This is not Socialism...it is Corporatism

For awhile now this has been the main mantra of many here...Socialism....I did it myself when I first began posting here on the political forums almost a year ago...after the 2 main candidates were chosen to run for President.

In that time my knowledge and opinions of our entire political system..and how it really works...has completely changed and has morphed into something that I didn't see before.

Socialistic policies have always existed...in fact...I don't believe we've ever really had a true capitalistic country.

So let's bring this all down to what it really is....

Corporatism.

As quoted from Dictionary.com...the definition of corporatism....

the principles, doctrine, or system of corporative organization of a political unit, as a city or state.

dictionary.reference.com...

In reality, capitalism and socialism is nothing but a disguise....and misdirection by both sides of the political spectrum.

What are the facts? Congressman do not write 1000 page bills...their staffers do....and where do their staffers get their information and ideas for their bills?

LOBBYIST. Lobbyist who rail in person at politicians offices, dumping thousands of dollars into their coffers with campaign contributions...befriending them....to get them to sway to their side.

Lobbyist from banks, oil companies, energy companies, health companies, ALL COMPANIES.

So where is your voice? Can you go to a politicians office to talk about what matters to you? Better yet, do you have the money to dump 50,000 dollars into their campaign to help get them to listen to you?

Most of us can do neither. So what does that leave you?

You are left with a corporately owned media...owned by major corporations....who don't even PAY TO LOBBY FOR YOUR OPINION...YOU PAY THEM TO DO IT.

Essentially what our politicians have become are LOBBYIST FOR BIG BUSINESS. They are trying to convince you of something...saving/losing jobs....saving/losing tax money.....gaining/losing debt.....entering/leaving war.

You don't have a voice. The only real people with voices are the ones with all of the money...those are the people that dictate and change all of the laws that infringe on our rights.

Corporations push the loss of our rights THROUGH our government....in reality it's not just a bunch of evil politicians who are trying to make you slaves....it's business and their undeniable influence upon them.

What do most Americans want....that they have not gotten...and have screamed about for years?

1. Our borders are not protected. Illegal immigration has been out of control.
2. NAFTA. The massive job loss created by NAFTA has been nothing but DESTRUCTIVE to the American worker and our economy as many of our productive and factory jobs are now gone.
3. War. Who doens't want the war to end?
4. Debt. Why in the hell can't they get it under control?
5. Most of all........we just want to live a good damn life...to live as prosperously and freely as humanly possible...yet we see our freedoms attacked almost everyday.

Since none of this has happened...none of these things have changed.....who benefits from it?

CORPORATIONS.

Illegal immigration...CHEAP ILLEGAL WORKERS.....NO TAXES for said companies to pay them.

NAFTA. Since our tariffs on imports are extremely low, businesses that would have stayed here are now gone...for cheaper labor. Once again...benefitting big business.

War. Benefits the military industrial complex...and those who pull the strings behind the scenes.

Debt. A perpetual constant to cover expenses of outrageous spending and war...all the while trying to cover it with inflation...a hidden tax on us all.


I don't know if many others here see all of this for what it is yet or not....or what it is i'm trying to get across.

What i'm trying to say that Obama isn't the end all, be all of evil. He cannot do anything without the approval of corporations....he just can't.

Whether you see it as good or bad on what he does....he does not have the power that many of you seem to think he has.

The lobbyist are alive in well in Washington...they didn't go away when Obama took office...and they will never leave.....

I have many more opinoins on this...but I will cut them short for now as i've probably gone on too long already.

Would love to see some thoughts on this...and what do you feel is really happening...

Of course we agree on this but you have been reading my threads and know that. I put the entire Hegelian Dialectic into question and name the 2 heads of the snake Globalist Corporatism, and Socialist Collectivism. The 2 have become one in a sense so that is all there is to choose from in this and many other nations.

Yes, I agree.

I've been thinking about this for awhile now, not this particular subject, but how every government will eventually morph into a dictatorship.

There really isn't a such thing as Socialist Collectivism or Individual Capitalism. It is all one in the same, they both end up the same way.

Example, look at Communist and Socialist countries, they all have homeless people. They all have poor people, they have a very small middle to upper middle class, if it even exists, and the rich seem to be Dynasties.

I've also thought about the philosophies behind both socialism and capitalism and have come to realize that they are both extremes of right and left, just for simplicity sake.

It's all the same, its all just more propaganda used to divide us. But at the extremes of the spectrum. The politicians keep repeating the lies behind each system.

