How long has MKUltra or its predessors been around

I have no background on caring about his sort of information, so treat me like a total newb on it please. Assume no previous knowledge.

I am probably looking to find out mainly about the predessor groups that spawned MKUltra and its modern cohorts. Not just the USA please - UK, and Canadian links are both of interest.

I read somewhere that different forms of mind control have been around for thousands of years. Religion, culture etc. Giving it an actual name as a program, doesn't mean that's when it all started. God, Satan etc. real or assumed deities are also connected. Much of this seems to be an extension of the natural laws of existance. Humans are part of the animal kingdom and many forget that.

reply to post by Aeons


mkultra mid to late fifties but predominantly from the onset of albert hoffman's discovery. operated in sanatoriums across uk,canada etc. plenty of info round here.
regards cdi.

I think I was a lab rat in an MK Ultra type event once. Very odd, hazy memories. I still think black ops runs a covert interrogation unit using what came out of MK Ultra.

www.mindspring.com...

reply to post by whaaa


hi whaaa
i feel we are all part of the same underlying experiments in one way or another. terror is part of warfare and one purpose of ultra was to instill terror and compliance in the subject.
regards cdi.

Which organizations over the last 150 years have the sort of power, pull, and security clearances that they can wipe records from 3 or 4 different countries and the Vatican?

Okay. Here is another.

How are people tagged for being someone who can be "split?" Is there anyone who has tracked what happens into subsequent generations?

Originally posted by Aeons
Okay. Here is another.

How are people tagged for being someone who can be "split?" Is there anyone who has tracked what happens into subsequent generations?

It's not a question of who can, only what is the best technique for the intended victim.

Of course the younger the victim is the easier this is.

I was going to describe how to, then realised I'd be describing it so well anyone could do it. So no. Too many people know how to do this already.



For subsequent generations, I can tell you a bit about the children of one victim. (It's not inherited.)

She had no way of knowing she'd been split, because the different personalities had no contact with each other and no memories of events when they were not in control. As this had happened well before school age she had adapted to it, not knowing why people got puzzled when they said things had happened and she "knew" they hadn't. When you are like that you don't know you have holes in your memory. Your mind finds ways of making each personality's memory seem complete.

Anyway, this woman's kids had to cope with their mother suddenly changing personality, and never could rely on her to be the same as yesterday or to remember things. This caused a lot of hatred from the oldest, who had to try and keep things running and sort out what was going on when her mother couldn't. The younger ones were shielded to some extent by their sister, so were less harshly judgemental.

The mother sought psychiatric help many times, but the personality that arrived at the psychiatrist didn't know there was any problem, and the psych would see her "strong, obviously well adjusted" exterior and wish all his patients were that sane. On the few times she did remember her childhood, and the mental difficulties she was living with, (including constant suicidal depression,) she found she couldn't communicate. Any attempt to tell these things caused a feeling of being strangled and she was unable to breath and would faint if she persisted.

When the daughter had a baby she realised her mother was there for her whenever she needed her and really cared about her and her baby. A lot of mutual healing has taken place since then.

On reaching her fifties the mother had a shock which made it clear something was going on, and has gradually been integrating the personalities somewhat. She's learned to sometimes access a deeper personality which can be aware of whichever superficial personality is in control and retain its memories. In that way she has finally "met" the little girl who was there originally, and is still preserved as a happy, innocent child, but buried deep inside. It was a joyous and heartbreaking experience.



There is an afterlife, and one day we will all learn that "being lost is worth the coming home."

I wonder if there are people who are split that aren't "split" so uniquely as it were.

That they are aware of the split, but still somewhat integrated so their lives are not so torn apart.

I have some ..... suspicions about the roles and goals of organizations that predate MK Ultra by a significant number of years.

It would seem to me that the poeple not on the front lines of these ...groups? experiments? think that what they are doing is important and necessary and serves a purpose.

Trauma quite clearly changes people, and this sort of disconnection redirects them AWAY from their past. Which is perhaps sad on an individual basis. But is this the POINT of it? To redirect people, as a group, away from past allegiance and cultural motifs? To cause mass reintegration on a new identity?

You might say that I've started to see a pattern in something I've been looking at, and I smell a bonfire.

reply to post by Aeons

I'd be very interested to know what is in your mind about this.
I find MKultra stuff so fascinating I wonder if I could just as easily been one of the manipulators, if that was the journey life took me on.
My GP was a psych working for the CIA before he was disbarred. (He laughs and says MKultra is a smokescreen, if I ask. But I don't expect honesty from him.) He did deep sleep therapy for them. He was part of a now illegal baby-stealing cult here, "The Family". They'd deliver babies for single girls in their surgeries, - quite a few medical people involved, and pretend they were adopting them out, but instead fake birth certificates and keep them on the Family compound. They were experimented on with drugs and water torture.

