, libraries, and financial aid institutions put in place by Masonry.

Now, Africa has Grand Lodges as well, and they probably do similar as they do in the States.


I'll just break out my copy of your accounting books



posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 03:21 PM
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Originally posted by RuneSpider


So, seeing as how there are several lists of famous masons, list some of the current, richest members, then.


I hope you're not holding your breath.


Also, show where they are spending enough money internally to finance Africa.


Again, keep breathing. I'm the Secretary of my Lodge, which is basically the CFO position, with my duties including all the bookkeeping and financial disbursements, along with the Treasurer. I've also assisted in audits of other Lodges.

Internal expenses are usually not even covered by revenues, and a lot of Lodges are operating in the red. If a Lodge has 400 members, and charges 50 bucks per year for dues (which is the average in the US), its annual revenues are $20,000 before deducting life memberships paid or granted, which is usually roughly half. That means the Lodge's actual annual revenues are $10,000.

It then has to pay Grand Lodge dues. In this example, let's say three thousand bucks. That leaves the Lodge with $7,000 for the year. Then you have 12 months of mortgage payments, utility bills, insurance premiums, and property taxes. You don't need a CPA to tell you what's going to be left.


[edit on 15-7-2009 by Masonic Light]



posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 03:32 PM
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reply to post by Masonic Light
 




I hope you're not holding your breath.


I'm turning purple waiting for an answer from yesterday.




Just to clarify, I don't hate anyone... not Masons, not anti-Masons, not even anti-Semites or people prone to being somehow abusive.



Perhaps not, but stating your claims such as you have without backing them up, is not winning many friends.



posted on Jul, 15 2009 @ 03:49 PM
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Originally posted by Mumbotron

I really have nothing against you guys... for real. As far as people (not myself) having a problem with Freemasonry, there are a litany of reasons. It is a well known fact that Freemasonry is in conflict with the Catholic faith. There's a fantastic historical reason for this IMHO, namely the fact that the Catholic Church would do away with anyone who opposed their doctrine in the old days, people like Galileo. So you guys got together to discuss the truth in secret out of self protection. I really don't have an opinion here or there about your degrees, their significance or whether your rituals mirror the practices of witch-craft and Satanism.

[edit on 15-7-2009 by Mumbotron]


From what I have witnessed personally, the only one who thinks masonry is incompatible with the Catholic church is the Catholic Church. I am a confirmed catholic and a mason. I think the church fears what it cannot control so there you have the hang up. Once you understand what masonry teaches, I can't see how it is incompatible with any religion. It is an extension of YOUR religion. The brotherly love and charity is the main focus and it's up to you to incorporate the guy you worship into the teachings.

I have been fed up with organized religion due to the intolerance of other beliefs. I don't think anyone on earth truly knows the big picture and we won't see it until we die. So to act as if we are right and you are wrong is laughable. I think it's best to try to understand why someone thinks the way they do rather than attempt to change their mind.



posted on Jul, 17 2009 @ 12:44 PM
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You are really unbeleivable, Freemasons have been for years grouping, wolf pack, for bullying and bashing to intimidate non-mason, interested in investigating freemasonry conspiracies.

Please guys...




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