How did officials know most of Flight 93 was buried?

reply to post by ATH911


Your thought processes amaze me at times....

On MOST crashes, they focus on the black boxes....because those provide the data to show what was going on with the airplane. No one cares if they find the galley stove or the airfones.

I'll just post this report from the Civil Aeronautics Board on another similar crash of Northwest Airlines Flight 710:



Also the reports and accounts of how the crater was found:

Northwest Airlines Flight 710 (Lockheed Electra): high speed crash into farm field, plane and passengers reduced to small parts scattered or buried, few remains found. Only seven of the plane's 63 victims were identified.

The plane and its final explosion blew out a smoldering crater 50 ft. wide and 25 ft. deep. Civil Aeronautics Board crash specialists found empty, neatly laced shoes, a stray airmail letter, a bloodstained blouse, a prayer book lying open at the Litany of the Saints ("Lord have mercy on us..."). Source: "Why This Failure..." Time Magazine, March 28, 1960

There is a crater--it appears to be quite deep...perhaps 35 feet deep. There is thick smoke. I can barely make out the twisted wreckage of a large aircraft. The plane appears to have slammed itself nose first into the ground. I don't see how anyone could possibly have survived this kind of impact. As I look around in the snow I see slivers of silver/green metal, spilled fuel, and debris. I see no bodies...only indistinguishable remnants of human remains. Here is the largest identifiable piece of humanity: a part of a backbone that is still connected to a kidney. These people...these poor people. What must have happened? How long must they have known their inescapable fate? The wing and engine we first found must have been 3 or 4 miles away. I've never seen anything like this before...

...For days the Graves and Registration Troops continued to sift through the 4 or 5 acres of the wreckage, often mistaking pieces of pink airplane insulation for frozen pieces of human flesh. The smell of charred bodies, once frozen--then thawed--remains with me today. I came home from the crash site that first night and threw away my clothes. We reported the story to ABC, CBS, NBC, Canada and Mexico. A Two-inch communication cable was laid by Bell Telephone all the way from Cannelton to the crash site. Ultimately 8 or 9 coffins were provided to hold the recovered human remains of the 63 passengers and 6 crew members. All were buried in Greenwood Cemetery, but, in truth, only 2 of them actually held any contents at all. The other 6 were empty--symbolic gestures of grief. Source


It struck a field at 618 MPH. Mud, dirt, grass, shrubs and mottled snow were tossed 250 ft into the air. The debris fell back around a muddy crater forty feet wide. From this gaping wound in the earth poured smouldering smoke. There were pieces of wreckage around the perfectly formed rim. Some other metal fragments were hurled fifteen hundred feet away. But the one hundred foot fuselage itself had disappeared entirely.

In the crater, buried twelve feet under this smoking cauldron, was what was left of Northwest Airlines flight 710 - and the 33 men, 21 woman and 8 children and 1 infant aboard.
From "The Electra Story," 1963

wtc7lies.googlepages.com...
www.perrycountyindiana.org...

But I guess this will all be hand-waved away as usual, because, once again, it just does not fit with the preconceived notions of a few.

[edit on 7/10/2009 by GenRadek]

Originally posted by SPreston
reply to post by ATH911

 

How did officials know most of Flight 93 was buried underground?
They read the official script.

SPreston, I have to hand it to you... you do have some of the best one-liners here!

After numerous threads by ATH911, all addressing the alleged Flight UA93, I've not yet seen one government loyalist prove how the plane buried itself.

All I have seen is contradictions amongst the government loyalists about how much of the plane was buried and to what depth it was buried. Their belief in the event is telling.

Originally posted by exponent
Yet again I come across another perfect example of bias in truther minds. Never mind that the CVR and FDR were actually recovered, apparently the media not talking about debris at the same time is proof.

What do you think would be easier, staging two small half black boxes, or 48tons of plane debris underground?

Really? "proof"? Are you genuinely stating that because the media didn't talk about the debris that was being excavated then that eliminates any other possibility and proves that 911 was an inside job?

Well the bulk of the plane was in wonder where it all went after the crash, so I'd think it would be really newsworthy when they supposedly found where it all went, especially if it was found deep underground which is unprecedented. Don't you?

even though their theory is little more than "911 was an inside job".

You guys really sound ignorant when you say stupid stuff like that.

How do you explain the massive amounts of evidence surrounding this crash?

Show me one piece that was realistically un-stageable.

The fields full of debris

Where?!

[edit on 10-7-2009 by ATH911]

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
How did they know that most of it was buried? They didnt...till they started digging.

Why did they start digging? Because witnesses pointed out where they saw the plane hit, they found a hole with pieces of wreckage on top of it and all around it.

Can you please show me this "hole" in that Shanksville field? I only see a classic bowl-shaped crater.

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
Your thought processes amaze me at times....

Your lack of comprehension and common sense amazes me at times...

No one cares if they find the galley stove or the airfones.

Let me explain to what I'm getting at that even a preschooler can understand, since you obviously have trouble following.

Say a 757 crashed in the ocean, but the recovery crews could only find about 15% of the plane in the few days after the crash, minus the black boxes. The rest of the plane would be deemed MIA.

Then days later they found the rest of the missing plane, along with the black boxes.

Do you really think the news is only going to report they just found the recorders and not the rest of the plane which would account for the BULK of it being recovered and would probably be were most of the passenger remains are and their luggage/belongings?

