What if there is No God? At all!

Originally posted by Lilitu

Originally posted by sorennn
However, if your God exists, and he is a wholly merciful and all-powerful being, then he has the power to right these wrongs, does he not? But does he exercise this power? No, he doesn't, or at least he takes the most indirect and inefficient route possible in doing so, so that nobody can really tell.

I was attempting to point out to you my view that if this god of yours exists as you describe, in short, he's an ass.

I have in the past given the example of John Evander Couey the pedophile who brutally raped Jessica Lunsford and then buried her alive while a supposedly omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent god watched but did nothing to stop it. We have people locked away for life in super-max prisons who as bad as they are would not have stood by and watched this happen if there were anything they could do to stop it. I think it goes without saying that better than 99.99999% of humans would not have stood by as a helpless voyeur while Courey brutalized Jessica but this so-called god did exactly that.

Religionists will try in vain to excuse their voyeuristic god for such a heinous act of voyeurism by spewing nonsense like "his hands were tied" in the which case he is not omnipotent or that "god needed Jessica for a higher purpose in heaven" but then why not just zap her out of here instead of watching as Courey buried her alive? They would not show the same mercy to a human being who stood by watching. They would insist and rightly so that the voyeur be brought up on the same or similar charges as Courey.

To me there is only one "logical" explanation as to why a "righteous" god offered Jessica no help as she was brutally raped and buried alive. Gods and Goddesses are imaginary.

I take it you are not well versed in the bible. God gave this world to the power of Satan. He controls this world. God has said until the appointed time he will nolonger intervine with this world. He has given us our instructions and has left us. This life is a test for the next.

Originally posted by novacs4me

Originally posted by Lilitu

To me there is only one "logical" explanation as to why a "righteous" god offered Jessica no help as she was brutally raped and buried alive. Gods and Goddesses are imaginary.

God is not imaginary. He either answers to us, or we answer to Him. I know that He is perfectly loving, and perfectly just, because I know Jesus, who through His life has shown us the Father.

2 Timothy 3.1 says: "But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of stress. For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, inhuman, implacable, slanderers, profligates, fierce, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding the form of religion but denying the power of it."

We ARE in the last days. Unspeakably inhuman things are being done daily. You can either rail at God and blame Him, or you can prepare for Jesus' soon return.

While I agree with you on your views about god I have to disagree about the end days. According the verse you quoted here we would have been in the end days since the fall of adam and eve.

The people who post on Bible Prophecy Today are pretty much in agreement that the single most important sign that we are in the end times was the re-establishment of the Jewish nation in Israel in 1948. As far as the length of a generation would be, well, obviously if the Lord doesn't return soon they will be proven wrong. In my own family, my dad was born 55 years after his father was, and my dad's father was born 63 years after his father was. So the fact that it has been 61 years since the rebirth of Israel is not beyond the length of a generation.

Originally posted by Republican08
1) Do you think you're day to day life would change.
2) Would you change your behaviour.
3) Would you be harsher to people.
4) Would you strive harder in life, knowing your legacy is all there is?
5) Would anything change, would you continue on praying, knowing 100% in your heart you're praying to nothing, but your own imagination.

1. No
2. No
3. No
4. No
5. No, I don't pray anyway

Now if it was proven there was indeed a God then I might be inclined to change, but only if it was proven that said God was true to whichever of the plethora of religions out there and even then I would have to question whether or not I would be willing to change my views and behaviour to suit said God

The Bible speaks of three generation time lines - a 40, 70 and I've been told, a 120 year, as well. I haven't verified the 120 year one yet though.

However, we have obviously passed the 40 (given the 1948 date), so we have the 70 year which would give Earth 10 more years - or the 120, which would give us til 2068.

I'm personally thinking it will be closer to the '10 more year' scenario - the way things are going.

But if it is 2068, wow - 60 more years at the max. Skeery.

reply to post by Discotech


These things going on out in the world are happening for a reason - they are taking place as God's warning to us. And as time goes on, and things start really increasing in craziness and crisis, it is hoped that more and more people will turn back to, or turn to, God for their eternal salvation.

My point being - stick around and watch the fireworks. I believe as the days go by you will start seeing your 'proof'.

Originally posted by nomorecruelty
stick around and watch the fireworks.

