Originally posted by mmiichael

OK. I'm only able to speculate with incomplete information and no access to prime sources. But a leg up with info from someone who has tracked this story professionally.

There is some issue with Obama's actual birth place, his citizenship, his technical legitimacy as President. There was a story of a private investigator who tracked down the Obama-Dunham divorce papers and allegedly it gave BO's place of birth as Kenya. Either a hoax or the story was squashed.

The avoidance of supplying the full paperwork is probably a flashing red light. That said, it was decided that he should be the Pres based on his overwhelming popularity and the wish not to compromise US credibility when the economic future and negative perception were becoming a worldwide concern in the final quarter of 2008.

So he's sworn in and in the Oval Office now. If not legitimately, only a dozen people know that and they would have more to lose than gain by going public with the knowledge.

The Supreme Court will not entertain any claims trying to remove him.
Just as they took a pass on the recount demand for Florida in 2000.

But it's 2009 and there are things happening in the background that we only can surmise.

Who benefits from Obama losing his job? Is it conceivable this was a setup?
Was he parachuted in as part of a program to destabilize the US.

Is everything above unfounded rumours and paranoid suspicion?

Someone who has a pretty good idea says: Yes to some, but not all.


Mike

I believe I mentioned to you before Michael that the Powers that Be would have only broken with tradition in selecting Obama to be President if there were an exquisitely diabolical avenue to be exploited in it.

Rome loves to practice divide and conquer warfare and for a New World Order of Corporate Oligarchs to successfully introduce a one world Government, America does have to be divided and conquered first, and it would have been the only conceivable talent someone with absolutely no credible experience in any traditional venue or enterprise would possess.

The ability to be divisive with absolute polarizing affect, the fall out will be brutal with America divided between two camps based largely on racial and political party lines. A widely popular personality seemingly victimized in a culture long indoctrinated into victimization based belief system.

Nothing will appear credible to some people and this could shed some light on amongst the other fundamentally flawed and potentially debilitating legislation pushed hastily through Congress why a Hate Crimes Bill is one of them.

Cast enough doubt in the minds of Obama’s supporters that the evidence though apparently credible has been manufactured by foreign or domestic powers unfairly aligned against him and it is all just a covert attack on the stability of the nation and then you can invoke the National Security Act and make even the evidentiary finding classified for intelligence reasons.

With so many citizens already suspicious from a number of stories in the paper from both opposing camps rhetoric will heat up rapidly and that rhetoric will likely be deemed a hate crime.

The long and short of it Michael is so much fraud and theft and illegal activity has taken place in successive administrations, congresses and Wall Street the only way the real perpetrators can ultimately get away with it is through bringing the whole system down, collapsing America from within, and then using their extreme wealth, privilege and influence to reconstitute a new system one more step removed from the events that would have many in prison for life and some even possibly executed.

Ultimately they have to collapse the system before the full effects of the bailout run their course and they become recognized for what such actions always are, the last act of any government is to loot the treasury and that is just what has already been done through the bailouts and the massive open ended non-Constitutionally declared wars.

This was a master stroke of planning on the Power that Be’s parts.

He was selected to be the last President of the United States and to tear it apart from within.

The beauty of the plan is all they had to do was get him in office. It’s a dummy proof plan from there. Then it’s just a matter of selecting the most opportune time and finding the right person to leak the information to and the right venue and approach to really run it up the flagpole.

Divide and conquer. It’s the Roman way.

These people are far smarter than you think Michael. There is a rarified environment where your friends are never invited and most conversations take place behind walls with faraday cages built into the buildings they are carried out in.

Assuming that Ob knows about his own past, along with TPTB, there exists the possibility that he was put into power on condition that if he step out of line with said PTB, they have a way to get him out, ordo ab chao style such that the resulting chaos creates useful new opportunities?

There have been several lawsuits regarding President Obama's birth certificate. To date, all of them have been ruled by the courts that the person or group bringing the lawsuits "Don't have standing" to bring such a case. It wasn't that the cases were heard and dismissed.

Now, who or what group might have legal standing to challenge the legality of President Obama's birth certificate, place of birth and Constitutionality of his holding office? yup. Congress, or so it was ruled.

