Reading through this thread has actually made me feel good inside because I have taken such pleasure in reading both sides and it cracks me up. This
is without a doubt one of the funniest threads I've have come across in a while. I know it was probably not anyone's intention.
People from both sides of the argument appear to be genuine and sincere with their claims. That is what makes this thread so enjoyable to read
through.
There ARE questions that need to be answered from both sides.
I will address just one question to both sides and hope I can get a serious answer from both.
Obama was elected and is the current President of the USA. Why is the issue of his past still being questioned?
I ask in a very neutral tone and am not baiting or trolling. On the one hand, it seems like certain people have such a desire to defame Obama that
they will not let this issue go. On the other hand, WHY are people so adamant that he is lying about his past.
If this was originally used as a tactic to gain support for his opponents, why on earth are people STILL asking about his past after he has won the
election? And what is driving them to do so? What do people who question the legitimacy of the President actually want to achieve? I do not believe
this is simply for attention. There are MANY easier and less dangerous ways to bring attention to oneself. Could they actually be getting closer to
some sort of truth, or are they completely delusional?
Obama was born in Hawaii and is our President., page 5
privacy
reply posted on 14-7-2009 @ 08:42 AM by grover
reply to post by Dark Ghost
Simply put its a bunch of sour grapes, wishful thinking and a deliberate attempt to somehow delegitimize his as president... which won't happen.
It just makes them look like a bunch of idiots...
And they say we drink kool aid.
Simply put its a bunch of sour grapes, wishful thinking and a deliberate attempt to somehow delegitimize his as president... which won't happen.
It just makes them look like a bunch of idiots...
And they say we drink kool aid.
reply posted on 14-7-2009 @ 09:09 AM by whatukno
reply to post by Dark Ghost
There might be a couple of different reasons for this. Some obviously don't like the fact that Obama was elected POTUS. (for whatever reason) They seek to have him removed and think this must be the truth because someone told them it was.
If you look through the various threads you will see that none of these people have anything legitimate to point to that tells us that Obama was born anywhere else but Hawaii. They have used quotes taken out of context, blogs made by hardcore right wing conservative groups, hoaxed news articles and assumptions based on no facts whatsoever. It's all hastily choreographed, lased with insults, and on a whole, badly researched. Each argument has been shot down. The legitimate questions completely ignored.
The second even stranger reason might actually be, this is being perpetrated by people within the Obama administration themselves. If people are busy on this wild goose chase, they will turn a blind eye to what the President and his administration is actually doing. It would be a textbook case of Disinformation and Deflection.
[edit on 7/14/2009 by whatukno]
Obama was elected and is the current President of the USA. Why is the issue of his past still being questioned?
There might be a couple of different reasons for this. Some obviously don't like the fact that Obama was elected POTUS. (for whatever reason) They seek to have him removed and think this must be the truth because someone told them it was.
If you look through the various threads you will see that none of these people have anything legitimate to point to that tells us that Obama was born anywhere else but Hawaii. They have used quotes taken out of context, blogs made by hardcore right wing conservative groups, hoaxed news articles and assumptions based on no facts whatsoever. It's all hastily choreographed, lased with insults, and on a whole, badly researched. Each argument has been shot down. The legitimate questions completely ignored.
The second even stranger reason might actually be, this is being perpetrated by people within the Obama administration themselves. If people are busy on this wild goose chase, they will turn a blind eye to what the President and his administration is actually doing. It would be a textbook case of Disinformation and Deflection.
[edit on 7/14/2009 by whatukno]
reply posted on 15-7-2009 @ 02:09 AM by daddymax
reply to post by whatukno
You do realize that is NOT a birth certificate...don't you?
That, my friend is a certificate of LIVE BIRTH...
I CAN verify that Obama was born alive, as he is still alive today
WHY NOT produce the Vault Copy of his BIRTH CERTIFICATE?
That is what is being asked for...
Upon further looking, and comparing...they are the SAME document
1 fake, and 1 not...not a chance
BOTH are not a birth certificate...ask you mother for yours, check it out
[edit on 15-7-2009 by daddymax]
You do realize that is NOT a birth certificate...don't you?
That, my friend is a certificate of LIVE BIRTH...
I CAN verify that Obama was born alive, as he is still alive today
WHY NOT produce the Vault Copy of his BIRTH CERTIFICATE?
That is what is being asked for...