I've spoken to their "leader." No, nothing weird or clever or secret, I just got sat at her table at a wedding and plied the poor woman with alcohol until she was talking freely. She claimed they had CIA protection and were part of something worldwide. According to her, once George Bush was elected, everyone "that mattered" in America would be part of this organisation. Curiosity nearly killed the cat though.

I suspect TPTB, the ultra wealthy who own to no country, after they got WW2 going used the opportunity to do mind control experiments amongst the others done at the prison camps. After the war, through Paperclip, it was different venue, same masters.

Do you see ways in which it could have gone further back?
Come to think of it, a nunnery would be a convenient place in which to practice breaking spirits and manipulating personalities.

I think the people doing this want absolute control of everyone. They've worked out how many puppets they can manipulate at once, and plan to either kill the excess or exclude them from society. Crazy sects like the one at Jonestown are just experiments set up to gain this total control.

Their great test of the control they had was to see if mothers would obediently kill their own babies.

Just on the news a way to think controls instead of actually having
to turn the knob on your radio.

That means the thought waves to your muscles are known.

Or some one with a remote transmitter might move your arms
in any way they want.

A craft hovering over you house might transmit controlling signals
and you find yourself going out side to look for the papers and
you don't have papers delivered.

Some think the Nazi SS was a control experiment.
By the end of WWII the US had an intel network due to collaboration
or incorporating the Nazis spies as they were willing to disclose their
secrets of yet disclosed to most of us.

So perhaps mk ultra came from the Nazis.
The biggest secret may be the UFO craft developed in Nazi Germany.
When America found out the engineer in charge had all his work
taken away and locked away from the Nazi spies.
After the war, some Nazis got that engineers work for their own use.
The waves used by that scientist can be used for mind control
if the research went that way as Reich seemed to have a problem
with hovering craft.

This takes some set up. Being Canadian I know USA history, and Canadian, and French, UK, Spanish and Russian and Chinese histories since their revolutions. That the histories all tie back to the revolutions is very important, but I don't know if I'll get to that here.

Its part of our curriculum. Plus I just happen to have an interest in that sort of thing, along with genealogy.

The New World, particularly Canada after Europe lost control the southern colonies, was intended to be a literal New World.

The people in it, to fulfill the intended use of the New World was for it to be populated by a sober, hard working labour force. I'm not making that up. If you read old British, and French government documents from when colonists were being sent here they actually discuss this fact quite plainly.

However, there was a couple of major problems with this plan. First of all, the people here already had several deep seated cultures, few of which lent themselves to a work force.

Secondly, the people that they were actually sending here were largely (not solely though) not such people. The poor. The uncompliant. The criminal. The uneducated. The highbrow children that were inconvenient or embarrassing.

The people from Europe who came particularly to Canada at first were not here for nation making. Canada was a Corporation - the Hudson Bay Company. I'm not being dramatic for effect. I mean that literally.

The people who came to fuel that company's needs and make money were - odd, and entrepreneurial...AT BEST. Many of them were straight up psychopaths. Again, not exageration. The hunters that came were often ex-soldiers who wanted to get away from oversight, liked killing, and enjoyed the fact that they had better technology and proven techniques to cow the natives with.

The people sent here came from a variety of ethnic groups, cultures, languages and religions.

The point here is that - this isn't exactly stew that lends itself to "a sober hardworking labour force."

Which is an interesting phrase isn't it? How did they know that they needed a large scale hardworking labour force to fuel industrialization?

Because the people in high places did indeed know. Their intent and words say so. So does the fact that they proceeded on another fifty years of gauging the new populace to see how healthy, and educated they were through censuses taken every ten years. Before setting out a course for universal education.

Groups that have loyalties to each other are often way less concerned about the job than all of the aspects of life. They have traditions. Family. Feuds. And thousands of years working at their own damn pace.


What is the one thing that the French, Russian, Chinese revolutions and the founding of the New World, and the treatment of natives have in common?

In all of them people where encouraged, forced to let go of past ties. Past cultural motifs. Past FAMILY connections. In the People's Cultural Revolution the Chinese were encouraged to destroy all the books that all families kept to record their lineage. Russians where displaced, and the intent to be a new culture was backed up with consistent shows of deadly force by the new leaders.