You say that like you imagine I wouldn't wish to stick around and watch the fireworks ? I have somewhere else I can be ?

And I'll believe it when I see it, I'm not the sort who runs his life on blind faith, I much prefer using good logic, common sense and reason to live a healthy and enjoyable life.

But... each to their, whatever helps you through life is best and if that's blind faith in a deity or using logic or both then so be it as long as you're happy that's all that should matter

And I believe there could be a God, just not as describe in any of the religious doctrines made by man to control man, right now the only religion I would possibly follow is bhuddism which is more about inner peace & spirituality than the worship of a deity

Originally posted by nomorecruelty
reply to post by Discotech

 

These things going on out in the world are happening for a reason - they are taking place as God's warning to us. And as time goes on, and things start really increasing in craziness and crisis, it is hoped that more and more people will turn back to, or turn to, God for their eternal salvation.

Ok see your missing a big note to your argument. The reason the economy is the way it is is because "PEOPLE we elect into offices, senetes etc.. can not control there money. Plus companies find cheaper labor and rise there prices.

Suicidal bombers for example, it is THERE choice to blow them self up. No one is forcing them to.

My main point is. EVERYONE has a choice and that is how we live. We live on the choices we make every single day.

If I drink a beer and make the choice to drive I know I can end up in an accident or death.

If I make a choice to go party and hook up with a girl. I know what could happen, I could get something, or she could get pregnant. See its a choice. God isn't having any influence on me.

Originally posted by novacs4me
Here's my offer to XWEAPONX and to Lilitu: I'll read one book of your choosing if you will read Josh McDowell's 'Evidence that Demands a Verdict'. How about it? I have to make one request with this offer. Whatever book you choose, I need to be able to get it through my province's library system, as my financial resources are limited.

[edit on 14-7-2009 by novacs4me]

Ok....what book? But you got to read one of my books. I must go find the book I am talking about first okay?

Originally posted by nomorecruelty

The Bible speaks of three generation time lines - a 40, 70 and I've been told, a 120 year, as well. I haven't verified the 120 year one yet though.

However, we have obviously passed the 40 (given the 1948 date), so we have the 70 year which would give Earth 10 more years - or the 120, which would give us til 2068.

I'm personally thinking it will be closer to the '10 more year' scenario - the way things are going.

But if it is 2068, wow - 60 more years at the max. Skeery.

Now when we exceed the days of 120. It will prove it is all made up stuff.

How did Israel become a nation? Israel became a nation when there was word that the British were leaving. It was almost Sabbath (Friday night) and everyone thought it was the chance to make a state. A declaration was written without the name even put in and a makeshift ceremony took place in the basement of an art museum in Tel-Aviv. Later, while everyone was celebrating, the surrounding Arab countries attacked and Israel went to war. This was the War of Independence.

No proof of god, sorry.

reply to post by Republican08


1) My life would change whether its me changing it or not. Others around me (of faith based, regardless of their religion) would either cry out, rage out, or turn around and pray/meditate for everyone (or themselves) depending on their religion. I work around a lot of people (tons happen to be religious) and I can see a lot of them turning around and trying to condemn me or save me despite being disproven. My life would change because I would be exposed to more religious talk, morals, and so on.

2) I would not change my behavior. Such is life, we have figured out the worlds greatest secret (or have we? some will still ask). As is, I already fall under the category of an 'unbeliever' so to say. If there is a 'god', it certainly isn't the one from the bible and wanted nothing more than to create us and let us be. If there isn't a 'god', well I didn't lose much from my ideas anyways.

3) Harsher? Never. At first the outcries and disputes would go on, and eventually all would settle. Look at Greek and Roman mythology. Many years ago it was believed by many that we had Zeus, Apollo, Hercules and so on. Many years later, after it was pushed aside, it is no longer believed in (some may still but the margin would be comparatively small). Same with the Sumerians, Egyptians, etc. All are age old religions that we have passed on. Maybe one of them are correct, but we may never know.

4) Just because there is no 'god' would not mean there is no such thing as reincarnation, or anything else of the sort. (Some religions have been for and against reincarnation anyways, which is right?). Science may prove that reincarnation is true, and would mean a world different to those in the religious community (and non). Would be fun to put science into that and try to 'track' yourself more. Learn more about who we are and why we are here (just because there is no god does not mean we are not here for a purpose.. science admits nothing is wasted.. so why let nature/science create us?)

