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What if there is No God? At all!

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posted on Jul, 12 2009 @ 11:05 PM
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Daniel and Revelation sure have alot of people prophesied in detail -

This has to be the generation spoken of in the Bible that is full of vanity and evil and refuses to listen or gain knowledge.

If Christians are wrong, they have nothing to lose - however if atheists are wrong, they have it all to lose.

High stakes I'd say?





posted on Jul, 12 2009 @ 11:31 PM
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Originally posted by nomorecruelty
This has to be the generation spoken of in the Bible that is full of vanity and evil and refuses to listen or gain knowledge.

I think it is actually opposite, as I see it this age of information is opening its' mind towards new things and vanity and evil are not more prevalent today than in any other time in history as far as I can tell, but there isn't really any way to measure that other than personal opinion.

If Christians are wrong, they have nothing to lose - however if atheists are wrong, they have it all to lose.

Another statement of christian faith based on fear. If you were really looking for the truth you would not make such a statement.



posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 01:12 AM
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Originally posted by nomorecruelty

If Christians are wrong, they have nothing to lose - however if atheists are wrong, they have it all to lose.

High stakes I'd say?


This quote is so very telling about the nature of faith in this modern world and the god supposedly responsible for it. You have reduced religious belief to an option in a high stakes gambling competition, where you attempt to sway those more discerning than yourself onto side through fear and the promise of "goodie-gumdrops" (eternal bliss). Does your god really prefer those who feign belief and follow him because of the threat of eternal torture or the prospect of personal gain, over the honest and benign unbeliever who lives unable to satisfied with the evidence brought before him?

What kind of god is this? Certainly not one worth anybody's admiration or worship, that we can be sure of. He who would prefer to surround himself with sycophants over those who display honest skepticism.

I don't meant to demean any honest believers here, but those who bring forth Pascal's wager type arguments to the floor really tend to frustrate me.

And on the contrary, what about the high price that you would pay if other religious philosophies were proven true? If Islam were proven correct, you'd be cast to the flames just as I would.

1) Do you think you're day to day life would change.
I think my day to day life would change, certainly. Islamic terrorism in the middle-east would be cast from the agenda, and other conflicts involving religion (Northern Ireland, say) would settle down. We'd be in for a more peaceful existence.

2) Would you change your behaviour.
Obviously wouldn't.

3) Would you be harsher to people.
No.

4) Would you strive harder in life, knowing your legacy is all there is?
No.

5) Would anything change, would you continue on praying, knowing 100% in your heart you're praying to nothing, but your own imagination.
Never have.



posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 01:21 AM
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Your making me laugh so hard, God doesn't work through doctors. Who brainwashed you again to believe that? You go to college and learn medicine for 7 years and then your a doctor.


God does work through people. No one brainwashed me. No one in my family partly enjoys the fact of God either. Why do people go to College to learn medicine? You just don't up and decide to go my friend. Something in your heart tells you that this is the career for you. Kinda like you know this was what you were born to do.


The Bible says God is almighty who answers your prayers. So how do you know if God is real other than that faith crap? Try the power of prayer when an earthly situation occurs which is beyond your control and only an almighty God who created the universe and all life can control.


Yeah, God is Almighty and answers prayers. How do I know God is real? It's simple really. I have consciouness not to mention a physical reality, emotional feeling, spiritual enlightenment, and I'll throw in my soul just for kicks. Oh, and He has answered some of my prayers. Science will not explain everything and God fits the puzzle pieces. We are in such an intricate masterpiece, which is Earth, that even if you don't go for God but for science, it's extremely lucky we have life. We all take it for granite though. Look up the term tidally locked and then tell me how lucky we are we have this existence.


Suppose you or a close family member has a terminal disease like cancer which cannot be medically cured? A certain time line is given, so like all hopeful human beings, you humbly and diligently pray to the almighty God who says in the Bible he answers prayers. Time and reality passes, the disease takes it's toll, and your prayers go unanswered.


