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What if there is No God? At all!

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posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 11:11 AM
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Originally posted by sorennn
However, if your God exists, and he is a wholly merciful and all-powerful being, then he has the power to right these wrongs, does he not? But does he exercise this power? No, he doesn't, or at least he takes the most indirect and inefficient route possible in doing so, so that nobody can really tell.

I was attempting to point out to you my view that if this god of yours exists as you describe, in short, he's an ass.


I have in the past given the example of John Evander Couey the pedophile who brutally raped Jessica Lunsford and then buried her alive while a supposedly omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent god watched but did nothing to stop it. We have people locked away for life in super-max prisons who as bad as they are would not have stood by and watched this happen if there were anything they could do to stop it. I think it goes without saying that better than 99.99999% of humans would not have stood by as a helpless voyeur while Courey brutalized Jessica but this so-called god did exactly that.

Religionists will try in vain to excuse their voyeuristic god for such a heinous act of voyeurism by spewing nonsense like "his hands were tied" in the which case he is not omnipotent or that "god needed Jessica for a higher purpose in heaven" but then why not just zap her out of here instead of watching as Courey buried her alive? They would not show the same mercy to a human being who stood by watching. They would insist and rightly so that the voyeur be brought up on the same or similar charges as Courey.

To me there is only one "logical" explanation as to why a "righteous" god offered Jessica no help as she was brutally raped and buried alive. Gods and Goddesses are imaginary.




posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 11:55 AM
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Originally posted by Lilitu

To me there is only one "logical" explanation as to why a "righteous" god offered Jessica no help as she was brutally raped and buried alive. Gods and Goddesses are imaginary.


God is not imaginary. He either answers to us, or we answer to Him. I know that He is perfectly loving, and perfectly just, because I know Jesus, who through His life has shown us the Father.

2 Timothy 3.1 says: "But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of stress. For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, inhuman, implacable, slanderers, profligates, fierce, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding the form of religion but denying the power of it."

We ARE in the last days. Unspeakably inhuman things are being done daily. You can either rail at God and blame Him, or you can prepare for Jesus' soon return.



posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 12:31 PM
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Originally posted by novacs4me
We ARE in the last days. Unspeakably inhuman things are being done daily. You can either rail at God and blame Him, or you can prepare for Jesus' soon return.


And we've been in the last days for around 730,500 days, right?


Humans throughout their history have always had the propensity for committing "unspeakable" horrors and let's not overlook the fact that a great many of them were perpetrated in the name of your imaginary friend. If it seems worse now it is only because in the modern information age these atrocities are next to impossible to hide for long. Once the news breaks it goes global almost instantly. It has absolutely nothing to do with ergot inspired delusions of the "last days".



posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 12:42 PM
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Originally posted by Lilitu
And we've been in the last days for around 730,500 days, right?



No, we have only been in the last days since Israel became a nation again in 1948. Within one generation of that, the Lord will return.



posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 01:01 PM
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Originally posted by novacs4me

Originally posted by Lilitu
And we've been in the last days for around 730,500 days, right?



No, we have only been in the last days since Israel became a nation again in 1948. Within one generation of that, the Lord will return.


Oh well then the author of Hebrews and I stand corrected.


Funny how the span of a biblical generation keeps getting longer and longer. First it was 40 years, then 60, and now I hear there are some preachers saying it is 100 years. How long until a biblical generation is lengthened to the number of years Methuselah is imagined to have lived?


By the way you have not addressed any of the above points I made. How convenient, not to mention predictable.
So when Jessica was being brutally raped and buried alive why did Jesus just stand watching without so much as lifting a finger to help that poor child? Or is it the case that your imaginary fiend gets off on that sort of thing? Does Jesus like to watch??? What did he really mean when he said "suffer the children to come unto me"? Hmmmm.....



posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 01:12 PM
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If you take a look at previous posts by those who hate God, you will see that the more we Christians attempt to answer your questions, the more questions you pose, and all those questions NOT seeking answers, but seeking to ridicule and destroy. I have no desire to argue with you. Proverbs 18:19 says 'Anyone who loves to quarrel loves sin'. If you sincerely are interested in what I have to say, send me a U2U. Thanks!



posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 02:07 PM
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Originally posted by Water-tastes-good

If Christians are wrong, they have nothing to lose - however if atheists are wrong, they have it all to lose.
Another statement of christian faith based on fear. If you were really looking for the truth you would not make such a statement.