Natives were indoctrinated into a system of cultural destruction with a systematic ease, using a system that had already been used successfully for four hundred years in Ireland.

The consistent trend is the breakage of familial ties to the past. Destruction of cultural identity.


Now let me address the two of the foundational groups that compromise Canadian citizenry that have been here for more than 40 years. 40 years isn't a random number - it is about when the last of the religious run orphanages, Home Children transfers, and native residential school ended.

Of people of European descent, one in thirty Canadians is descended from a Home Child. Add in the numbers of people descended from the local orphanages like the ones that were a huge scandal in Newfoundland, where many Canadian families originate, who can add about another 1 in 70. Now add in the natives who were put through the EXACT same system, even run by the same groups.

We are literally talking about probably ten million or so Canadian families that have a founding New Era members that came out of systems which perpetuated ongoing deeply traumatic ritualized abuse.

Which just happens to be an excellent way to break people from their family, past, ethnic and cultural identity, and leaves them open to remodeling - particularly remodeling based on hope. Hope that necessarily must be put into a time frame of the future.

That's not accidental. The speed and perfection of this system was set up in the New World to acclimatize the natives with immense precision and speed. It worked beautifully for this purpose within a generation, two on the outside. Break people, and some become useful and the others are too broken to get in the way. The conveniently pass their brokenness down too.


That's the first installment. The vast pile of trees that seems to be conveniently stacked up like firewood for a big ass bonfire.

[edit on 2009/12/3 by Aeons]

reply to post by Aeons

I'd thought I was getting to understand the world, but you just opened my eyes to a huge aspect of it I'd never noticed.

Coming from Australia, where we've recently had national apologies to the aboriginal children stolen from their families and placed in orphanages or with white families, to be murdered, raped, tortured and used as slaves,

- and to the children brought out from England who were lied to, told they were orphans, their parents told they were dead, the orphanages not even keeping a record of where they had gone, and treated here exactly the same as the stolen aboriginal children,

- the intentional destruction of roots should have been obvious to me.

I saw a quote on why they were sent out, official, but I can't place it.
It was specified these kids were to help provide the countries with a workforce and child bearers.

And this goes along with the destruction of countries, civilisations deemed to be a future threat to us.

A celebrated Australian, MacFarlane Burnet, was working in the 1940s on ways to create epidemics to cut down the populations in Asian countries and kill their crops before they became a threat to us. This was all government funded, and when he died a huge institute for investigating contagious disease was named after him.

The real reason for the murder of Dr. Paul Kelly, (the suicided English weapons inspector,) may have been that he was about to admit his involvement in an effort to create a "black bomb", a disease targeting black people.

There is a reason for not many heterosexual whites catching AIDs. There are actually 2 contagious diseases called AIDs. The first was developed in Africa, more by trial and error, reinfecting blacks over and over until they found a disease that thrived better in blacks than in whites.

Then the rotovirus from this AIDs was isolated and worked with in a laboratory, being bred in rectal tissue, to make it specially target those using anal intercourse.
Of course this doesn't mean straight whites should not take precautions, it still can be caught by anyone.

There has been so much evil done in the world; so many great countries/cultures intentionally savaged by economic means, and then humiliated by brainwashed fools who can't see how the wealthy western whitestyle ......... oops, I mean lifestyle, has involved such cruelty and persecution of others.

And then there was the NSSM 200, a program signed by President Ford, and enforced with the help of the UN, designed to keep Western culture supreme and keep the "lesser" countries subservient.



So are there 2 sides to this coin?
- The Western countries to be kept wealthy and dominant and the rest, to be subjugated to strict population control and used for their resources?

Or are we all ultimately in the one boat, just slaveholds to be used and abused as the puppeteers see fit?

I think we are sitting in the same boat.

Cultures and race and ethnicity do not actually matter. Only resources.

People as resources matter.

Most people are not resources right now.

Not only are most people not resources, most people are down right problematic.

I doubt most people notice what is normal for them. If you live in Austrialia or Canada or the US, or Brazil, this is probably normal. Surely when its everyone, that's just the way the World works. Or so we just assume.

So do I believe that efforts might be put on reducing certain populations over other ones? Sure. But I think it has more to do with those areas be intractable and difficult and consistently problematic.

Seen as kneecapping their own best consistently.

China deals with its own problems. Japan does now too. India does not. Nor does Africa. India's culture is fairly homogenous, so perhaps may lend itself to redefinition.