Read The book of Job in the Bible. Your arguing against God yet don't even know Him. Again, I encourage you to read about Saint Gemma and after that, try learning about Jesus and what He went through. Take life for what you have, not be angry with God because He doesn't do things your way. I get cancer? Oh well. He doesn't answer that prayer? Oh well. Will I sit and mope? No. Why should I whine because I might die? I won't. I can also say God will heal me. Either through my body or my mind. Mind to help me focus. God will help you if you believe and really have faith in Him. He will answer. Trust me. It works and I've seen many many miracles. He has a plan for you my friend. It's up to you to follow it.



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posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 01:49 AM
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Maybe one in a million may be saved, but looking at a 99.9999% failure rate for prayer is evidence that God does not exist. Now, compare it to an atheist who suffers the same terminal disease and wishes for healing. The same 99.9999% failure rate occurs.


Why base prayer off of scientific or better psychological statistics? It has none. You either believe or you don't. There is no carnial/luke-warm Christians. God doesn't answer every prayer. People never realize that they have the power to make true some of their prayers yet never take the first step and then hope God places them in the situation through chance. He is not a Genie. Stop praying for things that you clearly have control over and also not through selfishness. If I pray for God to keep my mother healthy and alive the next day, then I call her up to see if she is alright after 24 hours and if she is, I'm pretty sure God answered my prayer. If not, then there is a meaning and a plan behind it. If you didn't find the answer you were looking for, I again suggest you take it up with God.


Now compare it to a devout Muslim suffering the same terminal disease and prays to his/her god for healing, and still results in a 99.9999% failure rate. Similarly, the Hindu, Jew, Buddhist, etc... all face 99.9999% failure rates.


Again, basing prayer off statistics. Everyone has a different form of energy about faith in prayer. In my opinion, Allah is not real so therefore Muslims are not talking to God so how can God answer the prayer? My vote is, chance decides their prayers, not God. Also, give me a link to all these 99.9999% failure rates. I would most like to see them if you would be so kind?



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posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 02:23 AM
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...even if you don't go for God but for science, it's extremely lucky we have life. We all take it for granite though.


I don't know how you managed that.


Originally posted by Water-tastes-good
God does work through people. No one brainwashed me. Why do people go to College to learn medicine? You just don't up and decide to go my friend. Something in your heart (*brain*) tells you that this is the career for you. Kinda like you know this was what your were born to do.


This is just an assertion and doesn't really hold any weight, but just very quickly: What about the homeless? Has god simply lost interest in these people, or does his master-plan include the the existence of such horrific mistreatment?



Yeah, God is Almighty and answers prayers. How do I know God is real? It's simple really. I have consciouness not to mention a physical reality, emotional feeling, spiritual enlightenment, and I'll throw in my soul just for kicks. Oh, and He has answered some of my prayers. Science will not explain everything and God fits the puzzle pieces. We are in such an intricate masterpiece, which is Earth, that even if you don't go for God but for science, it's extremely lucky we have life. We all take it for granite though. Look up the term tidally locked and then tell me how lucky we are we have this existence.


I exist, therefore god exists. And you seem to know that this is god is the god that you specifically subscribe to. Brilliant. Is this an attempt at the argument 'I am created, therefore a creator must exist, as something can't come from nothing'? I ask you, if everything requires creation, what created your god?

Science is working on it.

Oh, and I'm not going to be convinced by 'Isn't the world beautiful? Must have been designed.'



Read The book of Job in the Bible. Your arguing against God yet don't even know Him. Again, I encourage you to read about Saint Gemma and after that, try learning about Jesus and what He went through. Take life for what you have, not be angry with God because He doesn't do things your way. I get cancer? Oh well. He doesn't answer that prayer? Oh well. Will I sit and mope? No. Why should I whine because I might die? I won't. I can also say God will heal me. God will help you if you believe and really have faith in Him. He will answer.


Well, I've got my 'New English Bible: Standard Edition' right here, but the story your talking about goes for like 50 pages, and I'm, quite frankly, not willing to sacrifice my entire night and risk failing literature just to read a story that starts with the words 'THERE LIVED IN THE LAND OF UZ...' Studying the bible is a worthwhile pursuit if one wishes to understand much of history and certain pieces of literature, but asking others to read the story in an argument like this is kind of unreasonable.

Instead, explain to us how The book of Job is relevant and you may there have a point.