An example, the progressives say we need social safety nets, we need to give people money and support them, but they are lied to believe that it is a moral responsibility to do so. Even though the outcome is an even more immoral act of creating dependency. To provide of an example of dependency and how immoral it is, take a wild animal keep it in a cage for years upon years with you dictating when it gets food. After say a good 4 or 5 years release the animal into the wild. The animal will die in a short time because it has become dependent on you to take care of it.

Now an example from the capitalist side, they keep saying tax cuts tax cuts tax cuts, and rarely ever do they say we need to cut spending, and when they do say we need to cut spending it is never in the areas that need the cutting, it's always public services, not their buddies gov programs that are redundant and serve no purpose.

Now when you combine the two you get what we have across the globe Corporatism. Both sides are at a philosophical difference and will never agree.

That is just a really brief run down and it is more complicated than that, but you should be able to get it if you think about it a bit more.

I agree...

Corporatism

Somewhere I used that term back when they started handing out cash to all their crony banker friends and someone said, "What are you talking about?"

Hope ya get some hits on this...

BTW:

Major Lender Faces Crunch
online.wsj.com...

CIT Hires Bankruptcy Adviser as Payment Looms; Financier to 1 Million Businesses

reply to post by David9176


Precisely D. I think it was ECK back in 06, that described the US as now being a Corporate Oligarchy rather than a Democratic Republic.
Our form of government has also been described as a Kleptocracy.
www.marketoracle.co.uk...

reply to post by Hx3_1963


And you called it exactly correct.

Check this out pay attention to the last sentence at the bottom.

Explaining how that is relevant to the thread this is the part where the federal gov steps in when California cannot make good on their IOU's. Obama is already setting us up with it. He mentions "look at Cali" for this and that.

That is where the socialism comes in, while they ram down another stimulus package worse than the first one to bailout this time, small business to be subjected to the whims of the pay czar.

All the while big corporations are the ones pulling the strings to give it the illusion we are in a "free market" economic system. When really it is just part of the bigger globalist capitalist collective.

Capitalism for the ones that can afford to pay to play, and socialism for the ones that cant.

Edit to fix link.

[edit on 11-7-2009 by Hastobemoretolife]

reply to post by Hastobemoretolife


Corporations are too powerful and they are too powerful because of laws passed by our government....through the influence of lobbyist.

Our fiat monetary system is a sham for one...which really was the start of it all IMO for the most part.

Then you have Reagan building up the military industrial complex. Bush number one takes us to war...for oil...not liberation of a country. Clinton comes in and passes NAFTA.....which really gave HUGE HUGE HUGE!!!!!! powers to corporations...making them flat out gigantic world powerhouses...which is why our government no longer seems to work for the people within our borders...as the ones lobbying for them are corporations that have other interests and businesses all over the world. Then Bush number 2 takes us to a never ending war on terrorism...a war that cannot be one....while corporations benefit off of the deaths of innocents and those who feel they are fighting for the people of their country.

Democracy has failed us and i don't believe it's the American people's fault either. When you are constantly told by a corporate media that a certain "law" is beneficial to you and it needs to be done...most people will believe it. Now it has gotten to the point that everything has stacked up so high...the lies and the deceit.....the loss of the wealth of the middle class..the continued rise of power of the elite and rich....it just can't be hidden anymore.

Copyright laws may be the new infringement on our rights because of the internet and it's freedom of information.

To protect their "property", soon we could all be watched. Not for terrorism....but for money and the added control that comes with it.

What was the ultimate reason Obama was elected? Why did he receive so much campaign contributions, McCain as well, from the banks?

I believe Obama was chosen for the same things the Republicans, Racists, or the Hannity's of the world hate him.

His color and his Muslim background. Another white man in office would not serve the country well if we were to continue our war on terrorism. Obama is in to quell the anger so we can continue to keep doing what we are doing.

You can't speak for peace and keep bombing countries...I'm sorry...it just doesn't work.

In reality, I think obama was bought and paid for. He sold his soul to be President.

It saddens me to see how far our country has fallen from what it was intended to be.

More like fascism: "any movement, ideology, or attitude that favors dictatorial government, centralized control of private enterprise, repression of all opposition, and extreme nationalism." In this case however, it is extreem globalism insread of nationalism.

reply to post by David9176


Well it is a combination of all those things. You are absolutely correct in what you are saying, but how we got to this point is a long and complicated answer, but to sum it up it is government control.

The pendulum swings back in forth but in reality the whole clock is moving, the people are only fixated on the pendulum. Perfect example of this is that a bunch of so called "free market capitalist" actually agree with free trade, while the progressives also agree with free trade. They are just able to sell it to both sides. They sell it to the capitalist as better for business because there is more competition, they sell it to the left as generating business for poor countries and it allows them to become a more developed nation.

