Good secret societies?

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posted on May, 7 2004 @ 08:27 AM
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There was a post about an anti-mason party that got me thinking. I did not want to take over that thread with my question, so I decided to start a new one.

Everyone always talks about the Freemasons, Illuminati, what have you; always talking about the evil secret organizations. Well, my question is, are there any good secret organizations out there? Ones that are formed either to oppose ones such as the Illuminati, or that are just out there in general. Mainly I'm wondering if they are out there to oppose the Illuminati/Freemasons/New World Order.

I'd like to think that there are such organizations, other than some backwoods redneck militia. If evil people can do it, why can't good people? It's a grim outlook if we're always looking at the evil side of things. There's always a good and a bad, isn't there?

Does anyone have any information, facts, criticisms, speculation, etc, that they could offer? Feel free.

Edit: I'm sorry if this has already been discussed, I really didn't know what to search for.

[Edited on 7-5-2004 by Faisca]




posted on May, 7 2004 @ 10:18 AM
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The most famous of the secret societies that opposed Masonry and the Illuminati was the Society of Jesus, also known as the Jesuits. The Jesuits' primary goal on the continent at that time was to eradicate Illuminism, and the war of the secret societies in the 18th century is a fascinating but obscure subject.
Even though the Jesuits won the battle, they lost the war. They managed to eliminate the actual Order of the Illuminati, but they were unable to destroy Illuminist ideas, and the dictatorship of the Church was eventually abolished, even in Rome.
Today, neither the Jesuits nor the various Masonic Rites are secret any more, and all these groups have websites.

Fiat Lvx.



posted on May, 7 2004 @ 10:25 AM
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What else would a secret society be good for, other than evil?
If you think about it, thats the whole reason these people are so secretive, so they can do what they want without the people knowing. If the people know than they want allow something evil like the illuminati or whatever to exist.


[Edited on 7-5-2004 by Eternal]



posted on May, 7 2004 @ 10:25 AM
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Well there groups like that , supposed "secret" good
societies that enhance patriotism and moral values and family I belong to the knights of Columbus , it is very Christian but in this site alot of people place it in the same sense as the Masons and has nothing to do with them , it is kind of antimasonic, it is main work is helping families stick together , increase patriotism and perform charity work , I am a member and anyone who is a good standing Catholic can join , meaning you are not divorced or living in sin and a Catholic , it is easy to lie and join in a heartbeat , no one would question it and one can easily see from the inside how it works on the inside .

There are rituals and secrets but it is all very Christian , it was created to attract gentleman and thier spouses and young people who would otherwise join Masonic lodges.

I hope I answered your question , there are others but I cannot really talk about them since I am not a member of those , I know little of what goes on .

LEON



posted on May, 7 2004 @ 10:28 AM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light
The most famous of the secret societies that opposed Masonry and the Illuminati was the Society of Jesus, also known as the Jesuits. The Jesuits' primary goal on the continent at that time was to eradicate Illuminism, ...

Was it the fear of rational thinking that fueled the Church opposition, through the Jesuits, to Masonry and Illuminati?
What is the Church's major problem with these two groups?

And, they so disliked Masonry, that they created a Catholic substitute: K of C.?



posted on May, 7 2004 @ 10:36 AM
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Originally posted by Faisca

[deletia]

Everyone always talks about the Freemasons, Illuminati, what have you; always talking about the evil secret organizations. Well, my question is, are there any good secret organizations out there? Ones that are formed either to oppose ones such as the Illuminati, or that are just out there in general. Mainly I'm wondering if they are out there to oppose the Illuminati/Freemasons/New World Order.

[deletia]


Well, at the risk of sounding like a broken record... Masonry is a good secret society. I give you my word that it is. I'm also a 32nd degree Scottish Rite Mason, which I know some people think is important (Freemasons know that it is not).

I am particularly hurt by the KofC who wrote to say that he thinks the KofC are anti-Masonic. This is just not true... the KofCs and the Masons have essentially the same goals, except that the KofC are expressly Catholic, while Freemasonry allows men of any faith, provided they believe in a Supreme Being.

Once again, just to make this extremely evident: Masonry is a good organisation, there is nothing sinister in it, and I give you my word of honour that this is so.



posted on May, 7 2004 @ 10:50 AM
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It was not they the Church , just some individual , a Preist wanted a franternity that would help stick families more together in his town , the lodges were just for the guys and spent time away from home , you do not know
the history of the masons trying to destroy the Catholic intitutions to secularize it, it is not hearsay , this happened in Mexico big time with the Ameircan backed Masons , it would amaze you it is all historical fact , many people were killed under the rain of Benito Juarez masonic rein and even masonic literature exists on the implimentation, The Cristeros of the 1920' was a horrible time , my grandfather had to hide in a basement when he got married in a religious ceremony , death or imprisonment for both men and women for anyone practicing Cathosism in Mexico in the 1920's and this was an open known idea backed directly by the Masons . When the USA took half of north america , we wanted to continue to Mexico city but found out that the strong Catholisism was to large and rigid to be able to control as for an institution and people so we backed off , that was clearly written as a subject by our conties leadership , they even mention masonic ideals in politics and power of the time . The idea of all that troucle in Mexico since Benito Juarez was to destroy the Catholic church or weaken it successfully in order to facilitate a takeover like it did in Texas , this was not a fight for independence by vetarns of our civil war heroes, These guys settled land that was given to anyone by the Mexican Government , this was taken advantage of by the groups mentioned , embeded by our government , this was a planned invasion and annexation. I am not saying it was a bad thing , I am american and I am proud that all this land belongs to the USA but that is how things went on in north america , do not read history books , read diaries and letters of important and non important people of the time and your eyes will be opened like the pill in the matrix .