Anyway, so the god of the Christian scriptures is omniscient and all-powerful, yes? Hell, the guy created the universe, I'm sure he can handle destroying a few cancerous cells here and there, or he could simply prevent them from being brought into existence in the first place, couldn't he? But he doesn't.

If you had the power to cure cancer, save millions of lives, but didn't, would you consider yourself a moral person?

I submit that attempting to demonstrate the immorality of your god is a pointless pursuit, as you'll no doubt turn around and tell me that "he had higher plans for them" or something. But I do want to make this point: If you wish to credit your god with the beautiful sands and the seas, the great mountains and the glorious rainforests, you must also credit him with the great number of horrors that stalk our world. Your god is the god of leprosy, stillbirth, blood disease and flesh-eating bacteria.

He is not simply the god of rabbits and fun.

(bit long, wasn't it?)



posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 02:36 AM
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Doesn't this indicate you you that there is no God? Perhaps one of the numerous worshiped gods do exist, but wouldn't that omnipotent god produce better than a 99.9999% failure rate, or else what is the purpose of worshiping that god if he doesn't answer your prayers? Doesn't common logic and sense exist anymore?
If there was a true healer then there wouldn't be all these people who are sick and dieing. Man wrote the bible because "things" could not be explained at that time.


Nothing indicates to me that there isn't a God. How about this, take it up with God about His problem about producing better than a 99.9999% failure rate of prayers instead of asking me for the answers. Look at definition of worship. Read Exodus. Find out what worshiping is. Well to me, this is common logic and sense. I have sense that if God can create, He also has the means to destroy. I see that as common logic. I also see that if He is a jealous God, then that would explain why we have feelings. I also see why Jesus said in John 10:10 "The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." Common logic and sense points out that He is saying He is not trying to steal your life, but to give you life. Makes sense to me anyway.


Now, I have tried that being saved stuff. Doesn't WORK! It's all a bunch of role playing brain washed zombies believing in a god that doesn't excist.


Doesn't work uh? It's really that hard to read the Bible and accept Jesus as the way, the truth, and the life? I guess you doubt Him because you can't see Him? It's not about what we can see that matters, but what we can't. You can call me whatever you like, there is nothing brainwashed about believing in God. If anything, I learned to love and forgive more than anything. Others that make a mockery of God use Him to their advantage to accomplish mundane acts that make headlines. Then people have the audacity to blame God for it.

My friend, you don't know Him and you surely don't understand the love that He gives. Read the Bible. This is not a man preaching in a church that may babble on for hours about nothing. This is the real stuff that churches seldom use to teach others the lessons of God. I know, I'm still having trouble finding a perfectly adequate church that knows how to teach. Don't be angry at God because of man, be angry at man because of man. But love and forgive man. Read the Bible and learn the truth for yourself instead of me giving you answers to your questions. Listen to what God has to say about them. Far surpasses my knowledge buddy. The answers are within you and the Bible is the key. God gave that to us free of charge. Then, you will feel the joy that God did again for us. Sent Jesus to die for us so that we may be forgiven for all the sins that we've done to ourselves and to others. Great stuff.

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posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 02:45 AM
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I don't know how you managed that.


I can understand the sarcasm but to answer your question, it's quite easy.


This is just an assertion and doesn't really hold any weight, but just very quickly: What about the homeless? Has god simply lost interest in these people, or does his master-plan include the the existence of such horrific mistreatment?.


What about the homeless? Hmm, do we give them a chance? Better yet, how about you go to a major city and ask a homeless person why they didn't go for their dreams? How about we ask them how many people help them out of love and respect instead of just telling them off, giving them money, or food, but actually help setting a plan for them? Has God lost interest? Not that I know of. Many people that love and don't believe in God help the poor. I'd say there is a master plan in helping in there. Why don't you ask Him that question instead of me anyway? Mistreatment? God mistreated homeless people. How about people mistreat people? Way to point the finger.