Africa is not homogenous. In any way. There are even two main genetic groups of Black Africans, excluding the Arabic North Africans. This division is deep - it goes back to an almost extinction event that left almost no humans. Two groups that were isolated for an extremely long time developed out of that divide. Most people in the other parts of the World have lines that extend from the more Northern group.

You can see that divide if you ignore the American Africans from your mental picture.

Anyways, I'm going off on a tangent here.

I don't think that if such a population reduction plan was in place it really has anything to do with them being African or black. It has to do with Africa being a gigantic pain in the rear.

I think it is more likely that Africa is the most likely continent to get itself seriously nuked in a war extending from the Middle East. The actors are all there - the resources are there. And all of them want to. But who wants to put a nuke down in the neighbourhood next to them unless they have no choice? Particularly when it would effect trade routes of the real big boys? But Africa. Well now there is a place you can make a statement writ in radiation.

Couple that with hunger, internal brutality - which just about all their leaders and wannabe leaders are - and a rampant killer disease on a population that is already not at its best. Well, you wouldn't need to tailor a disease very much under that circumstances. A natural one that's nasty would do.

The people most likely to survive, the truly entrepreneurial, the rich, the robustly healthy, those with access to things like clean water.

I would actually suspect that if that such reduction plans was the case, it demonstratively has little to do with their race or colour.

If you think of N. and S. America, they are now huge land masses populated with groups of just about every type. In the last 10 years or so, groups from Africa direct have been arriving in smaller towns and big centers. Its the smaller locales that make it interesting.

These groups are like little cross sections of each group and culture.

The is heavy representation from that southern isolated genetic group I was discussing earlier.


Now, let me put us in the place of being someone(s) who perhaps have more information on World affairs. What if you were not a racist.

What if you really didn't care about what or who the people where. What if what you cared about is a goal you had in mind for all people. What if you actually liked the diversity, but not the problems.

What if you knew that an area that is highly racial-centric was likely to experience several potential problems over a short period of time? Created problems, or you just know enough about what is happening to know that you cannot stop some of the problems. That these problems might reduce the population of these areas drastically, willy-nilly. Removing some of that important diversity.

You'd probably want to find a way to move a sampling of each unique or foundational group.

What if certain countries aren't just countries. What if they are Arks? Great Big Arks. Holding some of as many groups as possible. Hot housing them.

It isn't about being "white." As a matter of fact, most of the foundation of the "white" grouping that is supposedly so important is based on the dregs of those areas with a sprinkling of the highly educated. White isn't a culture. Never was. Still isn't. European-Asian lighter Caucasians haven't cultural homeogenity. The idea that it does is created by invoking other groups in comparison. "Black" Culture. So there must be "white" culture. But there isn't - and what there is, is new as a kitten.

What if it isn't about dominance of one race over another?


Resources. People as resources. Daily mundane tragedy of millions replaced with pointed large scale trauma - followed by a period of rapid improvement in daily lives of most people. Who could argue with that?

[edit on 2009/12/3 by Aeons]

reply to post by Aeons

That was interesting about the 2 racial groups in Africa. I'll have to do some reading on that. There is so much I still don't know.

I'm not suggesting populations are being targeted because of colour or genetics. But learning how to target specific groups makes it easier to manipulate the various groups. The NSSM 200 was aimed at preventing countries from ever being able to rise up and challenge the wealthier countries, or protect their own rights to their own resources.

MacFarlane's work on ways to lower the populations in Asian countries were not directly because these people were Asian, it was because the population numbers gave those country strength, and Australia was afraid of having strong neighbours.
- Particularly ones they could not understand.
Perhaps it was also about resources. We were quick enough to help ourselves to the oil in East Timor.

TPTB have a deep disdain for most of humankind, whatever their colour.
However their disdain is particularly focused on those who are obviously not Caucasian. They don't see themselves as prejudiced. They will be nice to anyone provided they know their place and keep to it.

Germany was nearly the victim of this attitude after WW2.
Americans wanted to utterly demolish German industry and send that country backwards to a purely agrarian country. However the rest of the allies objected and Germany was allowed to rebuild.

The final plans of TPTB involve returning much of Earth to its natural state.
- Not from benevolence, but because safaris and desert island holidays help ease their boredom. If their plans succeed, one day industry will be automated and underground, and Earth will once again be a paradise
- but only for the few at the top.

As for the rest of us, they envisage eradicating those who are not useful like termites.

Of course they will not necessarily succeed. In fighting could keep them crippled and termites are tough.