YET...

If it were proven that we really have just this one life (which I personally do not believe) the world could also turn for the better. You have one life to live, you really going to let something like depression take over your whole, one single solitary chance at life? You really going to live in hatred forever with someone when there is always a chance you might not ever get that last 'goodbye'?

5) As stated before, I personally do not have a religion nor believe in a 'god'. I do not doubt maybe an intelligent designer that wanted no other affairs with us, but even that I could let slip past my fingers. To me, the most important thing of all is to remember that "everything happens for a reason", EVERYTHING. May it be 'gods will', or just 'cause and effect', or maybe something we cannot comprehend.


The world would change, and try to fight against the news, but eventually all would die down in the end. May take years, but things come with time. First we believed in many gods, now we are down to just one. In time, we may take away that last and final god, and move on as a species. Finally realize we do not need a 'god' to govern our actions, and save us from our own destructions. In all of us, united as one, we have what it takes to live how we should and be happy, without resulting in an apocalypse to end it all.

reply to post by SLAYER69


I totally agree with you. I wouldn't change one bit. I already dont believe because i found myself to be so much happier and nicer and i strive toward making a mark on earth more now that i dont believe. If people didnt believe in god of course we would still argue about some things but people would definitely get along better and we would all be united in some way but you know even if it was extremely clear to see like it is already. Some people would not believe there is no god and still go on like there is one. SO I dont think it would change half of these hardcore religion people. They would not believe it. I KNOW there is no god because when you pray you either get wat you want or it doesnt happen. Religious people say if you get it then god answered your prayers but if you dont then he doesnt want you to have it for some reason how about instead of praying they actually try to get it for themselves. If i told people there was an invisible elephant that could see you at all times. You couldnt touch it see it or hear it. You just had to have faith in it and i wrote a book about it would they believe me. Of course not because its obviously not true just like the bible and all religions they are completely not true its just a matter of time before people do prove god doesnt exist.

reply to post by Discotech


I completely agree with you to. Thats what I tell people when they start on me about religion I would rather lead my life on logic and obvious truths than a book and nothing else. The bible should be classified under fiction.

It would suck. The Bible teaches us that wars and famine are a punishment for our sins. If we are truly doing these things to ourselves we SUCK. On the other hand here is a great article for you to think about;

If I were the devil ...

By Paul Harvey
© 2009 WorldNetDaily.com


I would gain control of the most powerful nation in the world;

I would delude their minds into thinking that they had come from man's effort, instead of God's blessings;

I would promote an attitude of loving things and using people, instead of the other way around;

I would dupe entire states into relying on gambling for their state revenue;

I would convince people that character is not an issue when it comes to leadership;

I would make it legal to take the life of unborn babies;

I would make it socially acceptable to take one's own life, and invent machines to make it convenient;

I would cheapen human life as much as possible so that the life of animals are valued more than human beings;

I would take God out of the schools, where even the mention of His name was grounds for a lawsuit;

I would come up with drugs that sedate the mind and target the young, and I would get sports heroes to advertise them;

I would get control of the media, so that every night I could pollute the mind of every family member for my agenda;

I would attack the family, the backbone of any nation.

I would make divorce acceptable and easy, even fashionable. If the family crumbles, so does the nation;

I would compel people to express their most depraved fantasies on canvas and movie screens, and I would call it art;

I would convince the world that people are born homosexuals, and that their lifestyles should be accepted and marveled;

I would convince the people that right and wrong are determined by a few who call themselves authorities and refer to their agenda as politically correct;

I would persuade people that the church is irrelevant and out of date, and the Bible is for the naive;

I would dull the minds of Christians, and make them believe that prayer is not important, and that faithfulness and obedience are optional;

I guess I would leave things pretty much the way they are

reply to post by Balone


Convenient. If I were the devil Id open my own nightclub, and maybe have my own brand of vodka.

reply to post by Balone


That's a nice thing to say, it's well worded, and linguistic at that.

Although, their are tribes in africa that have never seen outside humans, and have no contact, that we've only just discovered.