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posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 02:51 AM
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reply to post by Republican08
 



Such a "revelation"
wouldn't change a thing for most religionists. They are delusional after all. It would change things greatly for organized religion however. It would see a rapid decline and disappear within three or four generations.



posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 03:07 AM
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I exist, therefore god exists. And you seem to know that this is god is the god that you specifically subscribe to. Brilliant. Is this an attempt at the argument 'I am created, therefore a creator must exist, as something can't come from nothing'? I ask you, if everything requires creation, what created your god?


Again, another one of you eh? It would benefit you if you read the Bible and found the answers but again I will direct you to a great passage that I think is "brilliant". It's a very popular verse yet trying to understand it is anyone's guess and I am not even going to try. No man will know the answer. God simply is. But, if you really want to know what created God, again, I advise you ask Him. Here: Revelation 22:12-13.


Science is working on it.


Alright. I'll hold it to the scienists or rather "man" to explain my being.


Oh, and I'm not going to be convinced by 'Isn't the world beautiful? Must have been designed.


Regardless what you believe, the world does have beautiful qualities. You don't have to be convinced by that.


Well, I've got my 'New English Bible: Standard Edition' right here, but the story your talking about goes for like 50 pages, and I'm, quite frankly, not willing to sacrifice my entire night and risk failing literature just to read a story that starts with the words 'THERE LIVED IN THE LAND OF UZ...' Studying the bible is a worthwhile pursuit if one wishes to understand much of history and certain pieces of literature, but asking others to read the story in an argument like this is kind of unreasonable.


You have your Bible but rather debate with me instead all night? Not the smartest of choices in my opinion. Don't fail literature by all means but your last sentence is irrelevant. You won't read a story because I told you too, yet I wasn't addressing you? What's unreasonable to read the story of Job to answer a question? I'm confused?


Instead, explain to us how The book of Job is relevant and you may there have a point.


Well, I would love too but seeing as you just claimed you have a Bible with that story in it, I now think that's unreasonable for me to explain it to you. You have the means to find the relevance in Job within your hands but instead wish to hear what I have to say. Stick with God's word instead of mine.



[edit on 13-7-2009 by Water-tastes-good]



posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 03:25 AM
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Anyway, so the god of the Christian scriptures is omniscient and all-powerful, yes? Hell, the guy created the universe, I'm sure he can handle destroying a few cancerous cells here and there, or he could simply prevent them from being brought into existence in the first place, couldn't he? But he doesn't.


Yeah He doesn't. Instead, He gave disease and cancer to us. You know why? The answer is in the Bible. Yeah, I went there. Read Job.


If you had the power to cure cancer, save millions of lives, but didn't, would you consider yourself a moral person?


No one is moral. No one is blameless. No one is good. We have all sinned so therefore we are bad. Killing someone is the same price tag as lying in God's standards. No one is moral. Am I moral, no. Do I try to be good? Yes. Would I cure people. Yes. I would cure people because I don't set paths for people. God does. I don't have plans for people. God does. But it's all in a cure right? Lets hope scientists find it with all the money they've received. But, if we can't, I wonder why?


I submit that attempting to demonstrate the immorality of your god is a pointless pursuit, as you'll no doubt turn around and tell me that "he had higher plans for them" or something. But I do want to make this point: If you wish to credit your god with the beautiful sands and the seas, the great mountains and the glorious rainforests, you must also credit him with the great number of horrors that stalk our world. Your god is the god of leprosy, stillbirth, blood disease and flesh-eating bacteria.


No doubt I would refute what you had to say but not because of "higher plans" even though that may be a factor, but because of the message He was bringing to us. When there is good, there is bad. Why would He choose Noah out of all people to build the Ark? Ask Him? Read the Bible and ask Him yourself. Look at today and see how his messages in the Bible turned out. Not so good if I had my opinion in it. But instead, we all worry about being dead than being alive. But of course, that's what life is about right? Surviving? Not loving, that's for sure. Both Christians and non-Christians are rather to blame if your pointing the finger again. Which I am this time. And the finger is pointing at me too.


He is not simply the god of rabbits and fun.


Well, there is more to Him than rabbits and fun but He is the one and only God of those, yes.


(bit long, wasn't it?)


Very, now I advise you get some sleep and do well on your class tommorrow. Good luck buddy!

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posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 03:38 AM
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Originally posted by Water-tastes-good

I don't know how you managed that.