Oh but it is the truth that matters right cancerian42?

I think so.


Isn't God based on fear? Yeah. That's what God wanted so we would follow Him and gain life right? Yeah.

It depends on what you believe. The mainstream christian interpretation seems to be fear based, yes.


What truth exactly are you looking for anyway? If Jesus says He is "the way, the truth, and the life", then what the fellow you were addressing said has stated the truth.

I am looking for whatever truth I can find. But just because someone says something is true doesn't mean it is.


If fear is God and God is truth, this fellow has it down pact.

Yes, if.


However if your doubting and don't know, which I'm sure is your case, then through science your still looking for truth, if in case you don't believe in Evolution. It all depends on what you think truth is.

I am beyond doubting. And beyond science as well. Science is just another method of learning, but it is extraordinarily limited. I don't believe in anything much. I don't have any idea what the truth is. But I think I am getting tired of fiction.



posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 02:45 PM
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Ive not read through any of the other replies yet, but..

Personally for me, it wouldnt change much/anything. I sit on a fence somewhere inbetween being athiest and being agnostic.. so as long as I could still celebrate christmas, then I wouldnt be too wounded by the whole thing!

Thinking about it, it seems like if this ever happened then it would ultimately be a good thing. It would be one major possibility of how we came about crossed off the list... and think how much traffic ATS would get from all the new conspiracies that would be popping up to be discussed!

Another thought as well, if it was proved that God didnt exist, that wouldnt actually prove that we werent 'created' would it.. the people who believe we were would probably start theorising over idea that aliens put us here or something along those lines..



[edit on 13-7-2009 by Bluebelle]



posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 05:00 PM
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reply to post by MarcusEpictetus
 


Thank you for this thoughtful and beautifully written post. I, too, have thought about this issue, and have felt my life would not change a great deal in this event, either.

Personally, I have never been able to disregard human suffering. It is something I see every day, and something I try in whatever small way I might, to resolve, or to alleviate. It seems to be the way I am wired, and I don't think the lack of a Divine Power would negate that.

Again, thanks for the brilliant post. I enjoyed it immensely.



posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 05:11 PM
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reply to post by Bluebelle
 


I am actually more inclined to believe aliens dropped us off here, then I am in any religious text out there and what it is preaching, like you I do not believe what incans say, that we were all in bud shaped seeds then emerged and started breeding? Wtf, where do they get these ideas?

My main opposition to religion is, that it teaches us to know nothing of the universe, the universe is this big thing which can help life out for us in amazing ways, but by just saying god did it, and we're all going to die in a horrific battle, then have everything(or not!) revealed to us when we're dead (dead meaning not alive) is a huge cop out in life.

People are already turning away from churches mosques and their qurans, bibles, although a few are just twisting the words around, like with gay christians, they feel that that part in there was just an accident


It's not.

All in all, aliens dropped us off, is much nicer, then 2 humans started breeding, and now we have all these people (yet in reality, the race would of died from retardation and many many other genetic disorders)



posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 05:15 PM
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reply to post by Republican08
 


If alien's dropped us off, then isn't that scientology? Seriously, this may be a little on the off-topic side, but people all over ATS are always saying Aliens engineered humans.

Scientology?



posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 05:21 PM
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reply to post by ladyinwaiting
 


Lol, I didn't think of it like that, I think scientology, is more emotions are alien spirits, and whatever.


It might actually be kind of scientology, although a few scientists back in the day came to this theory, and were laughed out by their christian peers.

I'm just saying, though, if it's hard for you to believe in scientology, and mormonism, how can you believe in something so far away.

My main consensus out of this whole thread, was that god need not exist.

Noones life would change, we'd all be fine, so why do I get people bringing up morals and values, that we're so ignorant, that if we didn't believe in god, we'd just start shooting people randomly. I have more faith in humanity than that!

I mean c'mon, the only reason god is a topic, in life, is he's a great imaginary friend, someone you can talk to who always listen, a safety blanket you pray to in hopes, and if it doesn't work out, then you're imaginary friend just tells you hey it wasn't the right thing then.

