The Honduras Coup - another US takedown of a democratic nation, page 1

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Topic started on 10-7-2009 @ 01:23 PM by rich23

It hasn't had much coverage, but we've recently seen the first full-blown coup of the Obama regime.

Why was it done?

First, Honduras is quite the strategic necessity for the US. From within its borders the US launched the Bay of Pigs attack, the coup to oust Arbenz of Guatemala in the fifties, and the campaign against Nicaragua in the eighties. It had been quite the little US puppet state, complete with its death squads, notably Battalion 316.

Second, and crucially, President Zelaya had buddied up to Hugo Chavez, which of course infuriates the US administration. Bush had tried to remove Chavez and notched up an epic fail.

So the coup was conducted by the Honduran military, who are almost all graduates of what used to be called the School of the Americas, which was renamed the Western Hemispheric Insitute for Security and Co-operation. I think ti's been renamed again, since. This is where US instructors teach South American military men to torture and terrorise their populations,

The US is the only country not to have withdrawn their embassy from the illegal regime. It's also the only country that's not explicitly saying there was a coup. Barack and Hillary are making nice noises, but they're not supporting democracy. They're not, crucially, cutting off aid and credit to Honduras, which in theory they're required to do under a US law prohibiting aid to illegal regimes.

The Honduran military have silenced dissenting voices in the press and cut off the internet so it's hard to know what's going on there. I'm betting a purge. The US admin is playing for time while the Honduran military consolidates its postion.

Let Freedom Ring! [/sarcasm]

reply posted on 10-7-2009 @ 01:35 PM by PieKeeper

If any part of the US is behind this it'd be CIA/Military.

I don't think the "Obama regime" had anything to do with this. They already have enough on their plate to deal with at the moment.

reply posted on 10-7-2009 @ 02:34 PM by Voxel

You are both right. It was the CIA and it was a US plot to keep its drugs going.

First look at these reports detailing a television statement made by Chavez about the coup in Honduras:
www.radiosurco.cu...

Venezuelan President, Hugo Chavez requested Sunday that US President Barack Obama, to be pronounced against the military coup in Honduras, which he considered is carried out with the participation of the Central Intelligence Agency.

The above article was published on June 28th, 2009.

Then check out this article from Prison Planet (I know. I know.) talking about the Honduran President making some statements back in October of 2008:
www.prisonplanet.com...

In 2008, Manuel Zelaya, the president of Honduras, openly called for the legalization of drugs as a way to tackle drug-trafficking violence.

Reportedly, the CIA and elements of the CIA-backed military in Honduras have been involved in the drugs trade.

The above article was published on June 29th, 2009.

Finally, on the next day this article is published by the Associated Press (associated with what exactly?) providing the exact opposite viewpoint:
news.yahoo.com...

The regime that ousted Manuel Zelaya in Honduras claimed Tuesday that the deposed president allowed tons of cocaine to be flown into the Central American country on its way to the United States.
...
"We have proof of all of this. Neighboring governments have it. The DEA has it," he added.

In October, Zelaya proposed legalizing drug use as a way of reducing the violence, and doubling the country's police force, which reached 13,500 last year, up from 7,000 in 2005, according to the State Department report.

The above article was published on June 30th, 2009.

The single most interesting thing about the AP article is what it doesn't say.

The article doesn't deny that huge amounts of drug trafficking were going on and it doesn't say that the CIA is not involved in the politics in Honduras.

Realistically, you need the help of the military to secretly smuggle drugs through a country in large quantities. So at the very least the military knew about it and probably supported the activity.

So you have a President who made public statements about legalizing drugs and beefing up the "police" which probably also means some DEA type agents and border patrol. Basically, we was voicing concern over the state of his people should the rampant drug trade was allowed to continue and this was his fatal mistake.

Suddenly, the corrupt military officials along with the corrupt members of the government see their golden goose disappearing and decide to do the sensible thing and take over the country.

When a country openly admits that they were the sight of a massive drug running operation into the USA, why doesn't anyone ask how can a drug operation that is so massive that all levels of government and military are engaged not be obvious to the US law enforcement officials? And if it is obvious, why is it allowed to continue to move tons of cocain into the country?

The only way to explain these news reports is that either there is massive incompetence in the DEA, CIA and CG or there is massive corruption. Niether should be allowed to continue.

Even if the CIA isn't involved directly in the coup they are indirectly involved because not a long time ago, much of the training and material support the Honduran military received came from the CIA. You can believe that there are still people in the Honduran military who are more loyal to the CIA than Honduras or its people.