That seems to me somewhat akin to a court ruling that the only person who can bring a case against me is................ my mother.

One of these cases will be heard, somewhere. It's a Constitutional issue, and I believe vital for the progress of the United States to settle the issue. Merely labelling it as a sour-grapes rightwing movement or "fringe" really doesn't address the issue nor the questions. It needs to be heard and settled, and then the country can go on; right now, this keeps the nation polarized, and I think that's extremely detrimental.

Originally posted by argentus
It's a Constitutional issue

If it’s a constitutional issue then it should be challenged by constitutional evidence, which as the other previous lawsuits have shown, could not be proven. Until there is a lawsuit that proves that Obama is constitutionally ineligible these lawsuits won’t get anywhere.

Merely labelling it as a sour-grapes rightwing movement or "fringe" really doesn't address the issue

Regardless of whether the rightwing fringe are sour grapes over the elections or just hateful or concerned in the fairest sense it is the constitutional evidence that is relevant under the court of law. Thus far none has been provided for these lawsuits to get some ground. You hold the constitution in your hands, yet you don’t cite anything relevant to prove your accusations.

One lawsuit said during the 60's foreign children were able to attain a Hawaiian birth certificate; truth is the law regarding that only came in place following 1982, before that you had to have been born in the US to have attained a birth certificate.

Another past lawsuit argued Obama attained Indonesia citizenship, due to Indonesian laws you had to give up your US citizenship thus making Obama ineligible, however the laws at the time of Indonesia disprove this fact as Obama was too old to automatically gain Indonesian citizenship as he resided there less than 6 years, over the age of 5. In addition his natural born citizenship does not recognize the laws of other nations so it was irrelevant. Regarding his attendance in public school his step father obviously lied because the laws did not allow under any circumstance Obama to gain Indonesian citizenship.

Yet another lawsuit came out arguing his Kenyan/British dual citizenship where the constitution forbids.... however Obama lost his Kenyan citizenship at the age of 21 as he did not give up his natural born American citizenship. The laws of Kenya at the time were also not recognizing by the US in anyway thus the laws there did not affect Obama. The constitution also states dual citizenship at the time of running for the presidency.

And then there was one lawsuit that argued that his mother was too young to pass her citizenship on to Obama when he was born.... yet Obama was born on US soil in any case so he is by all means natural born, in addition the marriage of his mother and father was not valid as his father was already married in Kenya, so any complications there don’t work out. This notion that somehow Miss Dunham went to Kenya at such a young age, 8-9 months pregnant, had Obama there, then rushed back makes no sense, especially considering his announcement in the Hawaiian papers at the time, that required you to have a birth certificate.

The only arguments that are left apart from the debunked ones are speculative at best. His trip to Pakistan to which Pakistan actually did not ban US tourists as many claimed. His supposed grandmother’s audio tape which actually turned out to be his estranged step-grandmother who said Barrack Obama senior was born in Kenya. The of course, there is the allegations of his deception, his multiple identities, which really go around the realm of story telling. Obama had another name before, yet him as a child can hardly be blamed for the actions of his folks.

And then of course lastly it’s the "why doesn’t he just show his long birth certificate" which is a moot of course because there will always be something he will need to show to somebody. Also given the fact not every president in the past can be accounted for presenting their long form.

This lawsuit now, where are now claims suspicions regarding social security numbers, is something the plaintiff should then show us. By all means if somebody wants to prove something they have that right, yet like the lawsuits before, this is another hype attempt, attention grabber and nothing more.

argentous you say this needs to be settled, what makes you think in your mind that the rightwing fringe will settle with Obama as president, ever? There will always be issues, always be some accusation, and when one is debunked, there is something else. I hardly think the president should waste his time until somebody actually comes up with legit evidence.

I hope you took the time to read what I posted here, as well as the others, and I will try my very best to read with an open mind the concerns of others here, but thus this just highlights the reasoning behind my attitude of the whole situation, and the attitude of the rest of the world.

Implicating a government cover-up only merely works as an excuse for the lack of evidence behind the accusations.