This is just an assertion and doesn't really hold any weight, but just very quickly: What about the homeless? Has god simply lost interest in these people, or does his master-plan include the the existence of such horrific mistreatment?.


What about the homeless? Hmm, do we give them a chance? Better yet, how about you go to a major city and ask a homeless person why they didn't go for their dreams? How about we ask them how many people help them out of love and respect instead of just telling them off, giving them money, or food, but actually help setting a plan for them? Has God lost interest? Not that I know of. Many people that love and and don't believe in God help the poor. I'd say there is a master plan in helping in there. Why don't you ask Him that question instead of me anyway? Mistreatment? God mistreated homeless people. How about people mistreat people? Way to point the finger.



I'll ask these in a kind of random order, if you don't mind.

I'm not asking God these questions (quite obviously, I'd of thought) because I have no good reason to believe he exists. Why are you asking me these questions? Why not ask your God why I'm asking you these questions instead of consulting me?

I understand that people help the homeless, both believers, inspired by their good books, and non-believers, but these are PEOPLE, not god. Their actions may, in some cases, be divinely inspired, but as far as either of us can ascertain, no celestial beings are involved. And despite the efforts of these righteous beings, many in the homeless community nonetheless live in barely tolerable conditions.

I don't blame this on the incapabilities of the charitable, but on society more broadly. In other words, people do mistreat people, yes, I'm aware.

However, if your God exists, and he is a wholly merciful and all-powerful being, then he has the power to right these wrongs, does he not? But does he exercise this power? No, he doesn't, or at least he takes the most indirect and inefficient route possible in doing so, so that nobody can really tell.

I was attempting to point out to you my view that if this god of yours exists as you describe, in short, he's an ass. Surely if you, like him, had the power to right these wrongs and provide these men and women with better circumstances then you would. All of us would.

Or can't he? Why not? What am I misunderstanding?

I don't want to seem like I'm just sad because your God doesn't do everything for me, but I hold him to the same kind of moral standards as everybody else, and if a human being had the power to help another significantly, at no cost or inconvenience to himself, but chose not to I would consider him (you guessed it) an ass.

Am I misunderstanding your interpretation of god?



posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 03:45 AM
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If Christians are wrong, they have nothing to lose - however if atheists are wrong, they have it all to lose.
Another statement of christian faith based on fear. If you were really looking for the truth you would not make such a statement.


Oh but it is the truth that matters right cancerian42?

Isn't God based on fear? Yeah. That's what God wanted so we would follow Him and gain life right? Yeah.

What truth exactly are you looking for anyway? If Jesus says He is "the way, the truth, and the life", then what the fellow you were addressing said has stated the truth. If fear is God and God is truth, this fellow has it down pact. If you believe in God of course. So if this fellow believes that God is real, then he has found truth. However if your doubting and don't know, which I'm sure is your case, then through science your still looking for truth, if in case you don't believe in Evolution. It all depends on what you think truth is.



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posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 03:57 AM
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Originally posted by Water-tastes-good
Again, another one of you eh? It would benefit you if you read the Bible and found the answers but again I will direct you to a great passage that I think is "brilliant". It's a very popular verse yet trying to understand it is anyone's guess and I am not even going to try. No man will know the answer. God simply is. But, if you really want to know what created God, again, I advise you ask Him. Here: Revelation 22:12-13.


Okay, just before I continue (I've just looked it up) these are the lines that involve the sentence: 'I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.' Yes?

Well, it sounds awfully poetic, but he's not really one for detail, is he? Thanks for pointing that out for me, it's interesting, certainly, but I think we both know that I'm not going to accept that for an answer and that continuing along these lines would be futile for both us, seeing as you submit that 'no man will know the answer' or indeed be able to properly interpret the line.


Regardless what you believe, the world does have beautiful qualities. You don't have to be convinced by that.

I certainly don't and wouldn't contest it. What I meant was, I'm not going to be convinced by the argument that because the world may, to some at least, look designed (due partially to its beauty) that it therefore is designed (by some sort of god).