Jon

reply posted on 10-7-2009 @ 04:03 PM by rich23

reply to post by PieKeeper

The bay of pigs was set up before Kennedy came to office, but he still had to approve it. Maybe things have changed in the meantime, but Obama has certainly not done anything to stop it.

reply posted on 10-7-2009 @ 04:07 PM by rich23

reply to post by Voxel

Awesome post.

Now things really do fall into place.

One has to wonder the extent to which Obama knew about it. I suspect you can't get that high (pardon the expression) in government without knowing full well about the drugs trade. Perhaps I'm just cynical.

You got a star from me, anyway.

reply posted on 10-7-2009 @ 05:39 PM by Southern Guardian

Originally posted by rich23
It hasn't had much coverage, but we've recently seen the first full-blown coup of the Obama regime.

You, like the rest of the alarmist here, seem to only take in mind one faction of Honduras in this situation. As typical you folks jump the gun in matters concerning foreign nations and take sides. You accuse the US, the administration and [enter your group here] of unfairly backing one side when your doing the exact same thing.

The Honduran coup came about when President Zelaya sent our a referendum to extend his term as president. Now we may all argue that this is unfair, seems highly undemocratic, however take into mind this needed to go through the Honduran congress, which before it even got any consensus whatsoever (which I doubt it would have) the Honduran president was automatically removed from his position.

Presidents using policies to extend their term, its nothing knew, and although it shouldnt be acceptable, there is nothing constitutionally wrong for them to propose such a policy, its only unconstitutional when its inacted, which it rarely ever is as its shown in the past. The overthrown of the president was in a sense, still unconstitutional and undemocrat as he was still the democratically elected president at the time, regardless of whether you and the other alarmist on here "speculated" his takeover of the nation.

Its nothing new as well that the Honduran president has many rivals within congress and government who used this opportunity for their own agenda in government, so your really at the end of the day picking one of the two evils, which doesnt really make sense.

The Honduran president still has strong support among the Honduran population, we have not heard their say matter, it really doesnt look good for you advocating the side of the Military who have in a sense assumed control of government, locked up the parliament with protestors and supporters of the president outside, and then assume "democracy as been restored in Honduras".

Now Im not surprised many of the right have taken such a fast side to this coup against the current Honduran president because, after all he is left, he is close friends chavaz, and ofcourse there are many on the right who feel a duty ideologically. That doesnt make the side opposing the president any more right, or anymore of the speaker of the people.

You talk about this being the consensus of the politicians in Honduras, yet you blatantly ignore the supports and the consensus of the people.

The overthrown of the president was for the most part presumtious as the referendum was still in voting, as common sense would put it, unlikely to get through. At the end of the day this was still constitutionally democratically the president of Honduras, who was thrown out by the authority of other politicians in Honduras (with no agenda as folks here would put it) on the basis of speculation.

I dont like president Zelaya, I do feel he was pulling an undemocratic stunt by proposing an extended term, but like all frivoulous bills here and abroad, they never get through. At the end of the day it comes down to the consensus of both sides, not one.

[edit on 10-7-2009 by Southern Guardian]

reply posted on 10-7-2009 @ 05:48 PM by rich23

OK HOLD ON TO YOUR HATS... BREAKING NEWS means that perhaps I've been a little hasty.

Perhaps.

Here's the interesting development: The US is going to suspend aid to Honduras.

I have to say, that I did NOT expect.

The Government of the United States is conducting a complete review of all of its foreign assistance programs in order to determine how much of this assistance it could be legally obligated to suspend due to the events of June 28, the coup d'etat and the expulsion of President Manuel Zelaya. This is a careful and deliberate process

There's quite a lot of good information in this source.

And, like the author of that piece, I can't help wondering whether the fantastically un-diplomatic comments by (now ex-) foreigh miniseter Ortez might have had something to do with the []i]volte-face:

"I have negotiated with queers, prostitutes, leftists, blacks, whites. This is my job, I studied for it. I am not racially prejudiced. I like the little black sugar plantation worker who is president of the United States."

That is just spectacular. I am practically hugging myself with delight that someone should do something so, so wrong. It's like a comedy movie, but it's real!

So we'll see how this pans out. Maybe I was wrong. Maybe the US didn't have anything directly to do with the coup, but the Honduran military has such close ties to the US this is hard for me to believe. Maybe the US kept their embassy there because