Unsupported paranoia just causes us more stress and anxiety , do your reading then have a more educated opinion.

I know not all masonic organizations are not the same and are not as sinister as people think but there are some very interesting core groups that are what the suspicions say they are , I had a little talk with an uncle who is a millionare and belongs to one of the big bad wolfs , he joined so he would not be eatened , I cannot tel you details because of a promise.



posted on May, 7 2004 @ 10:55 AM
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The Knights of Columbus is not directly anti Masonic , I kind of went too far for that , it is kind of the glue to keep the guy in the family together. My wealthy uncles are never home but hang out in the lodge bar , get the picture ? That was the original intention , not directly opposed or even put in writing by the Order's constitution. That ]was not the founder's intention , it is a parish thing.



posted on May, 7 2004 @ 11:23 AM
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The Jesuits were never a secret society in the terms of what we know , it is a religious order that evolved in many ways , the Carmelite nuns can be called a secret society , they cannnot go in and out freely, someitimes they can go out for a special purpose , no one can just go in and see, you cannot even see their faces , it is all by choice they can quit anytime they want I had a friend in one of the Carmelite cloisture, she said it was alot of prayers and taking care of babies of unwedmothers or orphane babies .

The Jesuits in Mexico were kicked out of that country , the reason through diaries of people not related to the event is an eye opener as to why , very related to the subject , they protected the indians from abuses from government and other clergy .
very intersting information from the people who actually lived in those times.

LEON



posted on May, 7 2004 @ 11:31 AM
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Originally posted by leonbm
My wealthy uncles are never home but hang out in the lodge bar , get the picture ?


I don't think its necessarily because they were members of the Knights. Virtually every Catholic Church I know has a Catholic club or whatever nearby so members can go for a drink when they want.



posted on May, 7 2004 @ 11:42 AM
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Yeah but I did not want to mention that I was invited to my Uncle's lodge , with very high powered members, some you know and love from the media , they tried to get me in as a member so I was invited to one of their social gahterings , well this guy party was full of hookers and I cannot disclose what was going on openly but moral values are not always the forte' when
some groups get together , drugs of white powder were distributed by the girls . One of the ex-hooker girls is my fiancee, she was 16 at the time when she worked at those parties , she is 22 now and found God 2 years ago . We have a very moral relationship probably too prudish but now very wholesome and family oriented ,
she cannot beleive how many married men participate in those activities in those places.

She can attest on what goes on in some of the upper echeleons of the organizations but I know it is not all of them . That is what the priest was trying to do , is give them a place of different environment . Got to think a little to understand this. Nothing sinister though.

these are not just some Irish pubs where daughter can join dad.



posted on May, 7 2004 @ 11:46 AM
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i have a question... if it's a good organization why be secret?



posted on May, 7 2004 @ 12:00 PM
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Not really secret, anyone can come in , kind of like boy scouts for adults , rituals ,actually special religious and stuff exist making attractive to alot of guys like me , no special prerequists exist , just be part of the flock in good standing you can even lie and not even beleive in God and no one would quesion you , you can even move up in the ranks depending how much charity work you do , it is a fraternity , like all fraternities it has those attractive rituals and secrets not really awesome secrets but enough to give it an aura . Without all of that it would just be another boring charity organization , Dads go the the meeting and social gatherings with there baby boys and girls on their laps sometimes because mom is a twork or busy , no bad things happen that is why they bring their kids , the knights even have offshoot groups for boys and girls so they can get help from the adults in their activities like sports , bonfires , dances etc... just family/God oriented. Why don't you just lie yourself into one and see what goes on, you will either be bored or hooked on charity work , I never get bored of the dances and bonfires, hahaha, I met my fiancee in one of the youth bonfires .

LEON



posted on May, 7 2004 @ 12:30 PM
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Originally posted by cmdrkeenkid
i have a question... if it's a good organization why be secret?


Well, *if* there are evil societies, like the illuminati, then any society created to oppose them would need to work in secrecy.

Mission Impossible team (tv show), Man From Uncle... that sort of thing



posted on May, 7 2004 @ 12:51 PM
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Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
Was it the fear of rational thinking that fueled the Church opposition, through the Jesuits, to Masonry and Illuminati?
What is the Church's major problem with these two groups?