You have your Bible but rather debate with me instead all night? Not the smartest of choices in my opinion. Don't fail literature by all means but your last sentence is irrelevant. You won't read a story because I told you too, yet I wasn't addressing you? What's unreasonable to read the story of Job to answer a question? I'm confused?

No, no, no, I meant your request for me to read the story is unreasonable (for myself) because I have this big ass literature assignment (due tomorrow) awaiting my attention as we speak. I also think it's a little much, in this kind of argument, to expect people to read through 50 pages of text to satisfy your interests (prove your point, I mean, I know that you feel it would be in my interests). On the other hand, if you were to highlight the sections relevant to the issue at hand, that would be perfectly acceptable in my view (and in my circumstances).



Well, I would love too but seeing as you just claimed you have a Bible with that story in it, I now think that's unreasonable for me to explain it to you. You have the means to find the relevance in Job within your hands but instead wish to hear what I have to say. Stick with God's word instead of mine.

I understand that, but for the reasons stated above, I'm not going to be able to. Perhaps when I'm less busy, I'm sorry.

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posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 04:13 AM
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You need to get some sleep buddy.


I'll ask these in a kind of random order, if you don't mind.


No, go ahead.


I'm not asking God these questions (quite obviously, I'd of thought) because I have no good reason to believe he exists. Why are you asking me these questions? Why not ask your God why I'm asking you these questions instead of consulting me?


Now this is interesting. I worship God. The God that has created this world. And you don't want to talk to him but rather me because your asking me, not God right? Yet the questions pertain to God right? But I am not God right? So therefore why not ask Him? Believing or not? Why are you asking me these questions? You don't believe in Him. Simple. Why consult Him further?


I understand that people help the homeless, both believers, inspired by their good books, and non-believers, but these are PEOPLE, not god. Their actions may, in some cases, be divinely inspired, but as far as either of us can ascertain, no celestial beings are involved. And despite the efforts of these righteous beings, many in the homeless community nonetheless live in barely tolerable conditions.


True, but God works through people. He says our body is His Holy Temple. A temple is a place God resides. That right there states He works through us. Regardless we know it or not. Regardless we believe or not. You don't have to believe celestial beings inspired our actions. Many don't. I don't believe celestial beings have because I don't define God that way. As for the living conditions. Do they matter? All you need is a place to eat/sleep/bathroom. That's what shelters are right? That's what homes have right? So barely tolerable conditions? How have our ancestors lived through the beginning of time? They survived quite fine if I recall right.


I don't blame this on the incapabilities of the charitable, but on society more broadly. In other words, people do mistreat people, yes, I'm aware.


That's good you see that.


However, if your God exists, and he is a wholly merciful and all-powerful being, then he has the power to right these wrongs, does he not? But does he exercise this power? No, he doesn't, or at least he takes the most indirect and inefficient route possible in doing so, so that nobody can really tell.


It's called free-will. I can choose to listen to what He tells me but I don't have to follow His instructions. He rights wrongs all the time in the Bible if you go through it trying to find the message instead of trying to disprove it. You ask again why He allows these things to happen. Again I tell you to ask Him since you won't read the Bible. These questions aren't for me but for Him and you know it. You have a problem with how things are and blame God because of it. Pointing the finger gets nowhere. Plus, you have no right to say that He doesn't exercise His power right because you don't know. It's funny how there is so much evil in the world and the only thing people seem to see is evil and hating God for allowing it. Surely it's His purpose to torture and kill us. He never mentions there is love in this world. That He is a loving God. He is nothing but hate because of allowing evil. Blame God will ya? Blame our great-great-great-great-many greats more grandfather, Adam.



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posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 04:20 AM
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Yeah He doesn't. Instead, He gave disease and cancer to us. You know why? The answer is in the Bible. Yeah, I went there. Read Job.

Ahaha. On the to-do list.



No one is moral. No one is blameless. No one is good. We have all sinned so therefore we are bad. Killing someone is the same price tag as lying in God's standards. No one is moral. Am I moral, no. Do I try to be good? Yes. Would I cure people. Yes. I would cure people because I don't set paths for people. God does. I don't have plans for people. God does. But it's all in a cure right? Lets hope scientists find it with all the money they've received. But, if we can't, I wonder why?