Really, it's time to grow up now, and realize we're just talking to ourselves.

I don't see why deities, need ten percent of my wage, me lighting candles and singing literally "god awful" songs.

And attend a place where everyone smells like aspririn, pee, and one quart of old people perfume. Wherever they get that stuff at is beyond me.

Then free will kicks in at it's a whole nother thread waiting to happen!



posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 05:35 PM
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reply to post by Republican08
 


The "free will" thread has already happened. (see, Hazelnut).

But Republican, I am happy to hear that you have faith in humanity. I truely am. Sometimes, you can come straight-up with a pearl.
(Amongst many stones)
just kidding!

Thanks for your take on Scientology.



posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 05:41 PM
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reply to post by ladyinwaiting
 


For the most part I think humanity is extremely messed up, but not all bad, I mean, I don't think trivial things like religion, or gov't trully effect us and who we are.

Although, I can't see us staying around much longer, it's one thing to live in a society of trees and such, but we have really no handle on technology, and that's where its at!

If we figure that out will be alright, most ats members are general population people, kind hearted good people, I try not to look at youtube videos, cause I don't see them as real people, or people who would act like that in public, if so... oh boy.

Yay a pearl though, no more fools gold!



posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 06:23 PM
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If there would be no god then it would upset me, there would be no hope and yes we would be in existence for nothing.

Life is too short to learn anything at all, to learn my self and understand something out of all of this so I hope this is not it. Who knows maybe there is a cycle or something else, an afterlife or a system of some sort that adds my self to a collective or something after I'm gone from this world.

If none of this will happen then it's all for nothing, we live for nothing and everything is a joke. Why study and learn if when we are gone it is like it never was, then what is the point in all of this in learning and earning experience. It has no logic in learning something if I am not able to
keep that knowlege.


I have expectations, I am believer, I think something is or at worst might be and sometimes in very rare moments I think what if this is all a joke.

If it is a prank, I do not think it is a prank but if "what if" then everything
is worthless because we live for nothing and since no one got out alive out of life then what is the point. I would live the rest of my days sad.



posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 06:39 PM
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reply to post by Republican08
 


Yea, I think the whole concept of aliens possibly being involved in our 'creation' is one of the things that stops me from being a full on athiest. Maybe that 2% difference between us and apes could be alien? Who knows!
One of the main things that bothers me about religion is that like you've said 'it teaches us to know nothing about the universe'. It gives no hint at all that there's anything out there apart from God. There's not even any remote mention of the universe, only us, heaven, and hell. Seems like a pretty big thing not to mention!
And Ive written this in another thread already but applies here as well I guess... religions answer to the questions we dont know seem to be 'you just cant comprehend the answers', or 'have faith'. What sort of life is it to have the instinct to want to learn new thing and explore the universe, but spend the whole time repressing that. At least science goes through the logical process of trial and error, instead of having the 'thats just how it is' attitude.

Only problem with the idea of aliens being involved is that it doesnt explain where THEY came from... confusing stuff


An even more confusing question is assuming we were created, and that there is an afterlife.. what is the ultimate goal? Ive read stuff about how we become enlightened, learn things & whatnot.. but what are we working towards? When does the learning become complete?



posted on Jul, 14 2009 @ 08:25 AM
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No, we have only been in the last days since Israel became a nation again in 1948. Within one generation of that, the Lord will return.


Sorry to say but if you go back in history people thought there were in the last days. These last days you say are just a bunch of smoke you blow up in peoples face.

Every time we ask a simple question you give us the bull crap read the bible. How about screw the bible. I'm not going to waste time reading a book that has no truth in it. It's been proven the bible has been rewritten over the years, It has been proven church's completely lie to people and brainwash them. And for all the people who say they don't. Sorry to say they do.

I don't hate god or anything. I just keep my mind open and there is no proof a god exist. There is not proof Jesus existed. It is completely a waste of time. I'm done with this thread, maybe you'll get a life instead of reading a book full of lies.

It was written by man. If there was a god he would WRITE it there self. Ever think of that?

Oh and the bible said there will be wars and rumors of wars. Guess what! There's been WARS since the beginning of time. There's been over hundreds of wars. Some wars caused by religion.

Also the bible spoke about floods, Guess what! There are floods all the time. There have been floods that flooded complete city's. Again the bible says false information.