You mentioned fear of rationalistic thinking, which I believe is a prime component. The entire episode must be viewed in its historical context, keeping in mind that today’s Roman Catholic Church is a very different organization from what it once was.
Today, it is a simply another Christian denomination. 500 years ago, it was a brutal political power, merciless in its handling of dissidents. This is why there were “secret societies”. Not because they were up to no good, but because to organize to oppose such a monstrous tyranny required absolute secrecy if one wanted to escape the dungeon, torture rack, and fiery stake.
The Church controlled practically every aspect of life. It decided which books were to be published, and which were forbidden to be read. It decided what religious dogma was to be promulgated, and which were to be punished. It decided on whom was to ascend to thrones, and rule the people in accordance with its own “infallible” dictum.
The Renaissance was the first strike against this despotism born from the union of Church and State, and was the precursor to the Enlightenment, which woke western civilization from the slumber of the Dark Ages. The Enlightenment (nor enlightened organizations such as Masonry and Illuminati) did not threaten the Church’s legitimate place in the world, which is to minister to its adherents. But it did threaten the Church’s intrusion into people’s individual liberties.
The Roman Church had launched a propaganda campaign attempting to discredit Copernicus (who did not publish his findings during his life because he knew it would place him in mortal danger), and had persecuted Galileo. Galileo would have been burned had he not publicly recanted his findings that the earth moves in an elliptical orbit around the sun, and even then, he was forced to live the remainder of is life under house arrest.
But Galileo was tame when compared to Church’s opposition during Enlightenment. The celebrated Voltaire is an excellent example. That Divine Infidel gave no quarter to superstition and tyranny in any form, and continually championed the cause of human liberty. These were the ideas behind Freemasonry.



And, they so disliked Masonry, that they created a Catholic substitute: K of C.?


The KofC is primarily an American invention, but does appear to have been established in reaction to American Catholics joining Masonic Lodges. They are superficially similar, both in degree structure and ritual, but teach radically different philosophies.
Masonry continues to champion the individual, proclaiming that the individual is superior to all institutions, and not they to him; that institutions exist to serve the individual, and not vice versa. That no religion has the authority to tell man what he must believe, that this is a matter between the individual and God alone. In contrast, the KofC pledge themselves to perpetual allegiance to the Church, and its teachings.

Fiat Lvx.




[Edited on 7-5-2004 by Masonic Light]



posted on May, 7 2004 @ 01:07 PM
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Wow thanks for all the info and discussion =)


Originally posted by glee

Originally posted by cmdrkeenkid
i have a question... if it's a good organization why be secret?


Well, *if* there are evil societies, like the illuminati, then any society created to oppose them would need to work in secrecy.

Mission Impossible team (tv show), Man From Uncle... that sort of thing


Basically yeah, my question was about organizations that work against the Illuminati or other evil organizations (sorry about teh Freemason thing, I don't really know what to believe about them). To do so, they'd have to be secret as well, or else the Illuminati or whoever could just destroy them in some way. I'm talking like a Men in Black or Hellboy type organization (but not so far fetched, just that they work for good against evil).

This is a good discussion, thanks again.



posted on May, 7 2004 @ 01:45 PM
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The Melchezedik Order, there are many watchers of the evil who when they go overboard tend to get rid of the problem in secret.



posted on May, 7 2004 @ 01:50 PM
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I am actually preparing to join one. I am looking forward to it. Most societies are good and very interesting to join. I was also looking for good societies. Just look them up over the internet.



posted on May, 7 2004 @ 01:58 PM
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Originally posted by GrndLkNatv
The Melchezedik Order, there are many watchers of the evil who when they go overboard tend to get rid of the problem in secret.


Hey GrndLkNatv do you have any more info on these guys? I'll look them up on google, but it'd be cool if u had some links or info to give me. That sounds cool.



posted on May, 9 2004 @ 01:05 AM
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Originally posted by Eternal
What else would a secret society be good for, other than evil?


Originally posted by cmdrkeenkid
i have a question... if it's a good organization why be secret?

In the eyes of most secret societies they are for good at least for the good of themselves & their kind. I also think that some may have beliefs that are ahead or behind the mainstream society or at least they don't fit in with mainsteam beliefs or laws thus they have to keep them secret because the rest of society can't handle it.

Maybe not a very good analogy, but for a long time gays had to go to secret clubs and keep themselves a secret or they would be prosecuted by the mainstrream society. At that time the public would have believed that they were evil, but I think most of us today don't believe that at all.

Now that I think about it, I think allot of secret societies have different beliefs about sex & sexuality. Many secret groups are just for having kinky sex which sometimes is frowned upon by mainstream society. Swingers clubs is one that comes to mind. Then there's the ones that like to marry young, have multiple wives. And on & on.

I think our mainstream society is so frigging puritan, that it forces people that don't agree to go underground or become secret.

Personally I'd be more worried about the people who can't deal with the fact that secret societies exists, and they think they have to go after them & bring them into mainstream beliefs, then the secret societies themselves.





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