I understand this (though personally I don't think anything should be punishable gigantic tumor to the face) and, in a way, it does make a kind of sense for most people. However, a question: What about stillborn children (those that die in the uterus, during delivery or labor)? How have they sinned? Is this a punishment for the parents, perhaps? How is it justified that God should take those lives?

(I'm beginning to realise that if I continue with this kind of question, the only real conclusive answer I'm ever going to get is along the lines of 'ask him yourself', 'we simply don't have all the answers' or (god forbid) 'Read Job!' So you can disregard that If you like.)


No doubt I would refute what you had to say but not because of "higher plans" even though that may be a factor, but because of the message He was bringing to us. When there is good, there is bad. Why would He choose Noah out of all people to build the Ark? Ask Him? Read the Bible and ask Him yourself. Look at today and see how his messages in the Bible turned out. Not so good if I had my opinion in it. But instead, we all worry about being dead more than being alive. But of course, that's what life is about right? Surviving? Not loving, that's for sure. Both Christians and non-Christians are rather to blame if your pointing the finger again. Which I am this time. And the finger is pointing at me too.

Although I am tempted to question this paragraph further, I generally have no real gripes with it and would more or less agree. One thing though, and this is just my curiosity, is it customary to use a capital 'H' when referring to God?


Very, now I advise you get some sleep and do well on your class tommorrow. Good luck buddy!
Cheers, been a pleasure arguing with you.

[edit on 13-7-2009 by sorennn]



posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 04:28 AM
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I was attempting to point out to you my view that if this god of yours exists as you describe, in short, he's an ass. Surely if you, like him, had the power to right these wrongs and provide these men and women with better circumstances then you would. All of us would.


Well, you can call Him that by all means. I won't because I don't see Him that way. See, you think you understand God's powers. You don't have any idea what He is capable of. And I mean that out of respect because I don't quite know either. He was angry at creation so He killed them. (I can never imagine why *sarcasm*) Plus He blatantly speaks out that He was grieved at what He made in Genesis 6:5-7. You should read that. Just like a father, He sets by example throughout the rest of the Bible.


Or can't he? Why not? What am I misunderstanding?


I don't know can He? You read His word and talk to Him yourself and therefore you shouldn't be misunderstood anymore.


I don't want to seem like I'm just sad because your God doesn't do everything for me, but I hold him to the same kind of moral standards as everybody else, and if a human being had the power to help another significantly, at no cost or inconvenience to himself, but chose not to I would consider him (you guessed it) an ass.


Well, He has done plenty for you that you clearly do not know about. So before you call Him a "donkey's bottom", I suggest you set your standards on Him alone instead of how everyone else sets theirs.


Am I misunderstanding your interpretation of god?


Umm, I would most certainly say yes. You say you think God is a "butt" yet I don't. I think you didn't quite grip the way "I see God" because I never interpreted Him as you so such think.

[edit on 13-7-2009 by Water-tastes-good]

[edit on 13-7-2009 by Water-tastes-good]



posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 04:50 AM
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Okay, just before I continue (I've just looked it up) these are the lines that involve the sentence: 'I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.' Yes?


That's correct.


Well, it sounds awfully poetic, but he's not really one for detail, is he? Thanks for pointing that our me, it's interesting, certainly, but I think we both know that I'm not going to accept that for an answer and that continuing along these lines would be futile for both us, seeing as you submit that 'no man will know the answer' or indeed be able to properly interpret the line.


Your right, the Book of Revelations is full of poetry. No, He doesn't give that much detail but honestly, do we need it? He gives us 66 books full of detail about life. You want to know what created God. Jesus Christ himself didn't know when God was planning to return. What does that say about God? He's very mysterious, good luck finding the answer. Again, I will say, ask God. You want to know more about Him? Ask Him.


I certainly don't and wouldn't contest it. What I meant was, I'm not going to be convinced by the argument that because the world may, to some at least, look designed (due partially to its beauty) that it therefore is designed (by some sort of god).


Yeah. What I meant was that no matter what you believe, I will not be able to sway you to believe in God. So I meant, no matter what you believe, the world has beauty in it. Can't deny that. We are going to disagree about the creation aspect but I was just stopping to say the world is beautiful regardless who created what. Kind of like a breather in the debate. Something we both agree on. That was my intention for that answer.