Upon further looking, and comparing...they are the SAME document
1 fake, and 1 not...not a chance
BOTH are not a birth certificate...ask you mother for yours, check it out
[edit on 15-7-2009 by daddymax]
reply posted on 15-7-2009 @ 02:28 AM by whatukno
reply to post by daddymax
I would ask my mother for a vault copy of my birth certificate, however she has been dead for the last 14 years.
A certificate of live birth is the standard birth certificate used throughout the country. I have used my certificate of live birth to get a drivers license, a social security card, a passport, even a library card.
Sorry but I have already debunked the COLB is not good enough Bull Dunk already. Besides privacy laws protect people from having to show such sensitive documents to every Tom Dick and Harry on the street. Obama is also protected by the same laws that he is forced to obey.
[edit on 7/15/2009 by whatukno]
I would ask my mother for a vault copy of my birth certificate, however she has been dead for the last 14 years.
A certificate of live birth is the standard birth certificate used throughout the country. I have used my certificate of live birth to get a drivers license, a social security card, a passport, even a library card.
Sorry but I have already debunked the COLB is not good enough Bull Dunk already. Besides privacy laws protect people from having to show such sensitive documents to every Tom Dick and Harry on the street. Obama is also protected by the same laws that he is forced to obey.
[edit on 7/15/2009 by whatukno]
reply posted on 16-7-2009 @ 05:38 PM by mcguyvermanolo
reply to post by whatukno
The "evidence" you submit is not the right evidence. Otherwise this matter would be resolved. It is not resolved because we are being presented with a substitute which will not and cannot substantiate Barry Soetoro's citizenship.
Question: What type of Government do we have in the USA?
A: Say the "Pledge of Allegiance" (and know that it is now forbidden in school to say it).
No where in the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, or the Declaration of Independence does
the word 'democracy' appear and it is NOT by accident. The Founding Fathers abhorred this idea. Democracy in action is a lynch mob. In a Republic, no one, no group, can deprive you of your GOD given Rights. The Constitution does not grant us our rights, it merely states what we are born here with.
You are witnessing just how brain washed by the 6 world wide Media Corporations you truly are... wake up. Your life depends on it.
Watch " The Money Masters", "Freedom to Fascism" , and "the Obama Deception" .
The "evidence" you submit is not the right evidence. Otherwise this matter would be resolved. It is not resolved because we are being presented with a substitute which will not and cannot substantiate Barry Soetoro's citizenship.
Question: What type of Government do we have in the USA?
A: Say the "Pledge of Allegiance" (and know that it is now forbidden in school to say it).
No where in the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, or the Declaration of Independence does
the word 'democracy' appear and it is NOT by accident. The Founding Fathers abhorred this idea. Democracy in action is a lynch mob. In a Republic, no one, no group, can deprive you of your GOD given Rights. The Constitution does not grant us our rights, it merely states what we are born here with.
You are witnessing just how brain washed by the 6 world wide Media Corporations you truly are... wake up. Your life depends on it.
Watch " The Money Masters", "Freedom to Fascism" , and "the Obama Deception" .
reply posted on 16-7-2009 @ 06:57 PM by whatukno
reply to post by mcguyvermanolo
oookk?
That was weird.
Anyway, Republicans and conservatives want to force Obama to show his long form because they want to do the same to every man woman and child in America. They want the power to stop you or me on the street and demand from us our papers and if we don't comply they want to haul us off to jail.
That's right, Birthers want the right to pick and choose what ID they feel is acceptable, they want the right to demand from anyone "Adequate Identification" and if they don't like your ID? They want the right to put you away for it.
Conservatives don't like the 4th amendment. It gets in their way. They want the right to search you or your home without a warrant, without probable cause and without even being a police officer. Just because they want that power. They might not like you in their neighborhood. So with the 4th amendment out of the way thanks to forcing Obama to show personal papers to the public without due process (which is what they want) They will just go about and start doing the same thing to everyone they find "Questionable."
oookk?
That was weird. Anyway, Republicans and conservatives want to force Obama to show his long form because they want to do the same to every man woman and child in America. They want the power to stop you or me on the street and demand from us our papers and if we don't comply they want to haul us off to jail.
That's right, Birthers want the right to pick and choose what ID they feel is acceptable, they want the right to demand from anyone "Adequate Identification" and if they don't like your ID? They want the right to put you away for it.