When in reality we are all being exploited. So it's like as the pendulum swings the clock eventually the clock hits 12 and a chime rings, but instead the chime is actually a little motor that moves the whole clock.

So it is simple stupid issues that people are fixated on(pendulum) when the big policies they both sell it in a way where both sides agree for their own purposes(the chime, or motor that moves the clock).

reply to post by SGTChas

More like fascism: "any movement, ideology, or attitude that favors dictatorial government, centralized control of private enterprise, repression of all opposition, and extreme nationalism."

Well.....I'm not really sure it's fascism.....at least not total fascism. Government doesn't really control all business....business controls government. We have 2 political parties that rail for certain corporations and sometimes....both rail for the SAME corps.

This is why we have the cap and trade argument. Big oil versus green energy. It's not about the earth...it's about money and control....at least to those with vested interests in it.

T-Boone Pickens for example....bought 2 BILLION dollars worth of wind mills from GE and he railed to get America off of foreign oil.

Was it because he cared for the US and it's people...HELL NO. He was looking at an opportunity and wanted to capitalize on it. He spent 60 million dollars of his own money railing for it.

How many houses could that have bought? How many people could he have kept in their homes? How many people could he have fed?

We are either going to be taxed to hell on oil...or it will be by cap and trade...and someone will benefit from it...and it sure as hell won't be us.

When we look at our political system today....what you are looking at is the competition of big business....world business....

It's not democracy...at least not for the average person.

It might be democratic for gigantic corporations...but definitely not us.

Very Few people in congress are not bought...ironically...2 of them are polar opposites.

Ron Paul, a libertarian....and Bernie Sanders...an independent Socialist.

A true Conservative and a true Liberal.

What the hell are all the rest???!?!

reply to post by Hastobemoretolife


That is the point exactly; the statist have always planned to lower the living standards and wages in America, this to be able to integrate America with the rest of the world. In the thread I just posted it quotes the ‘elite’ as saying that when the American people recognize what a huge transfer of their wealth was just made to TPTB, they will revolt.

This is exactly what ‘cap and trade’ is, a method of transferring the rest of our manufacturing capabilities to African and Asian countries that refuse to sign up for the carbon tax; as soon as that bill is ratified by the Senate, numerous energy intensive corporations will move off shore. We will in effect become a banana republic overnight.

Thus, you must think as the ‘elite’ do in globalist terms, they are bringing about a global fascist government. Redistributing American wealth and power to poorer nations while bringing down our borders and gutting our military. this plan was clearly stated in The Report From Iron Mountain in the sixties – the printed report which Ron Paul will give you a copy of if you request it as IT WAS what got him so Constitutionally active – step by step EXACTLY what they said they would do they have.


[edit on 7/11/2009 by SGTChas]

reply to post by Hastobemoretolife

They sell it to the capitalist as better for business because there is more competition, they sell it to the left as generating business for poor countries and it allows them to become a more developed nation

Right.

True Capitalism cannot exist because it will inevitably end up as someone gaining to much power at the top....but Socialism is also the same thing.

Both exude FAR too much control over people. Socialism and capitalism are more alike then I used to think...and the reason is that they both take us to the same result.

As you stated in that quote...no matter what is done...corporations become more powerful. Socialism, capitalism, government, it's all there.

Everything needs to be brought down and made smaller. I think we should put a cap and trade on government and business..lol...and by that I mean enforce anti-trust laws again...repeal nafta....and GDit....follow the Consitution!!

Lol..it's such a disaster...there is no way out of it without everything crumbling apart.

We haven't even mention the stock markets either...that's a whole other deal.

reply to post by SGTChas

In the thread I just posted it quotes the ‘elite’ as saying that when the American people recognize what a huge transfer of their wealth was just made to TPTB, they will revolt.

We can revolt....but it won't matter because everything will be gone. We'll be forced into whatever is to come because of our weakened state.

We can have all the guns in the world...but we can't go after those responsible when they are in planted all over the world.

It's funny....we have a war on terrorism...but the ones "labeled" terrorists aren't the real terrorist....it's the one's manipulating it all...the ones that control the money...and the ones that have it.

The rest of us get scraps if we are lucky.....and we die for causes that aren't even real.

reply to post by SGTChas


It's the Fourth Reich. Is what it is. It has nothing to do with money, it is all about control. There is no need for money when you can just print it.

The Nazi's was a socialist party, they hated communism, because in theory it gave power to the proletariat. He favored Socialism because it gave all power to the state. That is my opinion at least. I have no desire to read Mien Kaumpf (sp?) because I have no desire to psycho analyze Hitler.