And I don't see them doing illegal activites, just surviving and breeding.

The false proposition that we need a "deity" to control us, throws away our free will. That we need a being to guide our daily lives.

Do the birds need a director to tell them when to poo on my car or what bugs to eat. No, they know it by trial and error.

Read through the first page, it seems you are struggling with the concept of morals and values.

Read up on Aristotle and Socrates, and define what is exactly "good". Good is a very good paradox in itself.

Calling what you don't like a work of satan, and saying others are tricked by satan, is a huge lapse in judgement. It doesn't allow you to look at how the brain works.

Maybe watch the movie history channel did, the Seven Deadly sins (which where 8 but the pope changed it to seven so it'd be a godly number lol)

And it explains how the seven deadly sins are all programmed in us, and even in our monkey brothers. That although our frontal lobe.... I could go on and on if you really want.

Originally posted by Bluebelle
reply to post by Balone

 

Convenient. If I were the devil Id open my own nightclub, and maybe have my own brand of vodka.

Hmmm....

Devils advocate for sure!

I'm not going to jump on the church, but if you even think of asking that or have any kind of doubts or even say to a christian friend int the south...oh boy you've just opened pandora's box. It's seems like somehow this seems to have started in the 80's this reversal of the open-mindedness and questioning and even doubting that was characteristic of the 60's and 70's. There is nothing wrong with having doubts or disbelieving god you not going to go to hell. god isn't going to send a lightening bolt up you butt. Even with a liberal president no seems to want to talk about it. Evolution seems to be a dirty word. I can't even seem keep on the positive about side while having doubts or having a non-traditional and non-monothiestic view of god. I keep saying negative things and jumping on people with a more traditional view of god. I'm just tired of all the negativity even from me. So how can we have a positive dialogue about god or about believing in god or disbelieving in god or being totally athiestic, It's hard to discuss it, even harder here where I live in the south.

reply to post by theEXxman




It's "god" awful in the South Isn't it, i'm in texas!

I feel your pain, I usually stay away, but they really want to hear my take on it, and end up prooving gods existance because the bible says so......which when you think about it, you're really questioning the bible too, your not taking everything in it as complete fact.

They run you in circles, one guy has a good avatar showing their tricks.

Then nothing will happen because there never was one in the first place!

You have a severe problem either way.
From your point of view you have a Creation by Design without a visible Creator and without a Redeemer ( one who has paid the price for your sin)
From my point of view, I have a Creator who has been revealed to me personally on all three levels of personal revelation. ( Spirit, Soul & Body)( there are 7 known attributes of visible Creation recognition)
( Adonai YHWH, ( Hebrew Telegrammaton) ( Father GOD, Creator of Everything, Holiest of All)
Adonai Ye'hoshua Ha Massiach) ((Lord Jesus the Christ) Word of God, Son of God, Lamb of God, Personal Saviour etc)),
Ruach Ha Kodesh ( Holy Spirit) yet One Family existing in Agreement & Harmony and Eternal ( life without end) who has at one point of time has designed & created everything we now see and have observed ( through a Limited Life-Time Span) either through the Fossil record or now presently living creatures. ( from exact time Period Biblically unknown( a 6000 year period was given to satan-The enemy of LORD GOD ( satan ( a created living entity) is the chief deceiver of Man, the Origin of Dis-Information as he is the god of this world system),to end of the Current Creation in Fire ( Book of Enoch & 2 Peter Chapters 2 & 3 ( Cause & Effect, why?), Book of Revelation ( Final Judgement & Re-Creation of everything except *mortal man (*Isaiah 13:12) current Time frame is running out fast.
All people who accept Lord Jesus Christ ( who paid the price for their sin by crucifixion on a Cross -Personal Redeemer- ( Galatians 3:1-29) as their Personal Saviour will be Saved, John 3:16-21) Adhering to the Word of God only and not giving place to man-made Religious Practices, Superstitions and False Teachings.
These Kingdom of God Principles have to be studied out in the Holy Bible ( King James Version, Amplified Version & Hebrew, Greek Septuagint)
(You are free to choose ( at this point) to become a member of the Kingdom Of LORD GOD)
We have genuine Word of God teachers here on Earth, please seek them out.




[edit on 15/7/2009 by Hartsford007]