Conservatives don't like the 4th amendment. It gets in their way. They want the right to search you or your home without a warrant, without probable cause and without even being a police officer. Just because they want that power. They might not like you in their neighborhood. So with the 4th amendment out of the way thanks to forcing Obama to show personal papers to the public without due process (which is what they want) They will just go about and start doing the same thing to everyone they find "Questionable."
reply posted on 16-7-2009 @ 07:16 PM by argentus
reply to post by Dark Ghost
I'll take a stab at that question, DarkGhost, and I think it's a fair and intelligent question.
These issues were raised, in a legal framework, prior to the election of President Obama. Several months prior. Those lawsuits, as well as successive ones, were ruled by the presiding courts as not having standing to have the suits heard. It was ruled that only Congress has the right to bring such cases.
Thus, the questions still remain, unheard, evidence unheard.
It IS funny, and I join you in appreciating the humor of it, even though I participate. Both sides are determined and give no quarter. It's really not much of a debate, as it's unstructured like most of the conspiracies here.
My opinion -- much of it revolves around a lack of a truly neutral source of information. There is WMD on one extreme, that has some good info, but taints itself with rhetoric, and Factcheck and others on the other side that does the same thing.
The U.S. government appears to sit on their numb behinds and seems to not want to risk their influential positions by even hinting at getting involved.
There, that's in, in my opinion, in a nutshell.
I'll take a stab at that question, DarkGhost, and I think it's a fair and intelligent question.
These issues were raised, in a legal framework, prior to the election of President Obama. Several months prior. Those lawsuits, as well as successive ones, were ruled by the presiding courts as not having standing to have the suits heard. It was ruled that only Congress has the right to bring such cases.
Thus, the questions still remain, unheard, evidence unheard.
It IS funny, and I join you in appreciating the humor of it, even though I participate. Both sides are determined and give no quarter. It's really not much of a debate, as it's unstructured like most of the conspiracies here.
My opinion -- much of it revolves around a lack of a truly neutral source of information. There is WMD on one extreme, that has some good info, but taints itself with rhetoric, and Factcheck and others on the other side that does the same thing.
The U.S. government appears to sit on their numb behinds and seems to not want to risk their influential positions by even hinting at getting involved.
There, that's in, in my opinion, in a nutshell.
reply posted on 16-7-2009 @ 07:25 PM by whatukno
reply to post by argentus
That above I have to agree with.
I just don't understand why Birthers don't just pester their representatives for this information. Congress can do something about it as they would have standing.
My opinion -- much of it revolves around a lack of a truly neutral source of information. There is WMD on one extreme, that has some good info, but taints itself with rhetoric, and Factcheck and others on the other side that does the same thing.
The U.S. government appears to sit on their numb behinds and seems to not want to risk their influential positions by even hinting at getting involved.
There, that's in, in my opinion, in a nutshell.
That above I have to agree with.
I just don't understand why Birthers don't just pester their representatives for this information. Congress can do something about it as they would have standing.
reply posted on 16-7-2009 @ 07:35 PM by argentus
reply to post by whatukno
I figured we weren't too far apart on some areas, Whatyoukno.....
Agree that Congress should get off their duffs and make some headway to settle the questions once and for all. Either of us or anyone can only speculate why this is so. Who has the sand to raise the question in Congress? yep. Nobody. Not even The Paul (praise be his name)
[edit username misspelling]
[edit on 16/7/09 by argentus]
I figured we weren't too far apart on some areas, Whatyoukno.....
Agree that Congress should get off their duffs and make some headway to settle the questions once and for all. Either of us or anyone can only speculate why this is so. Who has the sand to raise the question in Congress? yep. Nobody. Not even The Paul (praise be his name)
[edit username misspelling]
[edit on 16/7/09 by argentus]
reply posted on 23-7-2009 @ 02:29 AM by whatukno
reply to post by wutone
The reason they let this conspiracy flourish is so they can do whatever they like and the hypercritical people will be distracted searching the dust in Kenya for Obama's placenta remains.
Why kill a good distraction?
The reason they let this conspiracy flourish is so they can do whatever they like and the hypercritical people will be distracted searching the dust in Kenya for Obama's placenta remains.
Why kill a good distraction?
reply posted on 23-7-2009 @ 02:33 AM by WhatTheory
His birth certificate issue is really a moot point because technically Obama cannot be a natural born citizen due to Obama's father not being a U.S.
citizen at the time of his birth.