Either way it is going to be a pay to play world and you will be selected to live comfortably.

reply to post by David9176


Yes, it is a disaster, And I will probably get flamed for my next suggestion, but we need to rewrite the whole constitution. Now what I mean by that is that it needs to still fulfill the same purpose as it was designed, but it needs to be written in a more concrete way. To where the supreme court can not reinterpret the laws as they are written. The state and federal government need to be extremely limited on what laws they can write, and why policies they can set.

The constitution has been a very good road block and is actually working as designed. It was designed to where if the government got to be too powerful and no longer follows the meaning, the country would implode in on it self. As we are witnessing.

Now they are coming for the last mechanism which allows us to express ourselves freely which is the internet. By the time they get to that point though we either be in revolution or civil war.

reply to post by David9176


Well, not to insult you if you are not a believer in the Word of God, but all will not be over and America DOES come out of this.

Evil only succeeds when good men and woman do nothing - perhaps you should read the thread I just posted as it details 2 times out of many I could have listed when the US military STOPPED martial law. We will win as ther are many more on our side then you know.

reply to post by Hastobemoretolife

Yes, it is a disaster, And I will probably get flamed for my next suggestion, but we need to rewrite the whole constitution. Now what I mean by that is that it needs to still fulfill the same purpose as it was designed, but it needs to be written in a more concrete way. To where the supreme court can not reinterpret the laws as they are written. The state and federal government need to be extremely limited on what laws they can write, and why policies they can set.

I understand what you are saying and the Constitution is certainly not perfect. I'm big on the Constitution.....not exactly for the paper itself....but for what it's supposed to mean.

We had the Revolutionary war..not to free ourselves from Britian...but to free ourselves from the West India tea company and their taxes...with whom the king at the time was in cahoots with.

Ironically the reason we became a country is the same thing that is leading to our demise.

I don't knowk what we should do anymore....I don't know if we even can do anything.

I also don't think many people realize what the Federal Reserve signifies. The federal reserve will expose the whole system. Everyone says that it will never happen.

But what if it's supposed to? If the failure of our monetary system is exposed.....it's all the more reason to bring in a world currency....and I have a feeling we will never prosecute those who have been thieving off of the people over their entire lives.

A revolution I think is possible....Civil war....nah...at least not anything like the civil war we had before....the country isn't divided by north/south...it's divided by urban/rural.

I'm glad I don't live in the city....that is going to be a bad place to be soon...especially cities like New York, Chicago, Los Angeles.

Yikes.

reply to post by Hastobemoretolife


Your exactly right, but the Fourth Reich can only be palmed off on the world if the 'have nots' believe they will be recipients of large amounts of wealth distribution – WHY Clinton gave away our digital advantage to China – and we are convinced it is the only way to save our nation from global warming, terrorism and a thousand other manufactured boogey men.

Take heart David9176, this old soldier has not lost a single dust up I entered into, and I do not plan to start now - neither do my numerous well trained and armed patriots (inactive, Guard, Reserves, Active Duty and Militia) across this nation. Good will overcome.

reply to post by SGTChas

Well, not to insult you if you are not a believer in the Word of God, but all will not be over and America DOES come out of this.

I'm not a very religious person...I never have been.....but I do believe that their is reason for life...I don't think it's just some kind of accident. There is a reason for everything.

When it comes to the bible though....it was written by men....not a god...and is as open to interpretation as any book or statement written by any man.

I'm not bashing either..so please don't think that. My own personal experiences have brought my idea of what I believe. I just don't think you need a bible to see what is coming...and I don't think it's needed to have hope for a better future....or to hope that we can overcome this.

How many people will have to suffer for wrongs not their own?

I admit, there are some interesting things in the bible and some interesting coincidences and similarites to what is happening now....but I don't live by it...but take no offense to those who do....my family is highly religious as well.

I just like to stay open minded...after all....being open minded has led me to where I am today.....completely amazed at that mass deception of everything we know.

it's tiring really. I just want a better world for my daughter....is that asking too much?

That's all I want. I don't give a damn about myself. I just want the world to leave my kid alone and let her live a long and happy life.

It pains me that I can't control or guarantee that.

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by the way...for those who are wondering...baby STILL isn't here yet....but will be by this Thursday/late Friday....as the doctor will be inducing labor if it doesn't happen by then.

Hoping for a smart, strong, healthy baby girl!!!

reply to post by David9176


That is why I live my life in faith of the One who CAN guaranty your future, if you will only trust His Word; hey His Word, written by men under the power of God, healed me and set me free.