So sorry to tell you again, the end of days is not here.



Source:
ALL CLAIMS OF JESUS DERIVE FROM HEARSAY ACCOUNTS

No one has the slightest physical evidence to support a historical Jesus; no artifacts, dwelling, works of carpentry, or self-written manuscripts. All claims about Jesus derive from writings of other people. There occurs no contemporary Roman record that shows Pontius Pilate executing a man named Jesus. Devastating to historians, there occurs not a single contemporary writing that mentions Jesus. All documents about Jesus got written well after the life of the alleged Jesus from either: unknown authors, people who had never met an earthly Jesus, or from fraudulent, mythical or allegorical writings. Although one can argue that many of these writings come from fraud or interpolations, I will use the information and dates to show that even if these sources did not come from interpolations, they could still not serve as reliable evidence for a historical Jesus, simply because all sources derive from hearsay accounts.

Hearsay means information derived from other people rather than on a witness' own knowledge.

Courts of law do not generally allow hearsay as testimony, and nor does honest modern scholarship. Hearsay provides no proof or good evidence, and therefore, we should dismiss it.

If you do not understand this, imagine yourself confronted with a charge for a crime which you know you did not commit. You feel confident that no one can prove guilt because you know that there exists no evidence whatsoever for the charge against you. Now imagine that you stand present in a court of law that allows hearsay as evidence. When the prosecution presents its case, everyone who takes the stand against you claims that you committed the crime, not as a witness themselves, but solely because other people said so. None of these other people, mind you, ever show up in court, nor can anyone find them.

Hearsay does not work as evidence because we have no way of knowing whether the person lies, or simply bases his or her information on wrongful belief or bias. We know from history about witchcraft trials and kangaroo courts that hearsay provides neither reliable nor fair statements of evidence. We know that mythology can arise out of no good information whatsoever. We live in a world where many people believe in demons, UFOs, ghosts, or monsters, and an innumerable number of fantasies believed as fact taken from nothing but belief and hearsay. It derives from these reasons why hearsay cannot serves as good evidence, and the same reasoning must go against the claims of a historical Jesus or any other historical person.

Authors of ancient history today, of course, can only write from indirect observation in a time far removed from their aim. But a valid historian's own writing gets cited with sources that trace to the subject themselves, or to eyewitnesses and artifacts. For example a historian today who writes about the life of George Washington, of course, can not serve as an eyewitness, but he can provide citations to documents which give personal or eyewitness accounts. None of the historians about Jesus give reliable sources to eyewitnesses, therefore all we have remains as hearsay.

[edit on 14-7-2009 by xweaponx]

[edit on 14-7-2009 by xweaponx]



posted on Jul, 14 2009 @ 08:42 AM
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There is an old quote that I think you should hear. I'm not sure who said it. "If there was no God man would create one" The human race as a whole would not be able to accept that there is no God, no afterlife, nothing after you die. Me myself while I could accept that there is no God as we believe in now I would be unable to believe that there was nothing. That after I die thats it. Weather it's reincarnation movement to a higher plane, something. You could show me un-denialable proof that there is no God and after we die thats it, and I would not believe you. I think that most of the world would be the same. We are to selfish of a race to not believe there is no one ment to look after us. It's human nature to do things that we know are wrong and in our regret we will always look toward a higher being for forgivness. (someone to blame for our shortcomings) But that is the beauty of religon. It is ingrained into us. We are born with a sense of spirtuilty (thats diffrent then religon) From the monment man could ask the question "why?" the concept of god or the gods was born to explain all of our unexplainable items. There is absolutly no science that could ever destroy that with in us.



posted on Jul, 14 2009 @ 08:44 AM
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If you would watch Day of Discovery or Naked Archeologist, you would see that archeology is revealing more and more the historical accuracy of the Bible. But of course, you would turn the channel rather than consider the possibility that you might be wrong.



posted on Jul, 14 2009 @ 09:11 AM
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Here's my offer to XWEAPONX and to Lilitu: I'll read one book of your choosing if you will read Josh McDowell's 'Evidence that Demands a Verdict'. How about it? I have to make one request with this offer. Whatever book you choose, I need to be able to get it through my province's library system, as my financial resources are limited.

[edit on 14-7-2009 by novacs4me]



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