Just because Obama might or might not have a Hawiian birth certificate is moot. Whether he has one or not does nothing to prove that he is a natural born citizen which is required by the Constitution.
Both parents must be citizens in order for Obama to be considered a natural born citizen. Obama's father had citizenship in either Kenya or in Britain at the time of his birth so Obama technically cannot be a natural born citizen hense Obama is illegally occupying the Presidency.
Defining natural born citizen
This paragraph really hits home:
Just because Obama might or might not have a Hawiian birth certificate is moot. Whether he has one or not does nothing to prove that he is a natural born citizen which is required by the Constitution.
Both parents must be citizens in order for Obama to be considered a natural born citizen. Obama's father had citizenship in either Kenya or in Britain at the time of his birth so Obama technically cannot be a natural born citizen hense Obama is illegally occupying the Presidency.
Defining natural born citizen
Bingham had explained that to be born within the allegiance of the United States the parents, or more precisely, the father, must not owe allegiance to some other foreign sovereignty
This paragraph really hits home:
What better way to insure attachment to the country then to require the President to have inherited his American citizenship through his American father and not through a foreign father. Any child can be born anywhere in the country and removed by their father to be raised in his native country. The risks would be for the child to return in later life to reside in this country bringing with him foreign influences and intrigues, thus, making such a citizen indistinguishable from a naturalized citizen.
reply posted on 23-7-2009 @ 11:45 AM by wutone
reply to post by whatukno
But the distraction has the potential to undermine his authority.
All it takes is the right lawsuit from the right person to uncover a whole bunch of other stuff while searching for a certificate to tarnish Obama's image.
But the distraction has the potential to undermine his authority.
All it takes is the right lawsuit from the right person to uncover a whole bunch of other stuff while searching for a certificate to tarnish Obama's image.
reply posted on 23-7-2009 @ 12:00 PM by whatukno
reply to post by wutone
The people that are searching this and trying to dig up his past by going to the SCOTUS for answers are barking up the wrong tree.
They should be directing their efforts to Congress not SCOTUS.
Dig hard enough on anyone and you will find something that no one will like.
Like that classic Beatles lyric: Everybody's got something to hide, 'cept for me and my monkey.
The people that are searching this and trying to dig up his past by going to the SCOTUS for answers are barking up the wrong tree.
They should be directing their efforts to Congress not SCOTUS.
Dig hard enough on anyone and you will find something that no one will like.
Like that classic Beatles lyric: Everybody's got something to hide, 'cept for me and my monkey.
reply posted on 24-7-2009 @ 11:58 PM by dodadoom
reply to post by Dark Ghost
I can tell you why.
We're sore losers.
Just like the dems in the last two elections were!
Possibly justified, btw.
Except this election was won fair and square(if that's even possible),
hence the anger and the grasping at any straw.....
we wont be happy again till palin is king!
I can tell you why.
We're sore losers.
Just like the dems in the last two elections were!
Possibly justified, btw.
Except this election was won fair and square(if that's even possible),
hence the anger and the grasping at any straw.....
we wont be happy again till palin is king!
reply posted on 25-7-2009 @ 12:47 AM by dodadoom
reply to post by Southern Guardian
True! For obvious reasons....
All I can say to the doubters is be patriotic and support your president!
Same thing we've heard for the last 8 years.
To not be is suicidal for the country, but I dont think we really even care anymore.
So long as we got our burgers, beer, racin' and ball games.
We are just too flabbergasted and disgusted by all of it anymore, maybe.
Welcome to the united states of contraction! Oh no, wash my mouth out! Thats not patriotic!
Edit: maybe its the united states of corruption I meant!
Just seems to be all fine and dandy, and even lawfull!
[edit on 25-7-2009 by dodadoom]
True! For obvious reasons....
All I can say to the doubters is be patriotic and support your president!
Same thing we've heard for the last 8 years.
To not be is suicidal for the country, but I dont think we really even care anymore.
So long as we got our burgers, beer, racin' and ball games.
We are just too flabbergasted and disgusted by all of it anymore, maybe.
Welcome to the united states of contraction! Oh no, wash my mouth out! Thats not patriotic!
Edit: maybe its the united states of corruption I meant!
Just seems to be all fine and dandy, and even lawfull!
[edit on 25-7-2009 by dodadoom]
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