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Originally posted by Phage
It is unlawful.
[edit on 7/10/2009 by Phage]
...At the national level, the Federal Flag Code (Title 36, U.S. Code, paragraph 170-178) provides uniform guidelines for the display of, and respect shown to, Our Flag, and conduct during playing of the National Anthem and the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. The Code is designed 'for the use of such civilian groups of organizations as may not be required to conform with regulations promulgated by one or more executive departments' of the federal government, such as the armed forces. The Flag Code does not prescribe any penalties for non-compliance nor does it include enforcement provisions. Rather, it functions as a guide to be voluntarily followed by civilians and civilian groups.
While the Code empowers the President of the United States to alter, modify, repeal or prescribe additional rules regarding the Flag, no federal agency has the authority to issue 'official' rulings legally binding on civilians or civilian groups...
The Flag Code:Respect for the Flag
a. The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property
Desecration of the flag of the United States; penalties
a.1. Whoever knowingly mutilates, defaces, physically defiles, burns, maintains on the floor or ground, or tramples upon any flag of the United States shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than one year, or both.
The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing.
Originally posted by Wolf321
Now, no where in the code does it define 'extreme' or 'danger.'
Additionally, no where does it state or suggest what type of response should be given upon seeing a flag upside down.
I try to take a common sense approach in my assessment of that aspect.
If they want to keep everything as is, then they need to clarify some terms, and state fines as well as how to respond to an upside down flag. THEN, I would equate it to yelling "FIRE!" in a crowded theater.
[dit on 13-7-2009 by Wolf321]
Originally posted by passengerDisplaying an upside down flag is commonly recognized as a display of extreme distress: help, our ship is sinking, our base is overrun, etc. Do you think there was the slightest possibility that one of the members of the local police was a veteran who saw that display and was familiar with the undefined meaning?
With the flag issue, the cops in question removed the flag from the property so that the owner would not be harassed by the public. But, they have also stated that they were under order from the Marinette County sheriff's office to do so.
Originally posted by getreadyalready
This is a perfect reason for their action. The article stated it was removed before a parade. Someone stated the police never "prevent" anything, but I totally disagree. I live on the FL-GA state line, and an upside down flag on a main route during a 4th of July parade would certainly draw unwanted and possibly violent attention!
Originally posted by Wolf321
Originally posted by getreadyalready
This is a perfect reason for their action. The article stated it was removed before a parade. Someone stated the police never "prevent" anything, but I totally disagree. I live on the FL-GA state line, and an upside down flag on a main route during a 4th of July parade would certainly draw unwanted and possibly violent attention!
What a good line of thinking. They should have applied this type of thought in big cities when gangsters harass businesses and demand protection money. Instead of going after the gangsters the DA and cops could just shut down the businesses to PREVENT the crime.
[edit on 14-7-2009 by Wolf321]
This is a perfect reason for their action. The article stated it was removed before a parade. Someone stated the police never "prevent" anything, but I totally disagree. I live on the FL-GA state line, and an upside down flag on a main route during a 4th of July parade would certainly draw unwanted and possibly violent attention!
At the very least, this business was set up for litter and vandalism, and the police PREVENTED that from happening!
Originally posted by Vasilis Azoth
Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by TheAssociate
The First Amendment does not give you the right to yell fire in a theater. The flag code is not unconstitutional (on this point anyway). There is one legal reason to fly the flag upside down.
[edit on 7/10/2009 by Phage]
That is totally silly.
You are comparing apples and oranges.
You guys crack me up...
Vas
Notice to Law enforcement:
Do not violate my civil liberties in order to "protect" me from some possible future effect of my lawful decisions.
Originally posted by getreadyalready
I think we both know that your analogy fails!
A little forethought goes a long way. Most people know to put their dogs inside on Halloween, they know not to park in the street on New Year's Eve, etc. That is not saying that drunk driving or vandalism is acceptable, it is a short-term inconvenience out of precaution for their own well-being.
And I agree with the earlier poster, that the police should have come to the man and asked him nicely to remove the flag during the parade, he would surely have refused, and they could have informed him about how "busy" they would be for the next few hours and don't be surprised if we don't come back to save you from getting exactly what you asked for!