[edit on 10-7-2009 by ATH911]

Originally posted by GenRadek
But I guess this will all be hand-waved away as usual, because, once again, it just does not fit with the preconceived notions of a few.

Not sure how a different crash proves another one, but saw a lot of description about that crash that suggests the Shanksville one was fake, like actually finding BLOOD at the scene, along with photos that look like . . . well you know, a plane crash:



aviation-safety.net...

reply to post by ATH911

Do you really think the news is only going to report they just found the recorders and not the rest of the plane which would account for the BULK of it being recovered and would probably be were most of the passenger remains are and their luggage/belongings?

You slay me, you really do. Either you are being willfully ignorant or you have a exceptionally short memory recall. Numerous times, links to the articles about Flight 93 have been posted. Articles which state how much of the plane was recovered, parts of the plane that were recovered, that human remains for each of the passengers had been identified, personal items that were recovered.....each and every thing that you say in the above quote has been talked about in the media and on ATS......and appearantly, you have missed them.

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
Articles which state how much of the plane was recovered

This was reported well after they supposedly started finding most of the plane that was supposedly buried under the ground.

parts of the plane that were recovered

The only debris they reported that was supposedly buried was coincidentally of the only two photos of supposed dug-up debris; the engine scrap and the black boxes.

that human remains for each of the passengers had been identified,

This was reported well after they supposedly started finding most of the plane that was supposedly buried under the ground.

personal items that were recovered

What personal items were reportedly found buried with the rest of the alleged 80% of the plane buried?

each and every thing that you say in the above quote has been talked about in the media and on ATS......and appearantly, you have missed them.

No, I know they've been mentioned in the media. You are just stupid to think I didn't know.

It's just funny that not only when the bulk of the plane is supposedly found, but found in the most surprising place for such a large amount of a large plane to come to rest, it's not reported where it was found until a year after the alleged indecent. It's pretty obvious it took them so long to report this because it never actually happened.

reply to post by ATH911


Did you read the CAB report as well? Specifically how they describe the crater.

I see you hooked onto the wing that FELL OFF earlier, but yet you ignored the crater. Are you aware that in that incident, the wing fell off? You showed the wing, good job, now get to the crater where the entire FUSELAGE impacted vertically. Get to the part about how the debris was still smouldering and burning INSIDE and UNDERNEATH the surface of the crater. I'll wait.

EDIT: Fix Link


[edit on 7/13/2009 by GenRadek]

reply to post by GenRadek

That's great. Can you now show evidence to prove the claim that most of Flight 93 was buried? We've only been waiting a couple of weeks now.


[edit on 13-7-2009 by ATH911]

reply to post by ATH911


I already said before a while ago, I personally dont know. Were you not paying attention? (as usual)

However I would rather go on the words of those that WERE there and that were actively removing debris.

'"In a crash like this we can expect extreme fragmentation," said Dennis Dirkmaat, a forensic anthropologist and professor at Mercyhurst College in Erie, Pa., who was part of one of several search teams combing the site. Most of the pieces that remain of the jet are small. The biggest are the size of a telephone book, said Ed Persuhn, a member of the nearby Hooversville Volunteer Fire Department, which responded to the crash. Many of the smaller fragments - those the size of a dime or smaller - are covered by the dirt left from a huge cloud created by the plane's impact. Most of the airliner debris is contained within a 100-square-yard area around the crater. A secondary debris field stretches for a square mile beyond that. Two days after the crash, investigators broadened their search to a community eight miles away, where residents found bits of wreckage. That wreckage probably was spread by the cloud created when the plane crashed and dispersed by a 10 mph southeasterly wind, Crowley said. Some smaller pieces and papers belonging to passengers might have been carried even farther, Crowley said National Transportation Safety Board officials have told him.'[14]

* The flight data recorder was found on September 13, around 4:50 p.m, in the main crater at the crash site.[15][16]
* On September 14, the cockpit voice recorder was located, buried 12 feet in the ground.[17]

Most of the debris at the crash site was very small. Pieces found include an engine part.

Debris site

So let me guess, are you still looking for whole pieces of the aircraft? Even when the investigators say and understand that in a crash like this you are getting tiny pieces?

The reason I posted the other crash is so that you can get an idea of how a crash like this would look like. Sure a lot of the plane will remain in the crater, in itty bitty pieces. Just like the NW flight, which even said that debris was still burning underneath the crater days later. I'm surprised its still not clicking for you up there.


EDIT to add quote and link


[edit on 7/13/2009 by GenRadek]

Originally posted by ATH911
Gavron apparently thinks planes bury themselves all the time when they hit the ground as often as planes sink under water when they crash in the ocean.

Actually, your post made it seem as if the plane was swallowed up, as if it sank in the ocean....which it did not. Perhaps if you did some research on the acoual impact site, you would learn what it used to be.

Plus, you also cleverly avoided answering the question as to whether the ground looked completely undisturbed. Funny how you missed that one, ULTIMA1....

Originally posted by ATH911

That's great. Can you now show evidence to prove the claim that most of Flight 93 was buried? We've only been waiting a couple of weeks now.

Hang on....isnt that what you are claiming in the OP??

Asking how officials knew it was buried? Are you now saying it wasnt buried?