[edit on 11-7-2009 by Southern Guardian]

Originally posted by JulieMills
It would be enough for me to find out WHY he needed 39 fake social security numbers.

Lets take into mind this hasnt been proven yet, its just been listed under the argument of the Plaintiff. If your going over this who accusation for the fact you have real concerns other than one of partisan/ideological, you wouldnt be jumping the gun. I suggest you wait until this lawsuit actually presents the evidence.

Is this any surprise to those who frequent ATS. Of course not for the truth cannot be hidden forever. (He) will not allow it but for a time they will have their way, but only for a time. This evil is now exposing itself for it knows its time is short, ie dated. It will destroy as much as it is allowed to destroy for still (it) this evil must follow the outline of him who has always been. Fools will come and go but truth and love will in the end prevail. How do I know these things to be "true".....they have eyes that can not see nor ears that do not hear". I laugh at the insanity of the blind. Your days are numbered as is the days of this "lier in Chief".

Originally posted by kozmo
OH, and by the way... your most recent post is rife with speculation. You make assertions that you feel are true, like "he was born on American soil anyway"

You havent proven otherwise now have you?

and are in no way based in fact.

How can your accusation be fact if you have not proven anything? If you and fringe buddies think you have case, come up with the evidence please.

Again, I ask... Why not simply present the Birth Certificate?

His shown it. Any more requests and the next thin you know yall be asking him proof that his first car was american made. Jeeze.

Ona different note, I was just thinking now that there has been TWO NEW FRIVALOUS ETHICS COMPLAINTS filed against Gov. Palin AFTER she made her announcement (underscoring her reason to step down).
It made me wonder, can an ethics complaint be filed against President Obama because of these fake addresses and SS numbers? Or how about an ethics complaint for getting elected president and not being a legal US citizen?

Although it might be expecting to much,shouldn't the American people be allowed to know all they can about the man that holds the highest office in the land? Holding the office of President is a heavy burden. The citizens place "trust" in the person holding that office. That "trust",should be tempered with all the facts,about the President. It is apparent that "transparancy" is a "fallicy". There seems to be far more questions than there are answers. The lack of true openess,lends itself to speculation,and rightly so.

A person in the political spotlight must expect people to question their motives. They should expect to be held to a higher standard,and answer the hard questions. There are few jobs in this country that you don't have to submit to a background check. Even mall cops have background checks.

Why is it so hard for our standing President to allow an open background check? How hard would it be to show his origional U.S.passport? Show the date it was issued. Prove to the country that he IS a natural citizen and has never held a foreign passport,or held dual citizenship.

The questions are simple,the answers would be simple. I just don't understand the subversion from the truth!!!

All the evidence is so far is an affidavit that some shmo has real evidence. There as of yet is nothing and I mean NOTHING to get excited about people. Please, put the pitchforks and torches down for a second.

Of course you realize that these are the same few men that have been doing this and FAILING for a while now right?

[edit on 7/11/2009 by whatukno]

Years ago, as a lowly enlisted E-3 there were a number of orders I was given that were flat out ridiculous, so I flat out disobeyed them. Consequently I ended up attending numerous captain’s masts, many times coming face-to-face with the UCMJ.

It was always principle with me, if the orders were irrational or unethical I’d disobey them. It never had anything to do with being a coward; on the contrary I always embraced dangerous duty. But when it came to political BS, that’s where I’d draw the line.

Americans need to make their stand, our system is absolutely corrupt. It’s time to start disobeying many of the government’s orders. You’d be surprised at how fragile a “powerful” system is, when its people begin to flat out tell them “NO, I WILL NOT OBEY YOU!”

Barry’s no “commander-in-chief.” He’s an inept puppet who’s now at the helm and is being ordered to steer a course that’s intended to destroy America. In my opinion, he’s a weak man who does not have the courage or morals to disobey dishonorable orders.

BTW, I ended up with an honorable discharge, primarily because the military realized I was more than willing to put my life on the line at anytime, when rational and ethical circumstances warranted it.

Hope this hasn’t sounded to arrogant, I’m just trying to help wake America up.

Peace on Earth


[edit on 11-7-2009 by seasoul]