No, no, no, I meant your request for me to read the story is unreasonable (for myself) because I have this big ass literature assignment (due tomorrow) awaiting my attention as we speak. I also think it's a little much, in this kind of argument, to expect people to read through 50 pages of text to satisfy your interests (prove your point, I mean, I know that you feel it would be in my interests). On the other hand, if you were to highlight the sections relevant to the issue at hand, that would be perfectly acceptable in my view (and in my circumstances).


I didn't say you have to read it tonight. I want you to do well on the test tommorrow. Your not going to get a full answer from me when you can get the answers from where I got them from. Even if you don't come out of the book with the same answers with me, you read it and therefore need to ponder its message. Why God did what and so on. It's fun listening to others answers but like a teacher, I'm no cheater. I won't give answers before we both read the same thing and give our opinions. One can only know God's intentions and I believe they were for the good. You may see differently. But you will answer your own questions while reading it. That, I can gaurantee you. I will tell you Job had it all. He was rich. He had plenty of children. And he was a good man who walked with God. He lost it all. His children died. And he started getting disease. His wife told Him to curse God. He had a debate with his friends about God. Then God finally spoke. Many questions you have are in there. So are the answers.


I understand that, but for the reasons stated above, I'm not going to be able to. Perhaps when I'm less busy, I'm sorry.


You don't have to be sorry for anything. I understand your drift and read it whenever you can. You don't have to come on here and tell me about what you read either and what you gained and more questions etc. Just find the answers to your questions.



posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 05:10 AM
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Ahaha. On the to-do list.


Nice!!!


I understand this (though personally I don't think anything should be punishable gigantic tumor to the face) and, in a way, it does make a kind of sense for most people. However, a question: What about stillborn children (those that die in the uterus, during delivery or labor)? How have they sinned? Is this a punishment for the parents, perhaps? How is it justified that God should take those lives?


Fantastic question and one that I can't find the answer to but I have a theory. No one knows why God does what He does. He has a grand master plan and He makes it clear throughout the Bible that it's a test. Jesus said that if you had as much faith as a mustard-seed, then you could move mountains. What did He mean? Kinda cool isn't it? Babies sin all the time, but aren't given the chance to fully know God so only He knows what He does with the babies. As for dying in the womb, I blame the parents or some unknown cause that even God maybe didn't want the babies to live as. So, my guess is He takes the soul and puts it into another fetus. But I'm not God nor will I ever want to be.


(I'm beginning to realise that if I continue with this kind of question, the only real conclusive answer I'm ever going to get is along the lines of 'ask him yourself', 'we simply don't have all the answers' or (god forbid) 'Read Job!' So you can disregard that If you like.)


It's not that I don't have all the answers because I don't, I'm only human too you know, but that I'd rather you take your questions to Him instead. I don't ever want to be accused of giving out false info. Or sending a wrong message. Or decoding a passage the wrong way. The whole, don't take from the Bible and don't add to the Bible sort of thing. I'm afraid of God so to speak. So now that you know that I'm a bit scared, I say take it up with God. But I do try to help.


Although I am tempted to question this paragraph further, I generally have no real gripes with it and would more or less agree. One thing though, and this is just my curiosity, is it customary to use a capital 'G' when referring to God?


To me it is. God is my Father and I have endless love for Him that it's only customary for me to capitalize what I call Him. He has other names too and I would capitalize them as well. Just like you capitalize your name, I capitalize His. That's just me though but you don't have too.


Cheers, been a pleasure arguing with you.


And also with you. Again, good luck and best wishes. God Bless!!!!

[edit on 13-7-2009 by Water-tastes-good]

[edit on 13-7-2009 by Water-tastes-good]



posted on Jul, 13 2009 @ 06:21 AM
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Ahhh, sorry I meant 'H', when you use the word 'He' to refer to God I noticed you tend to capitalize, but that doesn't really matter. Anyway, last, last thing (and don't worry, I'm in Australia so its not as late as you might think), I've read your responses and I do get the general message. Thank you.

[edit on 13-7-2009 by sorennn]



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